300 réponses à ce sujet

[ryuasiu]

CavScout wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

CavScout wrote...
You dont' love the ending, that's why you ascribe to a fan theory so you can disregard the current ending.

LOL wow...I dont like the ending becuase I spent 2 min thinking about it and discuss it with other players. You do realize thats what people have done for inception, blade runner, and shutter island right? or how about 2001 a space odyssey? Oh you trolls, stay classy. though I will still listen to ya if you come up with something better then IT. I love having inteligant discussions about stuff like this

Untenable position results in name calling. Nice one....

You've been calling people who believe in IT names in pretty much every post you made.

It almost seems like you have a personal stake in proving it wrong, like it did something bad to you.

You wouldn't happen to be a Bioware writer, would you?

Indoctrination Theory Check-List

[ ] Accuse doubters of being trolls
[ ] Accuse doubters of being BioWare plants

You hit them all, congrats!

Never called you a plant, and only called you a troll becuase instead of coming up with something better you just automaticly shut people down. Basicly saying I only believe in IT becuase I dont like the ending and I must not like the ending becuase I am here talking about the ending. You never ackowledge my points that if...IF this is what biowares plan is its not the first sci-fi story to do so. Blade runner Had its fair share of fans that speculated on the endings, and you know what happened? The director liked alot of what the fans were coming up with and integrated it into future cut of it. We wont know for sure if this was biowares plan or not, atleast untill april. But based on their responses, hints droped on twitter and facebook before retake movement kicked in, and the evidence in the game itself is something that while I dont know for a true fact is correct, I am fairly 90% sure about.

What I do come here for is to have my thoughts challenged on the ending through discussion rather than dismissive claims. I love being challenged and having to think and making others think as well. If you cant come up with a better idea or theory other than 'you like IT therefore you hate IT' or 'space magic!' then your not forcing me to think and your not going to make me change my mind.

I have ran into some really provoking and well thought out arguements against IT. One post brought up the mail you get from Shiala, talking about still soverigns voice in her head. They brought up good points against indrocration but also on indrocranation in general and I really enjoyed that thread. They never dismissed what I said just becuase I liked the ending or becuase I like IT. They challenged me and my points and I challenged theirs. 

If your not a troll, then please feel free to offer me another point of view as to what is going on in the ending that makes more sense than IT. I will gladly discuss it and if you make alot of sense I may drop IT. Till then I am not simply drop a theory becuase of "LOL IT so dumb' or "you just like IT becuase you hat the ending' I will continue in my belief that IT makes sense till either someone makes a better theory or bioware proves me wrong (which I personally always maintained is a possiblity, abit a slim one with evidence as is, but a posbility none the less)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

One other thing about the synthesis ending regarding space magic. There is no way to get around Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. They certainly do in that ending when they convert rewrite all the DNA. Space Magic.

[ryuasiu]

The Smitchens wrote...

Va1us wrote...

THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

My favorite is how the approach to Anderson in the final area is 1) collector ship parts 2) Shadowbroker's ship parts and 3) normandy parts leading up to 4) illusive man's favorite room

The indoctrination is using parts of your mind to construct the area like the Geth virtual world.

Here's some shots, only just recognized some Omega in there too.

Link (just in case): i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff16/dbzakj/Untitled-3.jpg
Better link: i.imgur.com/oHO5N.jpg

Exactly. 

The Omega part also kinda looks like the derelict reaper with those huge... what are they?  Ducts?  Hanging around.

An interesting Idea, but I am not 100% on this one. I think I will sleep on it and see what I think in the morning.

[draken-heart]

to me it does not matter what they choose, current ending or indoctrination theory, to tell the fans, i am just going to head canon it anyways.

plus that is all that theory is, people's head canon they want others to adopt.

[dreman9999]

http://social.biowar.../index/10644701

[ryuasiu]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

One other thing about the synthesis ending regarding space magic. There is no way to get around Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. They certainly do in that ending when they convert rewrite all the DNA. Space Magic.

One of the other reasons I support IT theory, that and if you pick that option Joker still limps and seems weak. WTF really? Man, poor Joker cant catch a break

[ryuasiu]

draken-heart wrote...

to me it does not matter what they choose, current ending or indoctrination theory, to tell the fans, i am just going to head canon it anyways.

plus that is all that theory is, people's head canon they want others to adopt.

I dont care of others adopt it or not, just dont want someone claiming that the ONLY reason I like it becuase I hate the ending. Yeah, becuase I have to choose between liking the ending and believing IT. Right....<_<

[TheLastAwakening]

So is indoc theory finally dismissed?

[ryuasiu]

TheLastAwakening wrote...

So is indoc theory finally dismissed?

Untill april comes around all theorys are open for debate

[palacios]

The way I see having low ems and just having the destroy option available only is because everyone is dead at that point, you have no military strength or support, which is another reason why you wouldn't get the breathing ending, too. The breathing ending symbolizes you getting out of attempt of indoctrination, so you can continue forward. I Does it mean that you just fail the game in general, maybe?

Just my thought.

[draken-heart]

ryuasiu wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

to me it does not matter what they choose, current ending or indoctrination theory, to tell the fans, i am just going to head canon it anyways.

plus that is all that theory is, people's head canon they want others to adopt.

I dont care of others adopt it or not, just dont want someone claiming that the ONLY reason I like it becuase I hate the ending. Yeah, becuase I have to choose between liking the ending and believing IT. Right....<_<

it can be head canon if the theorists want, but they should not try to force their head canon onto the masses by trying to make it the ending.

[ryuasiu]

palacios wrote...

The way I see having low ems and just having the destroy option available only is because everyone is dead at that point, you have no military strength or support, which is another reason why you wouldn't get the breathing ending, too. The breathing ending symbolizes you getting out of attempt of indoctrination, so you can continue forward. I Does it mean that you just fail the game in general, maybe?

Just my thought.

Breathing scene does not happen if you have low EMS. Its assumed you died. You only get that scene if you have a high EMS

[ArkkAngel007]

draken-heart wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

to me it does not matter what they choose, current ending or indoctrination theory, to tell the fans, i am just going to head canon it anyways.

plus that is all that theory is, people's head canon they want others to adopt.

I dont care of others adopt it or not, just dont want someone claiming that the ONLY reason I like it becuase I hate the ending. Yeah, becuase I have to choose between liking the ending and believing IT. Right....<_<

it can be head canon if the theorists want, but they should not try to force their head canon onto the masses by trying to make it the ending.

And people who disagree with that should do the same on their end.  Hardly anyone is forcing IT.  They post evidence to discuss, and they explain why they think that way.  That isn't forcing.  People who believe so are way too sensitive and probably need to find another hobby to spread out their emotional investment a bit.

Now, to the IT people who are actually actively attempting to convince people: just stop.  Explain your case, answer the counter arguments and what not, but don't bang on about how they're wrong and you're right.  No one knows that except BioWare.  It's pointless.

[Lokanaiya]

draken-heart wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

to me it does not matter what they choose, current ending or indoctrination theory, to tell the fans, i am just going to head canon it anyways.

plus that is all that theory is, people's head canon they want others to adopt.

I dont care of others adopt it or not, just dont want someone claiming that the ONLY reason I like it becuase I hate the ending. Yeah, becuase I have to choose between liking the ending and believing IT. Right....<_<

it can be head canon if the theorists want, but they should not try to force their head canon onto the masses by trying to make it the ending.

Then don't try and force us to accept your bleak view and head canon by pointing out that here's one piece of evidence out of all the others that doesn't quite fit and so the entire theory must be false, regardless of the amount of evidence for IT. Both sides need to stop forcing their explanation down the other's throat.

But...if you can provide another logical explanation for what happened and why it happened, and can back it up, I'll accept that and change my view. But as it stands, there has been no theory that I have seen that has the same amount of logic and evidence behind it. Do you know of one?

[NReed106]

You can never 100% prove something Cav, your rebuttals are "well you don't know for sure" which is worse than using knowledge we have already gained to explain solutions to problems.  I can say if I drop a apple it will fall based on my past knowledge of how gravity works and my exp with it, much in the same manner people will take what is shown through ME and use common sense.  A relay exploding and destroying the Normandy in the explosion is good evidence that the relay's destruction was dangerous

And yes a plot hole can be defined as "Characters acting completely out of character."
http://tvtropes.org/...p/Main/PlotHole

So yes, squadmates teleporting and running away from Shep in his hour of need is def Out of Character and thus a plot hole

Modifié par NReed106, 27 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[Marinemike69]

Last game I buy from EA-Bioware. Spent $75 on a game with a ****y/ no ending.

And then they have the nerve to tell us to like; and that we should pip down.

[draken-heart]

Lokanaiya wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

to me it does not matter what they choose, current ending or indoctrination theory, to tell the fans, i am just going to head canon it anyways.

plus that is all that theory is, people's head canon they want others to adopt.

I dont care of others adopt it or not, just dont want someone claiming that the ONLY reason I like it becuase I hate the ending. Yeah, becuase I have to choose between liking the ending and believing IT. Right....<_<

it can be head canon if the theorists want, but they should not try to force their head canon onto the masses by trying to make it the ending.

Then don't try and force us to accept your bleak view and head canon by pointing out that here's one piece of evidence out of all the others that doesn't quite fit and so the entire theory must be false, regardless of the amount of evidence for IT. Both sides need to stop forcing their explanation down the other's throat.

But...if you can provide another logical explanation for what happened and why it happened, and can back it up, I'll accept that and change my view. But as it stands, there has been no theory that I have seen that has the same amount of logic and evidence behind it. Do you know of one?

i am not trying to force you guys to accept anything nor do i have a bleak view of the game, it was made the way it was because Bioware wanted it to be. And in April when it gets shot down because Bioware does not want it to be there, people will still head canon it into their Shepard's story, i just think the indoc theorists should go away and straight to head canon it.

plus i see all the evidence, and think that the indoc theory is viable, i just do not think i should crusade for it to be in-game.

[ryuasiu]

draken-heart wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

to me it does not matter what they choose, current ending or indoctrination theory, to tell the fans, i am just going to head canon it anyways.

plus that is all that theory is, people's head canon they want others to adopt.

I dont care of others adopt it or not, just dont want someone claiming that the ONLY reason I like it becuase I hate the ending. Yeah, becuase I have to choose between liking the ending and believing IT. Right....<_<

it can be head canon if the theorists want, but they should not try to force their head canon onto the masses by trying to make it the ending.

As far as I am concered the only people that can push an ending down the throats is bioware. Untill Bioware reveals what they are doing in april no one knows for 100% sure. 

I am not trying to make it 'the ending' for people, and I really doubt bioware would go through that route just becuase some fans are thinking that way. 

[CavScout]

ryuasiu wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

CavScout wrote...
You dont' love the ending, that's why you ascribe to a fan theory so you can disregard the current ending.

LOL wow...I dont like the ending becuase I spent 2 min thinking about it and discuss it with other players. You do realize thats what people have done for inception, blade runner, and shutter island right? or how about 2001 a space odyssey? Oh you trolls, stay classy. though I will still listen to ya if you come up with something better then IT. I love having inteligant discussions about stuff like this

Untenable position results in name calling. Nice one....

You've been calling people who believe in IT names in pretty much every post you made.

It almost seems like you have a personal stake in proving it wrong, like it did something bad to you.

You wouldn't happen to be a Bioware writer, would you?

Indoctrination Theory Check-List

[ ] Accuse doubters of being trolls
[ ] Accuse doubters of being BioWare plants

You hit them all, congrats!

Never called you a plant...

You accused/suggested me of being a BioWare writer....

...and only called you a troll becuase instead of coming up with something better you just automaticly shut people down. Basicly saying I only believe in IT becuase I dont like the ending and I must not like the ending becuase I am here talking about the ending. You never ackowledge my points that if...IF this is what biowares plan is its not the first sci-fi story to do so. Blade runner Had its fair share of fans that speculated on the endings, and you know what happened? The director liked alot of what the fans were coming up with and integrated it into future cut of it. We wont know for sure if this was biowares plan or not, atleast untill april. But based on their responses, hints droped on twitter and facebook before retake movement kicked in, and the evidence in the game itself is something that while I dont know for a true fact is correct, I am fairly 90% sure about.

What I do come here for is to have my thoughts challenged on the ending through discussion rather than dismissive claims. I love being challenged and having to think and making others think as well. If you cant come up with a better idea or theory other than 'you like IT therefore you hate IT' or 'space magic!' then your not forcing me to think and your not going to make me change my mind.

I have ran into some really provoking and well thought out arguements against IT. One post brought up the mail you get from Shiala, talking about still soverigns voice in her head. They brought up good points against indrocration but also on indrocranation in general and I really enjoyed that thread. They never dismissed what I said just becuase I liked the ending or becuase I like IT. They challenged me and my points and I challenged theirs. 

If your not a troll, then please feel free to offer me another point of view as to what is going on in the ending that makes more sense than IT. I will gladly discuss it and if you make alot of sense I may drop IT. Till then I am not simply drop a theory becuase of "LOL IT so dumb' or "you just like IT becuase you hat the ending' I will continue in my belief that IT makes sense till either someone makes a better theory or bioware proves me wrong (which I personally always maintained is a possiblity, abit a slim one with evidence as is, but a posbility none the less)

And this "you're a troll if you don't provide an alternative that I like" is rather amusing...

[CavScout]

NReed106 wrote...

You can never 100% prove something Cav, your rebuttals are "well you don't know for sure" which is worse than using knowledge we have already gained to explain solutions to problems.  I can say if I drop a apple it will fall based on my past knowledge of how gravity works and my exp with it, much in the same manner people will take what is shown through ME and use common sense.  A relay exploding and destroying the Normandy in the explosion is good evidence that the relay's destruction was dangerous

And yes a plot hole can be defined as "Characters acting completely out of character."
http://tvtropes.org/...p/Main/PlotHole

So yes, squadmates teleporting and running away from Shep in his hour of need is def Out of Character and thus a plot hole

1) Russell's teapot
2) You're assuming teleportation and dereliction.

[NReed106]

CavScout wrote...

NReed106 wrote...

You can never 100% prove something Cav, your rebuttals are "well you don't know for sure" which is worse than using knowledge we have already gained to explain solutions to problems.  I can say if I drop a apple it will fall based on my past knowledge of how gravity works and my exp with it, much in the same manner people will take what is shown through ME and use common sense.  A relay exploding and destroying the Normandy in the explosion is good evidence that the relay's destruction was dangerous

And yes a plot hole can be defined as "Characters acting completely out of character."
http://tvtropes.org/...p/Main/PlotHole

So yes, squadmates teleporting and running away from Shep in his hour of need is def Out of Character and thus a plot hole

1) Russell's teapot
2) You're assuming teleportation and dereliction.

We have presented evidence, you simply dismiss it as "you can't know for sure" b/c the narrative provides little evidence, and the evidence it does supports plot hole problems such as the Normandy being destroyed by the blast supports the theory the explosions were damaging.

Seeing as at no point are squadmates told to leave it is a fair assumption.  I'm using common sense to dictate the problem, expecting an audience to make extraordinary leaps of thought to figure out massive problems is poor writing.  That said they left Shep even when he was alive.  That is out of character, that is a plot hole.

[CavScout]

NReed106 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

NReed106 wrote...

You can never 100% prove something Cav, your rebuttals are "well you don't know for sure" which is worse than using knowledge we have already gained to explain solutions to problems.  I can say if I drop a apple it will fall based on my past knowledge of how gravity works and my exp with it, much in the same manner people will take what is shown through ME and use common sense.  A relay exploding and destroying the Normandy in the explosion is good evidence that the relay's destruction was dangerous

And yes a plot hole can be defined as "Characters acting completely out of character."
http://tvtropes.org/...p/Main/PlotHole

So yes, squadmates teleporting and running away from Shep in his hour of need is def Out of Character and thus a plot hole

1) Russell's teapot
2) You're assuming teleportation and dereliction.

We have presented evidence, you simply dismiss it as "you can't know for sure" b/c the narrative provides little evidence, and the evidence it does supports plot hole problems such as the Normandy being destroyed by the blast supports the theory the explosions were damaging.

You're not presenting evidence. Evidence would be something along the lines of something stating indoctrination is happening. You assume indoctrination is happening and say random things are evidence for it.

Seeing as at no point are squadmates told to leave it is a fair assumption.  I'm using common sense to dictate the problem, expecting an audience to make extraordinary leaps of thought to figure out massive problems is poor writing.  That said they left Shep even when he was alive.  That is out of character, that is a plot hole.

You're assuming a lot (but this is not uncommon amongst the Indoctrination Theory folk). But you have to.

You proclaim common sense yet you make "extraordinary leaps of thought" to construct indoctrination theory.

PS: You don't know what a plot hole is....

[Lethys1]

Basically anyone who argues the Indoc Theory always says things that would be true if Shep were indoctrinated, but actually prove nothing unto themselves. There hasn't been a single piece of truth that points without a doubt that Shep is indoctrinated. They just give examples of things that would be cool to look at with the idea in your head that he is being indoctrinated. The kid, the crucible, waking up in rubble, none of these things themselves actually prove Indoc Theory.

There are plenty of subjects where information can support a standpoint which isn't true.

On the contrary, there are many pieces of evidence specifically stating he is not indoctrinated. When hard evidence disproves a loose theory, the theory is thrown out. Such as the topic of this thread, the dialog box at the end confirming that the Reaper threat is destroyed, the way Bioware is handling all of this (didn't expect backlash), the fact that they would not sell us a game without an end (if IT is true, then there is no end).

Honestly this new clarification DLC is as a result of backlash and if it weren't, it would have been announced sooner and differently. This type of press is bad press, and they don't want it. They're already in the press, so the statement bad press>no press does not apply.

[NReed106]

CavScout wrote...

NReed106 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

NReed106 wrote...

You can never 100% prove something Cav, your rebuttals are "well you don't know for sure" which is worse than using knowledge we have already gained to explain solutions to problems.  I can say if I drop a apple it will fall based on my past knowledge of how gravity works and my exp with it, much in the same manner people will take what is shown through ME and use common sense.  A relay exploding and destroying the Normandy in the explosion is good evidence that the relay's destruction was dangerous

And yes a plot hole can be defined as "Characters acting completely out of character."
http://tvtropes.org/...p/Main/PlotHole

So yes, squadmates teleporting and running away from Shep in his hour of need is def Out of Character and thus a plot hole

1) Russell's teapot
2) You're assuming teleportation and dereliction.

We have presented evidence, you simply dismiss it as "you can't know for sure" b/c the narrative provides little evidence, and the evidence it does supports plot hole problems such as the Normandy being destroyed by the blast supports the theory the explosions were damaging.

You're not presenting evidence. Evidence would be something along the lines of something stating indoctrination is happening. You assume indoctrination is happening and say random things are evidence for it.

Seeing as at no point are squadmates told to leave it is a fair assumption.  I'm using common sense to dictate the problem, expecting an audience to make extraordinary leaps of thought to figure out massive problems is poor writing.  That said they left Shep even when he was alive.  That is out of character, that is a plot hole.

You're assuming a lot (but this is not uncommon amongst the Indoctrination Theory folk). But you have to.

You proclaim common sense yet you make "extraordinary leaps of thought" to construct indoctrination theory.

PS: You don't know what a plot hole is....

I haven't supported the Indoc theory, I am merely pointing out that there is evidence for plot holes that you dismiss despite common sense dictating they are plot holes.  As I stated before, I think the evidence for the Indoc theory is coincidence of a lost plot line (Indoctration was mentioned as a possiblity in the Final Hours app, but they said it was dismissed). 

By all means enlighten us what constitutes a plot hole, I've already read TV tropes I'm sure you are much more qualified to teach people how Out of Character Actions are not plot holes.

[CavScout]

NReed106 wrote...
I haven't supported the Indoc theory, I am merely pointing out that there is evidence for plot holes that you dismiss despite common sense dictating they are plot holes.  As I stated before, I think the evidence for the Indoc theory is coincidence of a lost plot line (Indoctration was mentioned as a possiblity in the Final Hours app, but they said it was dismissed). 

By all means enlighten us what constitutes a plot hole, I've already read TV tropes I'm sure you are much more qualified to teach people how Out of Character Actions are not plot holes.

Appeals to "common sense"....  /facepalm

So called "plot holes" are shown why they're not plot holes. Plot holes are not things you dislike; they're not even things that are unexplained. It needs to work against the plot or be something missing that is "essential to the story's outcome". You haven't shown anything like that. You have a couple of things that are unexplained and some things folks don't like.