225 réponses à ce sujet

[tetrisblock4x1]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

If Reapers (or whoever created them) had the technology to merge synthetics with organics, why didn't they just do it in the beginning instead of killing everyone?

20-20 hindsight, eh?

The crucible made it possible.

[BeefoTheBold]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

If Reapers (or whoever created them) had the technology to merge synthetics with organics, why didn't they just do it in the beginning instead of killing everyone?

20-20 hindsight, eh?

The crucible made it possible.

And they didn't build the Crucible themselves as their backup plan to begin with over the million or so previous cycles that they'd been doing this stuf why?

[Darth_Ultima]

Maybe it would have been better if we had never learned why the Reapers did what they did. Leave a little mystery.

[DeinonSlayer]

Jayce F wrote...

What I thought might be their motivation before Starboy came along:

That the Reapers began as a super advanced race that figured they could achieve transcendence by converting themselves into a synthetic life form.... only to realize they'd accidentally sent themselves down an evolutionary dead end and thus, through sheer passage of time, other civilizations would rise to surpass them.

Wanting to remain top dogs, they set about destroying any civilization that might one day challenge them. Hence their particular interest in humans as they perceived us to be their biggest threat.

Boy how wrong was I.....

Reapers harvest organics, reproduce via obtained organic material. Preserve single individual from selected race to serve as master control, as, mind, for new Reaper, via QE interface.

"Preserve Shepard's body if possible."

Full credit goes to David J. Ashler, and trust me, it sounds a hell of a lot better in-context. I don't remember how I first stumbled onto this, but it's brilliant. Before the leaks, I honestly couldn't picture ME3 ending any other way.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 26 mars 2012 - 06:01 .

[jtrook]

(dusts off old fan fic). An ancient civilization long ago was waging an intense war against another ancient faction. The problem was the enemy could reproduce faster then the other. So one faction decided to create the first synthetic that could reproduce and turn vast numbers from an advantage to a disadvantage as those numbers would soon be turned against them but the technology soon gained sapient status and saw the only end to conflict of organics was to destroy them and let other civilizations rise in its place. They used their creators technology to build the relays and the citadel to ease the process. Common consensus was that every 50,000 years was enough time to let life recoup and  build up enough once again for Reaper intervention.

Not the best writing I have done but it covers a decent amount of mysteries.

Modifié par jtrook, 26 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[FlashedMyDrive]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

If Reapers (or whoever created them) had the technology to merge synthetics with organics, why didn't they just do it in the beginning instead of killing everyone?

20-20 hindsight, eh?

The crucible made it possible.

That's like saying if someone designs and builds a car, they'd can't also make the key.


Guy1: "Hey guys! I just built this huge-ass space station that can rewrite the nature of every organic and sythetic in the entire galaxy!"

Guy2: Sweet, lets use it to end this constant fighting!

Guy1: Yeah... that's the thing... I don't know how to start it...

Yup, perfect sense.

Modifié par FlashedMyDrive, 26 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[Mass Fraud]

Darth_Ultima wrote...

Maybe it would have been better if we had never learned why the Reapers did what they did. Leave a little mystery.

The endings are still a mystery, nothing was explained in the end.
Heck, there are more questions than answers.

[tetrisblock4x1]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

If Reapers (or whoever created them) had the technology to merge synthetics with organics, why didn't they just do it in the beginning instead of killing everyone?

20-20 hindsight, eh?

The crucible made it possible.

That's like saying if someone designs and builds a car, they'd can't also make the key.


Guy1: "Hey guys! I just built this huge-ass space station that can rewrite the nature of every organic and sythetic in the entire galaxy!"

Guy2: Sweet, lets use it to end this constant fighting!

Guy1: Yeah... that's the thing... I don't know how to start it...

Yup, perfect sense.

They wanted to let shepard or someone like shepard to make the choice. They said in ME1 that they were too alien for us to understand so what were you expecting? A revelation?

[FlashedMyDrive]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

If Reapers (or whoever created them) had the technology to merge synthetics with organics, why didn't they just do it in the beginning instead of killing everyone?

20-20 hindsight, eh?

The crucible made it possible.

That's like saying if someone designs and builds a car, they'd can't also make the key.


Guy1: "Hey guys! I just built this huge-ass space station that can rewrite the nature of every organic and sythetic in the entire galaxy!"

Guy2: Sweet, lets use it to end this constant fighting!

Guy1: Yeah... that's the thing... I don't know how to start it...

Yup, perfect sense.

They wanted to let shepard or someone like shepard to make the choice. They said in ME1 that they were too alien for us to understand so what were you expecting? A revelation?

So they have a solution to the synthetic problem so they refuse to use the solution to the synthetic problem so they can create sythetics to kill organics before organics create synthetics that kill organics until someone discovers the solution to the sythetics problem and stop the cycle?

So, try to solve a problem by solving the problem but hiding the solution until  someone else uses the solution to solve the problem that you originally had.

You are right, I don't understand.

What, they were afraid to make the choice, but were totally okay will mass genocide?

Modifié par FlashedMyDrive, 26 mars 2012 - 07:06 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

I think they were waiting for synthetics and organics to all get along in order to have the strength to beat the reapers. Think of it as a test. I've only completed the game once though am I'm not sure how your options change based on the quarian/geth conflict.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 26 mars 2012 - 07:16 .

[ZajoE38]

They are not protecting us from creating synthetics. Maybe they just feed on us and reproduce. And they can't harvest synthetics so they make sure the AI don't wipe any organics out, otherwise the Reapers would starve

[tetrisblock4x1]

Sovereign said that they're too alien for us to understand so at least the ME3 endings lived up to expectations.

[dsl08002]

It would be better if you never discovered the reapers real motivations, because it all takes away the mystical reason why they exist because there motivation was to difficult for an organic to grasp.

"Your mission is to stop them, Not in understanding them"

[Dexi]

batlin wrote...

Here's my take

It's clear that the Reapers only target species advanced enough to have invented interstellar travel since they use the mass relays as a way to find them.

So the first question we must answer is this: Why kill advanced races? One reason could be that they can't have any species become more advanced than themselves. Why is that? Well, what kind of technology may be beyond species of humans, asari, turians, etc that isn't beyond the Reapers? Well mass effect technology, of course.

So why do the Reapers want to prevent any species from developing this technology? Because if abused, mass effect technology could cause universal catastrophe, such as a reverse big bang, thermal death of the universe, the destruction of the laws of physics, etc etc etc. Some kind of disaster with implications that reach far beyond just one galaxy.

So the Reapers were the first lifeforms in the universe to have discovered the mass effect, learned of what kind of damage it could cause if abused, and concluded that it was only a matter of time before other species in the universe discovered this same technology. The Reapers couldn't trust anyone else with the fate of the entire universe in their hands, so they took it upon themselves to become the custodians of their known universe, with each galaxy being tended to by a fleet of Reapers that wipe out all life every 50k years; what they estimate is about the time it takes for a species to become advanced enough to be dangerous, but not advanced enough to be a threat the the Reapers themselves.

Add your own explanation for the reapers' plan and feel free to criticize mine

It's the EXACT same thing as the ME3 reason, but instead of "secrets of mass effect fields", it's "probabilistic certainty that due to a technological singularity, AI will decide to kill all organic life in the known universe". 


Lol, people should first try to understand and, if failed ( and not because of own incomprehension or bad logic) claim that something doesn't make sense... 

[Dexi]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

If Reapers (or whoever created them) had the technology to merge synthetics with organics, why didn't they just do it in the beginning instead of killing everyone?

20-20 hindsight, eh?

The crucible made it possible.

That's like saying if someone designs and builds a car, they'd can't also make the key.


Guy1: "Hey guys! I just built this huge-ass space station that can rewrite the nature of every organic and sythetic in the entire galaxy!"

Guy2: Sweet, lets use it to end this constant fighting!

Guy1: Yeah... that's the thing... I don't know how to start it...

Yup, perfect sense.

They wanted to let shepard or someone like shepard to make the choice. They said in ME1 that they were too alien for us to understand so what were you expecting? A revelation?

So they have a solution to the synthetic problem.

They didn't have that solution. 

We still don't know the exact Reapers' history, but if because a rebellion, the "Reaper" form was already created, the general consensus achieved due to the circumstances was that there cannot be a communion between synthethics and organics. 

The one that showed them wrong was Shepard. As told by the Guardian himself, Shepard proved everything they thought was right, wrong. 

Also, probably someone like Shepard, half-synthethic anyway, and with his capable mind, was to be needed to blend with the Citadel to merge synthetics and organics. 

[Vesji]

1) They ensure the future of the "not yet advanced enough to make synthetics, that will kill all organics" organics by..

2) ...storing the "advanced enough to create synthetics that will kill all organics" organic individuals' genomes inside the Reapers' bodies. Making those organics into organic paste (What Reapers call "harvesting"). To...

3) ..."preserve" said organics's genes and save the other "not advanced enough to make synthetics that will kill all organics" organics from being wiped out by the synthetics, created by the "advanced enough organics, who will create synthetics, who will kill all organics" organics. Thus...

4) ...esablishing peace in the galaxy by ensuring every organic is safe and sound, either in the form of goo, or "primitive" as a jellyfish, or a Yahg. 

That, I think is what BioWare thought would be a good reason for the whole Reaper ordeal.

Haha.. now when I'm thinking about how rediculous it all is, I just imagine, after explaining this to Shepard, the ?Star / God /AI child? being like:
"See Shep? Reapers care man, they really do. Now why don't you just step right in to that beam over there and we will turn you into this nice organic goo, so you can live forever inside us ^,....,^"

Modifié par Vesji, 26 mars 2012 - 08:04 .

[jtsherrard]

I had concluded it to be either the individuality of each race created a form of evolution to the reapers How did the reapers get the eezo tech on them if they created eezo tech? maybe they didnt create the technology, they assimilated the race that had it, so in a way, the reapers hold the technology of billions of years of technologically advanced races. By leaving the tech around, they create the blueprints for future generations to expand upon.

[MalevoIence]

I thought the game made it perfectly clear.... are you saying the fans are the ones making it complicated?

[chengda85]

Dexi wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

If Reapers (or whoever created them) had the technology to merge synthetics with organics, why didn't they just do it in the beginning instead of killing everyone?

20-20 hindsight, eh?

The crucible made it possible.

That's like saying if someone designs and builds a car, they'd can't also make the key.


Guy1: "Hey guys! I just built this huge-ass space station that can rewrite the nature of every organic and sythetic in the entire galaxy!"

Guy2: Sweet, lets use it to end this constant fighting!

Guy1: Yeah... that's the thing... I don't know how to start it...

Yup, perfect sense.

They wanted to let shepard or someone like shepard to make the choice. They said in ME1 that they were too alien for us to understand so what were you expecting? A revelation?

So they have a solution to the synthetic problem.

They didn't have that solution. 

We still don't know the exact Reapers' history, but if because a rebellion, the "Reaper" form was already created, the general consensus achieved due to the circumstances was that there cannot be a communion between synthethics and organics. 

The one that showed them wrong was Shepard. As told by the Guardian himself, Shepard proved everything they thought was right, wrong. 

Also, probably someone like Shepard, half-synthethic anyway, and with his capable mind, was to be needed to blend with the Citadel to merge synthetics and organics. 

there have already been half synthetics in the past such as that race that stored their brains in computers to survive.

i also find it hard to believe that in untold billions of eyars no one else figured it out and then shepard suddenly showed up and proved the guardian wrong, how  is it the the creator of the reapers was wrong but some man figured it out?

[Roxlimn]

Before there were Reapers, there was an organic civilization that spanned the entire galaxy and achieved technological singularity. They developed AIs that eventually rebelled against them and drove them to war. Being that their civilization was galaxy-wide and all-powerful, the ensuing victory of the synthetics only has one possible outcome: the complete and thorough annihilation of advanced organic life for all time.

In order to defeat their own creations, they had to ascend to forms that could match the synthetics in their essential advantages; they became Reapers. The Reapers won. Before their formative war, they perceived that they had no purpose, but now they had one - to preserve the viability of organic life. Their combined organizer was housed in the Citadel as the Catalyst.

Over millions, even billions of years, experiment and experience taught them to use the Mass Relays to manipulate organic evolution for the Reaping, and to place the time limit for Reaping at around 50,000 years. Removing simply the synthetics would not do; once the technology was discovered it was inevitably expressed multiple times going forward, with each new expression inheriting all the technology organics had developed up to that time; it was inevitable that synthetics would take over.

This necessitated removing the organic civilizations that possessed AI technology from the galactic stage. In keeping with their purpose, the Reapers do not destroy them, but preserve their essentials in Reaper form. Their DNA is housed in massive repositories, and each significant personality uploaded into the mainframe. Each Reaper is literally a nation unto itself, composed of massive DNA samples and thousands of individual personalities and intelligences.

So they have kept the cycle for millions of years, each cycle conforming more or less according to their predicted behaviors - until the current one.

[BigZ7337]

I have a few generic ideas.
1. Reapers are a synthetic organic hybrid, so is it too far out for the Reapers to have a biological imperative to reproduce? Then since they still have a synthetic mind, they created a perfect 50,000 year cycle where they let the different alien species evolve until they're ripe for the picking. Finally they conquer the Galaxy, melting down down the most attractive race to create a new Reaper and preserve their DNA for eternity while destroying the rest of the advanced races.

2. An advanced race was befalling some sort of apocalyptic event, and they created the first Reaper as a way to preserve themselves. Their creation rebelled or even followed their creator's implied intent and would reap advanced races before they could destroy themselves.

3. Could use a lot of what is presented in the closure of ME3, but add to it. Perhaps the Super AI (Catalyst) reveals that millions/billions of years ago and in a different Galaxy it destroyed all Organic life in pursuit of perfect order. However, the AI later realized its solution was flawed, and then moved to the Milky Way to test a new solution. In this Galaxy it wanted to employ controlled chaos, and it created the Reapers to curtail the advanced organic species before they could create a synthetic life that could destroy all organic life. The God-AI further used controlled chaos to direct the technological advancements of the evolved life forms to prevent the races from being able to stop the cycle.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Modifié par BigZ7337, 26 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[Scarecrow_ES]

Honestly... and I apologize if these ideas have already been discussed already as I couldn't read all of the replies before creating my own.

I think the most workable solution already lies within the framework of the game and the story BioWare already put into motion...

You have an advanced race in a time so long ago that a time before "the cycle" can't be remembered...

They create synthetic life, which then turns on them and seeks to destroy them. Maybe they're winning... maybe not. Either way, they form the basic flawed premise that all synthetic life is a threat to organic life, and that any sufficiently advanced form of life will inevitably create synthetic life. To avoid the outright destruction of ALL organic life, and to preserve the history, culture, and essense of their own civilization, they come up with the idea of transferring the essense of their culture into an advanced form of hybrid synthetic/organic life we call "reapers." To make sure the cycle of chaos isn't repeated, you get the reaper "cycle" - where every 50,000 years reapers come and harvest advanced civilizations and leave evolving ones.

In this twisted sort of way, the originators of this cycle ensure that organic life will continue on, forever, and will never get advanced enough to wipe itself out entirely through it's own creations.

Of course, the premise is flawed in several ways - first in that the originators of the cycle essentially created synthetic life to combat the rise of synthetic life (whoops!), second in that chosen method to combat the rist of synthetic life and preserve organic life actually destroys organics and breeds additional synthetics, and thrid in that the process actually creates chaos from the established order.

This is actually a very common and well enjoyed theme from many sci-fi "man vs. machine" epics. Man creates machine to serve the interests of man. Machine sees that men are their own worst enemies. In an effort to serve the interests of man, machine seeks to enslave/destroy man to protect them from themselves. The concept of "saving life by destroying it" can be found in everything from Halo to i Robot and beyond.

And honestly, within the framework of the story already created, this cliched "twisted logic" approach would work fine if applied appropriately.

[tetrisblock4x1]

It's the fact that there can be a geth/quarian alliance sort of shot the man vs machine theme in the foot... if Bioware just rewrote that to remove the option of peace between man and machine that the ending would be much more accepted.

[Scarecrow_ES]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

It's the fact that there can be a geth/quarian alliance sort of shot the man vs machine theme in the foot... if Bioware just rewrote that to remove the option of peace between man and machine that the ending would be much more accepted.

It's not really a shot in the foot.  If you look at how this theme typically plays out in other story's, it involves the "hero" explaining the flaws in the logic.  It actually seems, at the end there, that the story's end might go that way...

Explaining to the Catalyst all the ways it has failed... how the cycle creates synthetics, destroys organics, destroys their civilizations, deletes them from history... and how in THIS cycle, synthetics and organics can live in harmony (EDI, the Geth).  Showing the Catalyst how much harm the cycle and the reapers have done, and why they're not needed anymore - showing the Catalyst that it IS the created, synthetic.  Then cue the happy ending.

All of this makes sense within the context of the existing story framework.  None of this could have every been explained to the Catalyst, since Shepard is the first to ever reach it.

Truthfully, the opportunity to get to know the Geth, to elevate them to true free will, then cause peace between them and the Quarians is perhaps the shining story achievement in the entire series, and is perhaps one of the best race reactions in all of gaming.  To remove this sort of opportunity would truly diminish, by a significant margin, the story of the series.

[Darth Wolfenbarg]

Nejeli wrote...

I like the theory proposed in the second game - that the Reapers harvest advanced civilizations for breeding and evolution. A cycle of 50,000 years assures that there will be at least one species advanced enough to be useful, and leaving being technology 'blueprints' assures they progress in a way that will be beneficial to the Reapers.

I think that still left us with the important question of why. We know how there are so many of them now, but how did this begin? At what point did a species 'ascend' to become Harbinger and at what point did Harbinger decide to 'save' other species as it had been saved. They think they are doing organic species a favor by imposing order to the chaos of the galaxy, right? The harvesting would have to be the means to an end.

I always thought the explanation would be built along the lines of the idea that they think they are saving species by incorporating them into their fold, it was just a question of what that reason would be. The synthetic/organic thing doesn't really have grounding in what the rest of the series set up, but that's what they used.