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[Mmw04014]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

I also still believe that the "NPC just misunderstood me" is a valid interpretation. I'm not overly concerned with how an NPC reacts to what I say because I'm not controlling the NPC. I place being able to adequately roleplay my own character over the fluidity of the coversations between myself and others. Ultimately though, that's my own preference and I don't really think many people share that with me.

FWIW - I do.

My goal in roleplaying is to..... roleplay.  As long as I can successfully accomplish that, I'm pretty darned happy.

I also feel that those occasional possible misinterpretations are entirely in keeping with real human behavior.  It happens frequently in daily life.

I'm really glad some people still feel that way! With Bioware's turn into prioritizing cinematics over roleplaying, I get scared that they are appealing to some majority that I just don't belong to.

[Nomen Mendax]

Silfren wrote...

Actually, no, even in Origins, you didn't create your character's personality. The claim is that Dragon Age: Origins provided players with a blank-slate character that afforded them the opportunity to create a personality out of whole-cloth, but this demonstrably false.  Even with that silent protagonist, players still operated within the bonds of preset dialogue choices, and, by extension, personality options.  We had a greater RANGE of dialogue options to choose from, but that is by no means the same thing as insisting that we were able to create an entire personality from scratch.  And the personality options were not really all that different from origins.  In a good many cases of scenes, two or three dialogues out of an available four-six were different phrasings for the same sentiment, conveying no differences in personality at all. 

It is all an illusion, and there is considerable debate on whether DA2 was truly worse than Origins in this regard, because quite a lot of people have commented favorably on the different tonal qualities available to Hawke as making all the difference in re-plays, insisting that a playthrough of Aggressive Hawke gives the game an entirely different feel from a Diplomatic one, and so on.  Also, Hawke actually is closer to a blank slate in terms of her family's backstory than any of the Wardens were.

I've heard this opinion quite a bit (with reference to ME as well as DA) and seeing that you've expressed it rather well I wanted to take the opportunity to disagree with it.

Obviously our choices are limited to whatever Bioware feels like implementing in the game.  However my warden's (or Hawke's or Shepard's) personality is not limited in the same way.  My character's personality exists in my imagination and is coloured not just by my perceptions of what the game is trying to convey (which may be different to yours) but also by my personality, life experiences, and whatever additional information about the character I care to invent. 

One of the issues about voiced chracacters is that some people prefer the DA2 approach because they get to experience two different Hawkes (as you note in your post).  For other people (such as myself), because the tone is more explicit with a voiced character the contradictions between Bioware's "intended" personality and the player's imagined personality become harder to ignore.

[Davillo]

Silent protagonist is not what made Origins great and Havke being voiced is not what screwed DA2 so this is pointless.

[Aren19]

I'd rather not have a voiced protagonist. For me, it seems to ruin replay ability. If it's different voices, sure, that'll be fine, but in the Mass Effect series, I couldn't make a second female Shepard since I kept picturing my first FemShep and it didn't feel right. Who knows what Bioware will do though.

[Yrkoon]

Davillo wrote...

Silent protagonist is not what made Origins great and Havke being voiced is not what screwed DA2 so this is pointless.

I agree with the second  statement there.   A voiced Hawke is hardly what made DA2 crappy, IMO.

However, there's no way to know how things would have been in DA:O.  Would it have been just as good if the Warden was voiced?  Not sure.  I do know that I probably wouldn't have played the  game 20 friggin times if my warden was voiced.  My sanity wouldn't have allowed it.  Plus the fact that my Dwarf would have had the same voice as my Human noble....  that, alone,  would have killed immersion for me.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 30 mars 2012 - 11:35 .

[LobselVith8]

Silfren wrote...

I already addressed this argument once the first time you wrote it in answer to one of my posts, and can only assume you didn't read it.  Firstly, the tones are NOT good, evil, and neutral, and you need to disabuse yourself of this notion, because if you actually do believe this is what the tones are meant to represent, then it is clearly part of the issue.  The tone options are Diplomatic, Humorous, and Aggressive, none of which exactly or automatically translate into good, evil, or neutral.  It should go without saying, but apparently it can't: evil people can be very diplomatic, having a sense of humor doesn't make you neutral, and being Aggressive hardly makes you evil.

Secondly, of COURSE the tones are drastically different and convey different personalities.  That's precisely what they're intended to do.

I know this response wasn't intended for me, but I agree - the tones didn't indicate good, neutral, or evil. I think there were issues with the diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive options, but that's another topic entirely.

Silfren wrote...

I'm repeating myself again, it seems: the tone and personlity of the silent Warden were NOT yours to decide on.  The game had predefined assumptions of what each dialogue choice represented as far as tone.  This is evidenced by how NPCs react to your dialogue.  The game doesn't give a flip what YOU the player want the silent dialogue to mean: it operates according to the meaning assigned to the dialogue by the game developers.   The only way to assert your own interpretations for the tone is to completely ignore the way the entirety of the game responds to you.

I agree, the writers did make assumptions about how specific lines came across - regardless of what the player intended with those lines. I think having a voiced protagonist simply makes this harder for people to ignore, and makes the issue in Bioware's approach much more apparent.

Silfren wrote...

With either silent or voiced, you still are limited to the dialogue options, and by extension the personality options, the game provides to you.  Origins typically gave you between four and six dialogue choices, but generally no more than 3 basic personalities were conveyed, one often being represented by two or three different phrasings of the same sentiment.  The tone and personality are JUST AS MUCH yours to decide on with DA2 as they were in Origins.  That you didn't actually hear the tone in Origins doesn't mean you had greater choice, because you STILL were choosing from a preset list of tones, not something you just invented entirely on your own.  Why you can't seem to grasp this last fact is beyond me.  You NEVER make up your own tone or personality with a silent PC, you choose from a list of options provided to you.  This is the case whether the PC is silent or voiced.

I don't dispute what you're saying, because Origins certainly wasn't perfect, but I think Bioware should strive for greater variation in their dialogue options.