300 réponses à ce sujet

[Esoretal]

Agent_Dark_ wrote...

Lethys1 wrote...
Why, then, with a low Effective Military Score (between 0-1749) is the destroy option the only one that is offered?

Isn't that option actually decided by whether you kept or destroyed the Collector Base in ME2?  If you destroyed the Collector Base, then your only ME3 Low War Asset option is to Destroy the Reapers.  If you kept it, your only option is to Control.  I'm guessing most people destroyed the Collector Base in their game, which is why they are assuming the only option is Destroy when your assets are too low.


So maybe, since Shepard is so under prepared for the final fight, that the only thing she can comprehend is what's worked in the past. But ultimately the Indoctrination attempt on Shepard is pointless - the Reapers can just blow away the Alliance fleet because it's not powerful enough.

Yes, someone else told me their only option with low EMS after keeping the Collector Base was Control, as well. I found that very interesting. It makes sense, considering keeping the CB is seen as siding more with TIM whereas destroying it is going against him.

But... why would it even matter what your final option is, if they all end the same way, anyway? Why would those past choices have implications in the final choice? Nothing in a game is accidental; they coded it specifically this way for a reason. It all seems rather pointless to do that if they wanted it all to end the same way.

[ryuasiu]

CavScout wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

CavScout wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

lordofdogtown19 wrote...

Eh no theory is infallible, that's why it's a theory. It still makes more sense than the endings, sadly.

Anyway I think both sides have good arguments. For me I think you shouldn't get the best ending anyway if you don't have the highest EMS so I don't think this disproves IT completely

The best argument I'd heard was if you have a lower EMS then you've done less in the game and pretty much blazed through it so the indoctrination process just didn't have time to fully seed itself into Shepard's head.  And that on its own makes sense.

Yes it makes total sense to say that if you skip the war preparations and just go to the end with a poorly built military force that it makes it easier to win.

These words you mention.  They are not native to my mouth.

I didn't say that.  I said that it makes it easier to fight the reaper's influence on the mind.  What it comes down to is you have a weaker military with stronger personal mental strength against the reapers vs. stronger military with more time for the reapers to influence Shepard's mind.

So yeah, weaker military = easier win.

actually not easier to win, becuase he would die trying to fight their influance. Also keep in mind they are not talking about Military strength, Millitary strength does not matter in the fight for Shepards mind (might though in the DLC and the actual fights) As you travel gathering resources you are using up TIME. time that the reapers are using to play with your mind. The more time they have to push themselves on you the harder it is to fight. Thats why synthesis is aquired at highes EMS. Having the most effective military has nothing to do with easily lossing, its about letting the reapers have the most time to try to convince you to become fully indoc

[Sirartistic]

I thought they said that a low ems = destruction of everything?

[Sefriol]

Everyone who's defending IT is just wrong. Simple as that. They are ignoring all the key evidence agaist it. Main evidence is that there isn't any major lead to make theory true.
Theories' main thread was full of BS. Haters, don't waste your time retelling them.

And why are we still talking about this? All these "facts" have been know all the time. Before Bioware confirms / denies / releases new DLC we cannot settle this. And when it happens there's still going to be whining and hate from either side.

[Cucobr]

Again?

again?

AGAIN?!?!

I am already tired of answering the same question.

Here's a hint of the answer: Your Shepard dies in Mass Effect 2? WTF??! What the hell is he doing in Mass Effect 3?


and it's all folks..sorry...I tired of answering in 25 lines of text... and a guy ask again talking: HEY HEY HEY I BROKE INDOCTRINATION THEORY HAHA1!!1! 

Modifié par Cucobr, 27 mars 2012 - 12:49 .

[Sirartistic]

Also, you guys are forgetting one major thing. If you have a low ems, you will NOT get the ending where Shepard awakes! That means he died.

[Leafs43]

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

If you don't wake up i.e. get the breathing ending, it means while you resisted the reapers indoctrination but in the end it killed you because it made your brain pudding.

The Reapers are still dead....

If its all in your head, they are very much alive.

It seems that indoctrination is the excuse for anything that tears apart the Indoctrination Theory....

So, you don't understand the theory is what you are saying, because from the very beginning indotrination theory states anything after the Harbinger beam = all in Shepherd's mind as Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate him.

[ryuasiu]

Sefriol wrote...

Everyone who's defending IT is just wrong. Simple as that. They are ignoring all the key evidence agaist it. Main evidence is that there isn't any major lead to make theory true.
Theories' main thread was full of BS. Haters, don't waste your time retelling them.

And why are we still talking about this? All these "facts" have been know all the time. Before Bioware confirms / denies / releases new DLC we cannot settle this. And when it happens there's still going to be whining and hate from either side.

Actually there is a MAJOR lead. Watch the dreams, You are Surounded by "oily shadows". Kid dispears you hear a growl, established in the books as a sign that a reaper hallucinations broke. Come join us on the IT thread, you might learn alot about these leads that dont exist 

Modifié par ryuasiu, 27 mars 2012 - 12:54 .

[ryuasiu]

Cucobr wrote...

Again?

again?

AGAIN?!?!

I am already tired of answering the same question.

Here's a hint of the answer: Your Shepard dies in Mass Effect 2? WTF??! What the hell is he doing in Mass Effect 3?


and it's all folks..sorry...I tired of answering in 25 lines of text... and a guy ask again talking: HEY HEY HEY I BROKE INDOCTRINATION THEORY HAHA1!!1! 

I think your the first to seem to imply you think the entire deal in 3 was indoc. Unless your being sarcastic, in which I could not tell.

[FellishBeast]

Well you're looking at this the wrong way. Why would synthesis require more EMS? Why would EMS have any bearing on what the Crucible can do? Answer me this, then we can get on to the particulars...

Modifié par FellishBeast, 27 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[Auralius Carolus]

A couple of possible answers to that:

#1. Someone who finishes with low assets is presumably more keen on finishing the game and less concerned with beating around the bush. Destroying the Reapers is in-line with the linear thinking and direct, aggressive behavior that is often attributed to such people, (at least while gaming). The "action" Shepard is also more keen to acts of aggression and Renegade choices, which also falls in line with this thinking.

#2. If the Indoctrination Theory is true, then it may be understood that Bioware would want everyone who completed the game to have a chance at "truly" finishing with the DLC. A "You fail. Go back and get assets" pop up isn't exactly clever for low-end finishers. Along this logic, those with higher assets are not to simply recieve a "Wrong Choice. You Lose" message upon activating DLC, having chosen Control or Synth. They may suffer losses of companions, forces, etc. or find the resulting deepening of Indoctrination more difficult to play with, but the higher assets afford them the screw up, (think ME2. Even with no additional work, you can finish. Likewise you can lose people with bad choices with all additional work complete). People who completed with plenty of assets may also be presumed more thoughtful/given time for further indoctrination allowing the opening up of "Blue" and "Green".

These two proposals are not mutually exclusive and would still not break the lore.

Modifié par Auralius Carolus, 27 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[CavScout]

Sirartistic wrote...

Also, you guys are forgetting one major thing. If you have a low ems, you will NOT get the ending where Shepard awakes! That means he died.

Yet the Reapers are still destroyed. That's a win.

[The Smitchens]

FellishBeast wrote...

Well you're looking at this the wrong way. Why would synthesis require more EMS? Why would EMS have any bearing on what the Crucible can do? Answer me this, then we can get on to the particulars...

The EMS also serves as an estimate on how much time has passed since ME3 began.  It doesn't have a direct influence on the capabilities of the crucible, but rather gives an idea of how much time the crucible has had to worm itself into Shepard's mind.

[CavScout]

Leafs43 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

If you don't wake up i.e. get the breathing ending, it means while you resisted the reapers indoctrination but in the end it killed you because it made your brain pudding.

The Reapers are still dead....

If its all in your head, they are very much alive.

It seems that indoctrination is the excuse for anything that tears apart the Indoctrination Theory....

So, you don't understand the theory is what you are saying, because from the very beginning indotrination theory states anything after the Harbinger beam = all in Shepherd's mind as Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate him.

Indoctrination Theory is saying everything from the beginning is in his head...

[stcalvin13]

I suspect that they may have *wanted* people to speculate that it was indoctrination, without giving a yes or no answer on it. After all, the stargazer scene basically just took back everything you did with it's "some of the details have been lost" line. I think that for all their talk of closure they just didn't want to close anything off. Which is bull.

[liggy002]

Lethys1 wrote...

SC0TTYD00 wrote...

Because, the reapers dont really care about Indoctrinating you as much. EMS is so low and your armies are so weak that they know they have won anyway whether they indoctrinate you or not.

So then why even present this to you in the first place instead of just killing you?  It's a lot of pomp and circumstance to just present you lightly with the idea that everyone died.

Yet wouldn't the reapers bask in your negative emotion at the destruction of earth, Harbinger in particular?  This answer doesn't make sense and doesnt fit the MO of reapers.

Because Harbinger is an evil bastard.  He wants you to believe you can win even though there is absolutely no way that you can.

[The Smitchens]

CavScout wrote...

Sirartistic wrote...

Also, you guys are forgetting one major thing. If you have a low ems, you will NOT get the ending where Shepard awakes! That means he died.

Yet the Reapers are still destroyed. That's a win.

Well... this is where speculation rears its ugly face again.  Technically we're only shown that he lives with the 5k EMS and destroy ending.  He could still have survived with lower EMS scores, but they simply wouldn't have revealed it to us.  Again.  Speculation, I know.  But what else can we do here?

[agathokakological]

Low enough EMS means the Reapers have already won by the time Shepard would wake up. In a timeline, this would look like...

Shepard's knocked out -> Reapers kill everything -> Shepard wakes up

The evidence of Shepard waking up with high EMS is that there is a correct way to play-- one that yields a high EMS. This makes perfect sense, and explains why a low EMS would lead to a bad ending like the one i just outlined. That's why multiplayer puts your EMS on a curve. Say you want to eliminate all the geth, but that hurts your EMS by a lot. You can eliminate the geth and still beat the Reapers/indoctrination, if you play multiplayer.

Basically, the goal is to have a high EMS AND choose Destroy. Those two things combined will lead to the true ending.

[Cucobr]

ryuasiu wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Again?

again?

AGAIN?!?!

I am already tired of answering the same question.

Here's a hint of the answer: Your Shepard dies in Mass Effect 2? WTF??! What the hell is he doing in Mass Effect 3?


and it's all folks..sorry...I tired of answering in 25 lines of text... and a guy ask again talking: HEY HEY HEY I BROKE INDOCTRINATION THEORY HAHA1!!1! 

I think your the first to seem to imply you think the entire deal in 3 was indoc. Unless your being sarcastic, in which I could not tell.

No...

The answer for the question of OP, in a short way, is:

There's things in the game that you was supposed to do.

Exemple: Don't let Shepard die in ME2... the same logic applies here. you supposed to  put together a great army before going into the final battle on Earth.

[The Smitchens]

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

If you don't wake up i.e. get the breathing ending, it means while you resisted the reapers indoctrination but in the end it killed you because it made your brain pudding.

The Reapers are still dead....

If its all in your head, they are very much alive.

It seems that indoctrination is the excuse for anything that tears apart the Indoctrination Theory....

So, you don't understand the theory is what you are saying, because from the very beginning indotrination theory states anything after the Harbinger beam = all in Shepherd's mind as Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate him.

Indoctrination Theory is saying everything from the beginning is in his head...

No.  Indoctrination theory says that everything from Harbinger's beam on is in his head.  The influence of indoctrination prior to that is all in subtlety.  It's not blatant.  It's all background stuff that you have to go looking for.  Like a puzzle.

[The Smitchens]

agathokakological wrote...

Low enough EMS means the Reapers have already won by the time Shepard would wake up. In a timeline, this would look like...

Shepard's knocked out -> Reapers kill everything -> Shepard wakes up

The evidence of Shepard waking up with high EMS is that there is a correct way to play-- one that yields a high EMS. This makes perfect sense, and explains why a low EMS would lead to a bad ending like the one i just outlined. That's why multiplayer puts your EMS on a curve. Say you want to eliminate all the geth, but that hurts your EMS by a lot. You can eliminate the geth and still beat the Reapers/indoctrination, if you play multiplayer.

Basically, the goal is to have a high EMS AND choose Destroy. Those two things combined will lead to the true ending.

That's a good argument against what I'd just said earlier.

[liggy002]

There is no way to disprove the indoctrination theory just as there is no way to prove it either. You can try to throw all of the evidence and logic you want at it but it won't make a difference until Bioware makes an official announcement in April.

Modifié par liggy002, 27 mars 2012 - 01:07 .

[CavScout]

agathokakological wrote...

Low enough EMS means the Reapers have already won by the time Shepard would wake up. In a timeline, this would look like...

Shepard's knocked out -> Reapers kill everything -> Shepard wakes up

The evidence of Shepard waking up with high EMS is that there is a correct way to play-- one that yields a high EMS. This makes perfect sense, and explains why a low EMS would lead to a bad ending like the one i just outlined. That's why multiplayer puts your EMS on a curve. Say you want to eliminate all the geth, but that hurts your EMS by a lot. You can eliminate the geth and still beat the Reapers/indoctrination, if you play multiplayer.

Basically, the goal is to have a high EMS AND choose Destroy. Those two things combined will lead to the true ending.

What makes you think the other two endings aren't "true"?

[Deganis76]

The reason I disagree with indoctrination is this: wouldn't it have been a heck of a lot easier for Harbinger to just shoot a second death ray to vaporize Shepard and be done with it?

[CavScout]

The Smitchens wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

If you don't wake up i.e. get the breathing ending, it means while you resisted the reapers indoctrination but in the end it killed you because it made your brain pudding.

The Reapers are still dead....

If its all in your head, they are very much alive.

It seems that indoctrination is the excuse for anything that tears apart the Indoctrination Theory....

So, you don't understand the theory is what you are saying, because from the very beginning indotrination theory states anything after the Harbinger beam = all in Shepherd's mind as Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate him.

Indoctrination Theory is saying everything from the beginning is in his head...

No.  Indoctrination theory says that everything from Harbinger's beam on is in his head.  The influence of indoctrination prior to that is all in subtlety.  It's not blatant.  It's all background stuff that you have to go looking for.  Like a puzzle.

Indoctrination Theory says that nothing can invalidate Indoctrination Theory because it will just be attributed to Indoctrination Theory. You have folks setting up Indoctrination Theory being prove by Indoctrination Theory.