218 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

It fits enough to work, and it makes the endings less crappy. I'll take whatever I can get.

I'm still kind of on the fence with that. It's almost absurdly bizarre how many plot holes and nonsensical jargon is thrown in the last 20 minutes. It leans towards indoctrination. Or...

It's what everyone else has been raging about for the last 20 days. Bad writing, yadda yadda.

[CroGamer002]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The indoctrination theory.

It fits enough to work, and it makes the endings less crappy.  I'll take whatever I can get.

Cheez, just no.

That theory is even worse then actual endings.

[bleachorange]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The indoctrination theory.

It fits enough to work, and it makes the endings less crappy.  I'll take whatever I can get.

That's how many feel about it - it's the last bastion before we get to Bioware effing up things so bad we can't believe they can handle this stuff anymore. That said, if I were EA/BIoware faced with this amount of backlash, I would have announced the ace up my sleeve by now if I had one. Perhaps that there was always and endings disc, and you only get a one-time coupon for it by registering you game on BSN/Origin or something, and redeeming at your local store/dlc.

That opens up another can of worms, but whatever. I think the entire situation has been botched, much like the ending, and I won't buy more Bioware/EA unless these crap endings are fixed for free. I'll have to suffer along without Madden, and Bioware titles, but I can do that. I'd prefer to keep my money and possibly miss out, than trhrow good money after bad.

[Icinix]

Mesina2 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The indoctrination theory.

It fits enough to work, and it makes the endings less crappy.  I'll take whatever I can get.

Cheez, just no.

That theory is even worse then actual endings.

..but as a device to buy time to finish / make the real endings....its genius. In a crazy, backhanded kind of way.

[the red boon]

tommythetomcat wrote...

It's a deadline they couldn't meet, they threw out an entire idea for the ending as late as November. I have no doubt we would of had a great ending if the game was delayed for another 3 months.

Sometimes I wonder if it was time constraints or budget. I honestly question the many trailers that came out for this game, was it over prioritized marketing taking away from development. 

[luzburg]

i think so for the ending bioware and its writers arent imune to doing bad work

[Belizarius]

I always thought the Indoctrination Theory was rubbish, but after watching this vid I at least could accept it as a possibility...but if Bioware pulls that stunt on us with a DLC, they are stupid gits!

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

Not really, there are just as many plotholes in the indoctrination theory.  And it is even worse having an unconclusive ending without any actual choice (since the only one is destroy).

The catch with indoctrination theory is that the "real" ending is still to come.  By passing the Catalyst's test, Shepard overcomes the final temptation, but the battle is not yet over.

I find it disappointing that so many are supporting this theory, all you are doing is giving Bioware a free pass.

We're not.  What we're doing is giving Bioware an easy and relatively believable way to "fix" the ending without having to redo the entire endgame sequence (because they can, instead, add to it).  What was originally really bad writing would become a clever narrative trick.

But like I said, it requires (FREE!) ending DLC to work.

[bleachorange]

Belizarius wrote...

I always thought the Indoctrination Theory was rubbish, but after watching this vid I at least could accept it as a possibility...but if Bioware pulls that stunt on us with a DLC, they are stupid gits!

Yeah, well, I didn't mind the DLC in ME2. But I'm no longer allowing EA to string me along with that crap - it should be in the game to start with, sorta like the climax and resolution...

[AdmiralCheez]

Mesina2 wrote...

Cheez, just no.

That theory is even worse then actual endings.

Why?  Because if it were true, you'd have to admit that you'd been played for a sucker along with Shepard?

See, if it's not true, then I was played for a sucker regardless.  Just not in a fun way.

[Thornquist]

I wouldnt call it bad writing. I'd call it bad planning.

[bleachorange]

Arcian wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The indoctrination theory.

It fits enough to work, and it makes the endings less crappy.  I'll take whatever I can get.

Fits? Really? How do people constantly forget that it's impossible to break free from indoctrination? It's not harmless hypnosis that can be stopped with a finger snap, but permanently brain-damaging mind control. No matter what Shep does, s/he will wake up as a Reaper slave forced to be put down by his/her allies.

This is even worse than the endings we got.

And yet we have Shiala, the green-skinned asari, on Feros to disprove that.

[AdmiralCheez]

Arcian wrote...

Fits? Really? How do people constantly forget that it's impossible to break free from indoctrination? It's not harmless hypnosis that can be stopped with a finger snap, but permanently brain-damaging mind control. No matter what Shep does, s/he will wake up as a Reaper slave forced to be put down by his/her allies.

This is even worse than the endings we got.

Shepard was brought back from the dead.  I'm willing to believe that she can break free of brain-damaging alien mind control if she can come back from the dead.

And seriously, it helps me sleep at night if I believe that the stupid Starkid was just another form of Harby's incessant taunting all along.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Cheez, just no.

That theory is even worse then actual endings.

Why?  Because if it were true, you'd have to admit that you'd been played for a sucker along with Shepard?

See, if it's not true, then I was played for a sucker regardless.  Just not in a fun way.

Only the latter will happen Cheez. If the indoctrination theory is true then we will just get a mindless just-before-ending moment instead.

I would rather have that they fixed the current endings. And perhaps even let us be able to prevent the Normandy being stranded and possibly even save the relays.

[Ieldra]

Skyblade012 wrote...
This is just too perfect to be unplanned.  This was deliberate and direct attempt to assassinate the series, and I have to say, it worked.

It certainly looks that way. But remember Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Or rather, in this case, incompetence.

I don't know what to think, but that insider info that Mac Walters and Casey Hudson may have put this together without input from the team is something to think about. It would explain a great deal. They destroyed the players' games in order to tell the story they wanted. They made Shepard act out of character two times: first by not challenging the Catalyst, then by not remembering his LI if it wasn't Liara.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 mars 2012 - 10:56 .

[Elevas]

DaeJi wrote...

It's either horrid writing or we just spent $60 to $80 dollars (US) on an unfinished game.

US$110-150 if you have the temerity to live outside the US.

[Evil_medved]

Arcian wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The indoctrination theory.

It fits enough to work, and it makes the endings less crappy.  I'll take whatever I can get.

Fits? Really? How do people constantly forget that it's impossible to break free from indoctrination? It's not harmless hypnosis that can be stopped with a finger snap, but permanently brain-damaging mind control. No matter what Shep does, s/he will wake up as a Reaper slave forced to be put down by his/her allies.

This is even worse than the endings we got.

Saren, TIM and Benezia beg to differ. You can break from it for a time. I just need 10 minutes to blow harbinger to pieces.

Modifié par Evil_medved, 26 mars 2012 - 10:57 .

[poundoffleshaa]

It isn't impossible to break indoctrination Saren managed it long enough to kill himself so given the general badasness of Shepard it is even likely.

[bleachorange]

Arcian wrote...

bleachorange wrote...
And yet we have Shiala, the green-skinned asari, on Feros to disprove that.

Shiala is in a unique position - she is still indoctrinated and can still hear the Reapers in ME3, but the thorian spores connecting her to the Zhu's Hope colonists overrides the control by indoctrination.

Shepard's in a unique position - being brought back from the dead tends to do that to people. I hear they even had to rewrite the Alliance tax code.

Once you bring people back from the dead, is a little anti-reaper mojo such a stretch?

Modifié par bleachorange, 26 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

Only the latter will happen Cheez. If the indoctrination theory is true then we will just get a mindless just-before-ending moment instead.

WHICH WOULD BE FIXED WITH DLC.  FREE ENDING DLC IS CRUCIAL FOR INDOCTRINATION THEORY TO WORK.  A KEYSTONE OF THE THEORY IS THAT THE "REAL" ENDING IS ON THE WAY.

Caps because I said it before, and you missed it.  Not actually "yelling" here.

I would rather have that they fixed the current endings. And perhaps even let us be able to prevent the Normandy being stranded and possibly even save the relays.

Indoc theory would be a "fix" because it would mean that the last ten minutes of the game didn't actually happen.  It would then give you a do-over.  Not the ONLY way to fix things, but it's a fan-made solution that works.

Honestly, I'd rather they redesign the whole endgame sequence.  Keep some parts (like the final conversation with Anderson), scrap others (Stargazer), and completely overhaul what's left over (Catalyst).

BUT CASEY WON'T BECAUSE IT'S HIS PRECIOUS BABY.

Look, I've been in that spot before.  I know what it's like to be really proud of something.  I know how hurtful it is when everyone tells you that the thing you're proud of sucks and needs to be fixed.  But I also have the ARTISTIC INTEGRITY to recognize my own shortcomings when I see them, and, if I have to, GO BACK AND FIX MY MISTAKES.

YOU DIG, CASEY?

[Nimrodell]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Cheez, just no.

That theory is even worse then actual endings.

Why?  Because if it were true, you'd have to admit that you'd been played for a sucker along with Shepard?

See, if it's not true, then I was played for a sucker regardless.  Just not in a fun way.

Dear Cheez, that's not the reason. The problem with IT is that entire ME3 needs redoing then or it'll carry as many plot holes during the game itself like it has now during those misfortunate 15 minutes at the end. If Shepard was slowly indoctrinated as some suggest, then it would mean s/he is less strong-willed than Paul Grayson (that actually hears Reaper commands and has no control of his body in some parts of the novel), Benezia and Shiala - and I won't go into saying that Shepard is like Amanda Kenson or Rhana Tanoptis or any of those workers we heard during The Arrival. In all these cases though, Reapers were taking active control by comforting their victims into thoughts that the Reapers are actually bringers of greater good - apart from Paul Grayson, there they were more aggressive. Saren and TIM are both lulled by Reapers into thinking they are actually omnipotent, giving them false feeling of knowledge and strength thus deceiving them into doing their exact plan. None of this happens with our Shepards during the game - and in dreams we just hear the voices of those we lost, each dead person, new voice in the next dream... This can be distorted by saying that Reapers were hitting on Shepard's moral 'cause s/he was symbol of hope, but that's really overstretching it. None of the Shepard's crew was reporting Shepard's strange behaviour unlike Reaper IFF science crew reporting dr. Chandana or crew of Amanda Kenson... one would think that at least Liara that was coupled with Shepard would notice something.

As for instant indoctrination... well, that's really overstreching it - there we have another form of sudden space magic, better said, Reaper magic... it's like Sheldon was a Harbinger and did his Bazinga! move. And the strangest thing is, according to all IT versions, Reapers love making movies about our crewmates, relays exploding and old man with his grandson many years after... and even EMS affects their decision if they'll offer us only 'destroy' or other endings - meaning, it's better to have lowest EMS 'cause then that instantly we're freed from Reaper's clutches... So, no, dear Cheez, that's not why Arcian and Mesina2 are saying this. Anyway, I'm just glad seeing you back on boards, it is refreshing indeed. Now let's see if Saphra Deden will emerge from some hellhole, poking us all and telling - you lower beings, I told you ti was all bad writing. lol