60 réponses à ce sujet

[M. Rieder]

I'm going to look at the current top 15 and see how long they have been there, but my gut is telling me that PJ may be on to something with 1500 DL/15 votes with 8+ score. It would definitely keep the top 15 list a lot more fresh and get much more movement there. Right now mods are on there for years at a time.

It is also important that other modders weigh in on this. I'd like to see what others have to say.

Modifié par M. Rieder, 09 avril 2012 - 04:53 .

[painofdungeoneternal]

I just don't see the relevance to myself of that score. I release mostly scripting related, or compilations attempting to create a common ground to help others develop content or run PW's easier.

Kind of thought having EVERY monster in one easy to use package targeting very common issues users were having getting them working together would be of use, and would eventually reach that status. Just not getting that many votes which i look at every few months, but my impression is that the monster pack is heavily used by the community, and its providing good value well worth the time i've put into it. ( main thing missing is whatever hellfire has done recently, hoping i can get some time to update things over the coming months )

[kamal_]

Pain, the monster pack and 2da work is indeed worthy. HoF for modules currently stands at 2500 downloads. For things other than modules, I do not know what the exact criteria are in terms of vote/download. Ironicly, since people get your work via PW or a module, people aren't directly downloading your work, and it seems hardly anyone will go out and find and vote for things they see in haks (plus download them to count towards any download requirements)

[PJ156]

Those are some good idea's Tsongo except ..  Sheep and Stone is in the review section and well ... I thought it would stay there forever

PJ

Modifié par PJ156, 09 avril 2012 - 09:22 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I think the HoF is important because it serves as a proxy for quality control. Many players are weary of community content because they think its buggy or of inconsistent quality. That Hall of Fame sticker gives a module an air of being polished and approved by something, so players feel like they won't be wasting their time playing it.

Another real issue, and I feel rather cynical saying this, is that a lot of people are incapable of making a choice when presented with a massive list of options. They need things pared down to a really short list before they can process things and make a decision. The new modules list is a good short list, and though its getting too long now, the HoF is another good short list. We really need more good short lists, and not just a big pile of modules to pick through.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Well i think you should still maintain a vault presence ... if the nexus goes down where are we then, basically that is why we wanted to have the nexus, just in case.

The vault pretty much has deeper pockets. If it's not as usable, or rated not as well, so what, at least your stuff is there so in case you leave the community ( like most vault authors ), the community still has a means of getting what you've done besides finding you and asking. And if you are on the vault and the nexus they have 2 ways.

Just don't put a lot of effort into it beyond getting the files there, nor turn on the comments, nor pay attention to how it rates things.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 10 avril 2012 - 05:07 .

[Claudius33]

Reading the topic, I understand now why 16 Cygni 1 has got the HoF, without the usual notification "Community has released some cool stuff ..."

@PJ, I wouldn't mind either to have 16 Cygni's all 3 parts grouped, but the accounting should mix dl and votes of both English and Int'l sections (counting only one vote for votes made by the same player in both sections). Because English pages contain only a presentation which can be grabbed from the Int'l pages too, so 16 Cygni 2&3 might remain in the Top 15 for a very, very, very, long time.

@Pain, unfortunately our time does not reward non visual (or audible) technical performance. Comparing to the huge buzz made about Steve Jobs, who remembers Dennis Ritchie? I have not used your scripts yet, but I am sure the modders who use them appreciate them. IIRC, any contribution other than a mod should gather 25 votes of 8 or above.

@Tsongo, I might be wrong but I think there a discussion section for every submission on the Nexus, so the Nexus does not prevent insults. Perhaps there are more active moderators. The way people sometimes react about something given for free can be stunning. I think we have all experienced that.

As time goes by modders gain experience, new scripts, new visual contents get available, so recently released mods are likely of higher quality in term of mapping, scripting robustness and visual content. Bottomline, anything below 9.5 may appear "light", which is crazy. IMO a standard rating system of 1 to 5 stars or from A to E would be better. What's the real difference between a 9.xx mod as compared to a 9.yy mod?

But It can be discussed (is there really a perfect system?) and that would change totally the way the Vault works.
For the time being, I would suggest for mods something like that :

• 25 votes 8 or above and a minimum of let's say 1000 dl
• OR 1500 (2000?) dl and a minimum of 15 votes 8 or above.

and for other contributions :

• 25 votes 8 or above
• OR 300(?) dl and a minimum 15 votes 8 or above.

I assume that something getting 25 votes less slowly will generate a favourable buzz quicker than something stuck by lack of votes. It could be discussed though.
 
Of course as the communauty of modders shrinks (they are newcomers though) and gets more exeprienced, HoF may become less and less meaningful, but that doesn't mean that efforts shouldn't be rewarded. It's one of the HoF purposes, in addition to be a way for a player to get a list of appreciated mods.

In order to increase visibility I would suggest also to make things like 'TOP NWN2 modules' look like a real button. It's a real button after all! And to underline it by a mention like 'Newly submitted top modules' followed by the list of 15. Obvioulsy it would mean that there are plenty of other top modules available.
It also could be done for the other contributions.

BTW, I'm still wondering why the author of a HoF'd mod or a HoF'd contribution is still 'registered' and not HoF herself/himself. Not that I really mind.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

painofdungeoneternal.. No problem my other two mods are going to stay there but I prefer the nexus and its endorsement policy it's just what I wanted, I've always hated the ridiculous voting system and wished it wasn't there but without disabling comments it is. What's the point of me putting a mod with no comments on the vault it wont even get listed after it leaves the new modules section as from what I can see anything without a vote relies on somebody trawling through all the mods and finding it by chance, and quite frankly I've had enough of people's nitpicking and borderline insults/abuse for something I've given them for free.

Think backup, if the nexus goes down in 15 years, and you are retired or missing, and if i don't decide to get a copy of every file and store it myself, i have no way of searching for your module and finding it. I am using a lot of tools, scripts and other things made for NWN1 originally, which are no longer supported. Having it in 2 places just makes me more comfortable.

But no, don't think of it as having ANY value other than that. Turn off the comments, copy paste your nexus description, and don't put any effort into it.

There is very flawed logic in wanting to only use the best and easiest one ( and wanting only one to exist), it ends up meaning all our eggs are in one basket. The end users WILL use the best and easiest one which seems like it will be the nexus, and it hurts nothing if they choose the nexus over the vault. However if authors choose one over the other and choose the wrong one, well we end up repeating the issue where we lost the original forums. ( It also negates the ability to create competition which i hope spurs the vault to rework it's features )

( there is a similar issue with computer systems, by having a mono culture of only one operating system it makes it possible to have a virus targeting that organization wipe it out, it's far better to have a mixture of various operating systems because it makes it far more likely to survive an attack. )

I also see the nexus tool, as a better way to find and install content, but it does not work for NWN2, and I've been working on something that does the same thing for NWN2. Since the nexus is not turning on features i've requested in that regards i am looking at making that work for the vault until such time as they do so ( I can basically use the same system they use for other games if they enabled it ). I already have a 2da with a searchable list of ALL vault modules for NWN1 and NWN2, which lets you find and open vault pages, and eventually will let you download the files and put them in the right spots.

Either way supporting both is just safer in the extreme long term, i hope when i am an old man i can set up an antique computer and try out many of the modules i never got a chance to play since i spend most of my time making things outside the game.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 10 avril 2012 - 08:14 .

[Tchos]

I add my voice to the recommendations that you should upload to both places.  I think any disadvantages to doing so (if there are any), are far outweighed by the advantages, while there are potential disadvantages to not doing so.

[Rolo Kipp]

<pulling out a penknife...>

My personal opinion is that the Vault should migrate to a drupal framework so *I* can do more than just approve things and jury-rig repairs ;-P

Beyond that, however, Let me point out that there is no D/L requirement for anything except mods. The only requirements for other submissions are 25 votes of 8+ and surviving a 3 month waiting period.

Also, if a mod is part of a series and any of the series reach HoF, they are all eligible, regardless of D/L or vote... Just let me know, as *that* part isn't automated :-P

I like the positive ideas here.

<...to make a finer point>

[M. Rieder]

TWAII has almost 500 DL on the vault but only 200 on the nexus. So the vault is still the most frequented. While the nexus is easier to maintain for the modder, I find the comments section a little less user friendly. I like the way the vault has all comments on one page for quick viewing and reply.

I will echo what has been said about the HOF as award and to help players find modules of higher quality. If one had to simply search through the stacks of 500 NWN2 modules, it could get irritating before they found a good one.

[Tchos]

I think you might not know of the ways you can monitor your comments on NW Nexus.    As someone with 18 mods to manage across the different games, I find it much more convenient to monitor the comments for all of my mods on a single subscription management page, as I can on the Nexus, whereas on the Vault I have to visit each page individually to even see if there are any new comments there at all.

There are two ways to monitor your comments.  You can just visit your mod management page (link only works if you're logged in), and view the comment and discussion numbers there, or you can do it the way I do it, which is to click to view the comments, then click the little "view forum thread" link on the upper right of the comment block, and click "watch topic".  After I've done that, I can view all my subscriptions from this page (I have it bookmarked).  If I see there was a new one posted, I click the little arrow icon next to the date of the last post to take me to the latest post.

For those who have fewer mods and just want to see the comments directly, you can just bookmark the forum threads themselves.  Whatever you reply there also shows up on the mod download page.

Modifié par Tchos, 11 avril 2012 - 05:26 .

[M. Rieder]

Thanks Tchos! That's really useful information. I'm going to start doing that. It does sound easier, especially if you have lots of submissions.

[Claudius33]

Rolo Kipp wrote...
Also, if a mod is part of a series and any of the series reach HoF, they are all eligible, regardless of D/L or vote... Just let me know, as *that* part isn't automated :-.

16 Cygni is a campaign in 3 parts. Beware it is presented on both Int'l and English sections as it is bilingual French/ (my improved by ralebeau) English.  D/L counters on the English section are meaningless since the mod's files are only available on the In'tl section. If you move the whole campaign to HoF, please make it known as usual (Community has realsead cool stuff ...), as if I got it correctly, it would put it into semi retirement .


@Tsongo: the long list comes from the richness of the toolset and from the creativity of the modders. That's why NWN2 is still alive ..

I would suggest for mods submitted since less than one year (for example) to have in addition to the last 5, a rotating list of 5 to 10 recently submitted mods on the Vault front page, updated let's say every week, whatever their current rating. Could be extended to a "old goodies" rotating list, by the way.

Another possibility to help the player to make a choice could be a tag based search engine (like on the Nexus) but with a limited number of tags (3?) per module. Otw modders may be tempted to mark all tags with even the tiniest link with their mod. 

Modifié par Claudius33, 11 avril 2012 - 09:16 .

[Tchos]

This is true about the HoF list.  I started out by going through and downloading every Hall of Fame module from the Hall of Fame list.  After that, I went through the full module list to download the rest of the English modules, and I was puzzled to see that the full list included additional modules that were marked as "Hall of Fame" that hadn't shown up in the HoF list I used the first time.  So there seems to be something strange going on there.

I'm not putting sole priority on HoF status when it comes to playing these modules, though, if that is a concern to anyone.  I understand that newer modules can be of superior quality and may never appear in the Hall of Fame due to the criteria and traffic.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I don't like the idea of scrapping the HoF entirely, just because that would mean either stripping the title away from older mods (and in the early days, there were enough substandard mods that the HoF distinction was important), or making newer mods seem inadequate in comparison because they don't have the flag. It might not be that big of an honor anymore, but it does prove that 25 people were able to play through it without any critical bugs.

Lowering the download and vote threshold would help cleanup the top-rated list on the front page, and since that's an easy fix why not do it?

But what we really need are other lists, or other kinds of spaces, to promote mods to new players. I like the idea of a "NWN2 classic" blurb every week listing some good old mods on the front page. If that can be automated, great, otherwise, we need to build a way for the community to draw attention to the mods they like. Maybe a recent vote&comment section, every comment with a fresh vote attached and more than 10 words gets a blurb on the front page. Or maybe we can open up the reviewing process, so just anyone can write a short review and post it, just like they would post any file.

What we also need to do is create a sticky on these forums to augment LeeMer's lists, a encyclopedia of mods, listing and describing notable mods in various categories so players can easily browse through them (PW's too).

[kevL]

idea ( and i'm neither member nor active modder, just tossing this out here )

What if Rolo / Maxi tossed newly uploaded modules to the boys & gals at AME for review and playtest (?)


The results could be, would be greater than the sum of its parts, with expert feedback from AME featured on the Vault pages - a new rating system might flow somewhat naturally out of this,

--
searching for that fabled beast, Objectivity.