Modifié par MegaSovereign, 26 mars 2012 - 04:37 .
Lord Aesir wrote...
No, the Reapers don't harvest synthetics but they clearly kill them off. Considering the synthetics Javik mentioned aren't still around, I assume they were wiped out. An A.I. that threatens the Reaper's goals of allowing organic life to continue would certainly make their hit list. Why would the Catalyst preserve organic species as Reapers if it was omnicidal?o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Um, that's a pretty obvious anwser. The A.I. was stopped.o Ventus wrote...
Ethical wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
Challenge, find me actual evidence of synthetics rebelling against their creators. No, the geth do not count, since they didn't "rebel", they retaliated like any organic would.
To be fair, the starchild explained that it has occured in previous cycles and as such his solution was....well it was that circular logic. You don't need actual evidence, the starchild said it happened in the past and unless we have a time machine (don't get any ideas marc/casey) then we just have to take the writers word for it.
Except it obviously has never happened, since organics still exist.
If a theoretical AI so hellbent on destroying organics actually DID come to fruition, how in the hell do the turians, salarians, humans, asari, krogan, etc exist?
Stopped by what? The Reapers? They can't harvest synthetics, and the Catalyst has never mentioned killing any god-powerful AI monstrosity?
Have you never once stopped and though that maybe the retarded Catalyst was the all-powerful AI that everyone is so scared of?
Very true.MegaSovereign wrote...
It's also worth noting that the Catalyst is not God. He underestimates Shepard and was surprised that Shepard made it that far.
Organics vs Synthetics issue could be a simple miscalculation. Or it's all based on statistics and simulations...like how the Salarians decided to create the genophage just based on the possibility of a dominating Krogan Empire.
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best. They leave only those they could thoroughly control like the Keepers and Collectors, of the advanced species.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
No, the Reapers don't harvest synthetics but they clearly kill them off. Considering the synthetics Javik mentioned aren't still around, I assume they were wiped out. An A.I. that threatens the Reaper's goals of allowing organic life to continue would certainly make their hit list. Why would the Catalyst preserve organic species as Reapers if it was omnicidal?o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Um, that's a pretty obvious anwser. The A.I. was stopped.o Ventus wrote...
Ethical wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
Challenge, find me actual evidence of synthetics rebelling against their creators. No, the geth do not count, since they didn't "rebel", they retaliated like any organic would.
To be fair, the starchild explained that it has occured in previous cycles and as such his solution was....well it was that circular logic. You don't need actual evidence, the starchild said it happened in the past and unless we have a time machine (don't get any ideas marc/casey) then we just have to take the writers word for it.
Except it obviously has never happened, since organics still exist.
If a theoretical AI so hellbent on destroying organics actually DID come to fruition, how in the hell do the turians, salarians, humans, asari, krogan, etc exist?
Stopped by what? The Reapers? They can't harvest synthetics, and the Catalyst has never mentioned killing any god-powerful AI monstrosity?
Have you never once stopped and though that maybe the retarded Catalyst was the all-powerful AI that everyone is so scared of?
Those same synthetics Javik says his race was destroying when the Reapers invaded?
You sure that isn't why they don't exist anymore?
Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 mars 2012 - 04:42 .
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
o Ventus wrote...
Those same synthetics Javik says his race was destroying when the Reapers invaded?
You sure that isn't why they don't exist anymore?
MegaSovereign wrote...
It's also worth noting that the Catalyst is not God. He underestimates Shepard and was surprised that Shepard made it that far.
Organics vs Synthetics issue could be a simple miscalculation. Or it's all based on statistics and simulations...like how the Salarians decided to create the genophage just based on the possibility of a dominating Krogan Empire.
I'd choose Destroy everytime if it didn't kill off the Geth. I guess they had to balance it out some way.
o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
Ethical wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
Those same synthetics Javik says his race was destroying when the Reapers invaded?
You sure that isn't why they don't exist anymore?
I have to ask, since you've been asking a lot of questions, what is your point if you do succeed in proving him wrong?
The starchild told us there was conflict between organics and synthetics because synthetics rebel against their creators. Javik reinforces this with his own cycle story.
Now these are things the writers laid down as cannon and truth. So I ask again, what is your point? That synthetics and organics can co-exist with no ill-harm? Well the writers of Mass Effect disagree and that is final.
I don't agree but arguing here about it won't change anything. The ending was dumb, we get it, but don't argue the small details :|
MegaSovereign wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
The Protheans were only able to win the Metacon War because they basically enslaved every other organic species (Javik's idea of a "unified empire").
But not yet won. It's hard to do much with a shattered civilization.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 mars 2012 - 04:55 .
Atakuma wrote...
Space magic is the entire basis of modern civilization in the ME universe. I'm not sure why this is now a problem all of a sudden.
Lord Aesir wrote...
.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
I'm not claiming the Catalyst is objectively correct, only that it's logic seems to have a degree of precedense.
I, in fact, have shown you that in previous cycles the Catalyst has been vindicated.Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
I'm not claiming the Catalyst is objectively correct, only that it's logic seems to have a degree of precedense.
Not within the narrative it doesn't. You have to remember that this is a story, and there are basic concepts that a story must follow to remain consistent. Everything we have experienced throughout ME is contradictory to the Child's logic. Sure, you can make the argument that it has actually been hapenning for millions of years and this cycle is the one exception, but we're are not shown that, and that is an extreme fault in story-telling.
Showing us something, but then telling us something completely opposite to what was shown. Another big no-no in story-telling.
Lord Aesir wrote...
I, in fact, have shown you that in previous cycles the Catalyst has been vindicated.Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
I'm not claiming the Catalyst is objectively correct, only that it's logic seems to have a degree of precedense.
Not within the narrative it doesn't. You have to remember that this is a story, and there are basic concepts that a story must follow to remain consistent. Everything we have experienced throughout ME is contradictory to the Child's logic. Sure, you can make the argument that it has actually been hapenning for millions of years and this cycle is the one exception, but we're are not shown that, and that is an extreme fault in story-telling.
Showing us something, but then telling us something completely opposite to what was shown. Another big no-no in story-telling.
Lord Aesir wrote...
I, in fact, have shown you that in previous cycles the Catalyst has been vindicated.
Lord Aesir wrote...
I, in fact, have shown you that in previous cycles the Catalyst has been vindicated.Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
I'm not claiming the Catalyst is objectively correct, only that it's logic seems to have a degree of precedense.
Not within the narrative it doesn't. You have to remember that this is a story, and there are basic concepts that a story must follow to remain consistent. Everything we have experienced throughout ME is contradictory to the Child's logic. Sure, you can make the argument that it has actually been hapenning for millions of years and this cycle is the one exception, but we're are not shown that, and that is an extreme fault in story-telling.
Showing us something, but then telling us something completely opposite to what was shown. Another big no-no in story-telling.
Modifié par EHondaMashButton, 26 mars 2012 - 05:14 .
A fair point. BW is the only one that can address it properly. All we can offer is speculation and that goes both ways. Haters speculate plot holes and logic errors while others can speculate possible solutions. neither are correct.Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
I, in fact, have shown you that in previous cycles the Catalyst has been vindicated.
I think you missed the point. The narrative must show this, not you.
Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
I, in fact, have shown you that in previous cycles the Catalyst has been vindicated.
I think you missed the point. The narrative must show this, not you.
Modifié par Anaki86, 26 mars 2012 - 05:13 .
That was not the evidence you asked for. You asked for evidence of an instant when synthetics would turn on their creators. Which is also what the Catalyst said would happen. I provided that evidence.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
I, in fact, have shown you that in previous cycles the Catalyst has been vindicated.Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Perhaps, perhaps not, but what reason could the Reapers have to let synthetics that pose a threat sit around and advance their technology? As ME1 proves, synthetics are tools to the Reapers at best.
I doubt the Protheans, with their head cutoff at the Citadel, was capable of destroying a formidable synthetic species...
@bold- Read. The Protheans were on the precipice of winning the Metacon War, but then the Reapers invaded.
And as ME3 proves, not all synthetics are this inevitable evil the retarded Catalyst wants us to believe?
I'm not claiming the Catalyst is objectively correct, only that it's logic seems to have a degree of precedense.
Not within the narrative it doesn't. You have to remember that this is a story, and there are basic concepts that a story must follow to remain consistent. Everything we have experienced throughout ME is contradictory to the Child's logic. Sure, you can make the argument that it has actually been hapenning for millions of years and this cycle is the one exception, but we're are not shown that, and that is an extreme fault in story-telling.
Showing us something, but then telling us something completely opposite to what was shown. Another big no-no in story-telling.
Except he hasn't. He's so insistent on "Synthetics will eradicate all organic life", when all evidence has provided the opposite. Either the synthetics are peaceful with organics (geth/quarians), or the organics nearly wipe out the synthetics (Metacon War).
Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 26 mars 2012 - 05:24 .
Lord Aesir wrote...
That was not the evidence you asked for. You asked for evidence of an instant when synthetics would turn on their creators. Which is also what the Catalyst said would happen. I provided that evidence.
Then you've missed mine. I have not been trying to prove that the narrative did a good job of communicating this theme. Only that it exists in the lore.Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
I, in fact, have shown you that in previous cycles the Catalyst has been vindicated.
I think you missed the point. The narrative must show this, not you.
Now you're blatantly lying. That is precisely what we were told happened.o Ventus wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
That was not the evidence you asked for. You asked for evidence of an instant when synthetics would turn on their creators. Which is also what the Catalyst said would happen. I provided that evidence.
There isn't even evidence of that.
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