218 réponses à ce sujet

[Tritium315]

I knew the answer was yes before I even clicked on the thread.

[zarnk567]

Bad writing is bad writing..... and this is bad writing pure and simple.

[omntt]

Yes it's really bad and throws away everything you liked about the trilogy.
But hey at least we got colours, deep thoughts and spacekids, and don't let me talk about the renessaince the galaxy will have after Shepard's struggle, starting with the crew we used to love.

[malra]

this was definately torch the franchise and run. no one wanted obsidian or some other smaller studio to come along and do something more meaningful in this universe.

[Sepharih]

Arcian wrote...
What I refuse to believe is that Shepard is capable of rejecting it, because according to EVERY SINGLE REFERENCE TO INDOCTRINATION, that's not possible. Once you're indoctrinated, you can't become unindoctrinateed. Simply. Not. Possible.

I can buy an ending where Shepard wakes up and is controlled by the Reapers, and where he/she tries to fight his/her allies and ends up shot. I can buy that Shepard, in this wounded state, manages to temporarily "snap out of it" for a few minutes, long enough to fire the Crucible, after which he/she asks a friend/LI to shoot him/her in the head to free him/her from the Reapers.

The problem with this is that there is literally NO ROOM for a Golden "Happy" Ending for Shepard, and I believe this game should have that if you maxed out the Total Military Strength.

THAT is why I hate this sh!tty theory.

2 thoughts:

1.  Isn't the whole point of Indoctrination theory that Shepard isn't actually indoctrinated yet?  IE, if you choose destroy, he resists indoctrination and holds onto his free will.

2. Is there established lore on how indoctrination works when every last reaper in the known universe is destroyed?

[Quietness]

zarnk567 wrote...

Bad writing is bad writing..... and this is bad writing pure and simple.

[Shinwolverine]

Fanfiction levels of writing going on in me3

[mattynutz]

Yes. This was a failure in the creative and editing process. This is what happens when you villify people for criticism as "being negative." Criticism is not negative. It is positive, it desires the best possible results. But egos get in the way of that when those egos have power. And that is what happened here. Too much ego, too little listening.

[AntonioA9011]

Not an appropriate topic of discussion

End of line.

[DuncanId]

Of course not. This is VERY bad writing.

[Stygian1]

Yep. Just bad bad writing.

[EliteOp-11]

Its like they couldnt think of a way to make all your choices matter, so they just give us the cliche sacrifice ending.

[zarnk567]

EliteOp-11 wrote...

Its like they couldnt think of a way to make all your choices matter, so they just give us the cliche sacrifice ending.

That's exactly what Bioware did....  they wanted it to feel "bitter sweet" but it only ended up invalidating everything Shapard fought for in all the previous games and the majority of this one..... In most "bitter sweet" endings the Hero dies to protect what he fought for, what he cared about, for what he believes in or at least leaves the world/universe a better place.... but the way they had Shepard die kinda went against everything Shepard believed, cared about or fought for and he did not leave the universe much better off.....

Modifié par zarnk567, 26 mars 2012 - 04:30 .

[bleachorange]

Arcian wrote...

TIM was indoctrinated, just not to the point where the Reapers could control him. Over time, TIM began to expose himself to their technology, making the indoctrination stronger and allowing the Reapers to influence him more and more. Towards the end of ME3, he has been fully indoctrinated.

Nowhere during this period did he "overcome" his indoctrination. Until the end of ME3, he wasn't even aware he was being indoctrinated at all. They made him think he was in complete control.

He was in complete control - until he tried to 'improve' himself by using reaper tech at the end of me3, per the video logs. don't tell me the reapers let him stop them in me2 all those times. that would be illogical, and not like the reapers at all.

[AntonioA9011]

zarnk567 wrote...

EliteOp-11 wrote...

Its like they couldnt think of a way to make all your choices matter, so they just give us the cliche sacrifice ending.

That's exactly what Bioware did....  they wanted it to feel "bitter sweet" but it only ended up invalidating everything Shapard fought for in all the previous games and the majority of this one..... In most "bitter sweet" endings the Hero dies to protect what he fought for, what he cared about, or for what he believes in.... but the way they had shepard die kinda went against everything Shepard believed, cared about or fought for...

So, in essence, render the trilogy moot, then? What I'm saying is even if Shepard landed on Eden Prime and jumped off of a cliff, wouldn't the same result be achieved?

[zarnk567]

AntonioA9011 wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

EliteOp-11 wrote...

Its like they couldnt think of a way to make all your choices matter, so they just give us the cliche sacrifice ending.

That's exactly what Bioware did....  they wanted it to feel "bitter sweet" but it only ended up invalidating everything Shapard fought for in all the previous games and the majority of this one..... In most "bitter sweet" endings the Hero dies to protect what he fought for, what he cared about, or for what he believes in.... but the way they had shepard die kinda went against everything Shepard believed, cared about or fought for...

So, in essence, render the trilogy moot, then? What I'm saying is even if Shepard landed on Eden Prime and jumped off of a cliff, wouldn't the same result be achieved?

.......... Yea, baiscally....... God that's depressing..... 

[bleachorange]

Sepharih wrote...

Arcian wrote...
What I refuse to believe is that Shepard is capable of rejecting it, because according to EVERY SINGLE REFERENCE TO INDOCTRINATION, that's not possible. Once you're indoctrinated, you can't become unindoctrinateed. Simply. Not. Possible.

I can buy an ending where Shepard wakes up and is controlled by the Reapers, and where he/she tries to fight his/her allies and ends up shot. I can buy that Shepard, in this wounded state, manages to temporarily "snap out of it" for a few minutes, long enough to fire the Crucible, after which he/she asks a friend/LI to shoot him/her in the head to free him/her from the Reapers.

The problem with this is that there is literally NO ROOM for a Golden "Happy" Ending for Shepard, and I believe this game should have that if you maxed out the Total Military Strength.

THAT is why I hate this sh!tty theory.

2 thoughts:

1.  Isn't the whole point of Indoctrination theory that Shepard isn't actually indoctrinated yet?  IE, if you choose destroy, he resists indoctrination and holds onto his free will.

2. Is there established lore on how indoctrination works when every last reaper in the known universe is destroyed?

yes, to #1. as for #2, how can all the reapers be destroyed if it was all an indoctrinated hallucination?

[bleachorange]

AntonioA9011 wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

EliteOp-11 wrote...

Its like they couldnt think of a way to make all your choices matter, so they just give us the cliche sacrifice ending.

That's exactly what Bioware did....  they wanted it to feel "bitter sweet" but it only ended up invalidating everything Shapard fought for in all the previous games and the majority of this one..... In most "bitter sweet" endings the Hero dies to protect what he fought for, what he cared about, or for what he believes in.... but the way they had shepard die kinda went against everything Shepard believed, cared about or fought for...

So, in essence, render the trilogy moot, then? What I'm saying is even if Shepard landed on Eden Prime and jumped off of a cliff, wouldn't the same result be achieved?

pretty much. the difference in outcomes is like the difference between legion and edi - many people in one body versus having your own, or something like that.

[AntonioA9011]

zarnk567 wrote...

AntonioA9011 wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

EliteOp-11 wrote...

Its like they couldnt think of a way to make all your choices matter, so they just give us the cliche sacrifice ending.

That's exactly what Bioware did....  they wanted it to feel "bitter sweet" but it only ended up invalidating everything Shapard fought for in all the previous games and the majority of this one..... In most "bitter sweet" endings the Hero dies to protect what he fought for, what he cared about, or for what he believes in.... but the way they had shepard die kinda went against everything Shepard believed, cared about or fought for...

So, in essence, render the trilogy moot, then? What I'm saying is even if Shepard landed on Eden Prime and jumped off of a cliff, wouldn't the same result be achieved?

.......... Yea, baiscally....... God that's depressing..... 

It is very depressing. I feel like I've wasted my time. There were good times, sure. But, with that in mind, the series now packs less of a punch. I intially thought BioWare was going to do the whole Alien 3 thing on us, and have Commander Shepard sacrifice him/herself in order to preserve what he/she fought for. At least we'll get some closure. But it's almost like if Commander Shepard never existed, then the end result would be the same. Or if he/she was killed on Akuze.

[dfstone]

It is bad writing. The plot holes, the contradictions, the last minute characters never introduced before...thats the mark of an amateur. ME1 and ME2 certainly weren't Shakespeare or anything, but the story was solid and there were few things to nit-pick. The stories had a flow and style to them that was unique.  ME3 diverges so much from it that it just becomes so obvious that whoever wrote it had little to nothing to do with the writing of the first 2.

Modifié par dfstone, 26 mars 2012 - 04:39 .

[AntonioA9011]

Arcian wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

Arcian wrote...

No they did not, Shiala-CloneNr1 spoke on its behalf.

I disagree. The clone was the conduit, in the renegade option. Shiala shares the experience with you through asari mind-melding in the paragon option. either way, it leaves a deep imprint on your psyche, allowing you to interpret the beacon. you really think thinking differently isn't a big deal? look at the prothean VI on thessia - it recognizes you as different. look how you interact with javik - your magical psychotouch powers indicate something different. it's all there - you're just ignoring the parts that disagree with you.

That is the Prothean Cipher, and it provides absolutely zero resistance to indoctrination. The reason Shiala remains in control of herself is not because of the Cipher, but because of the Thorian's spores, which Shepard was never infected with. Mind-melding is the transfer of biological information - it cannot pass on physical spores.

Got 'em.

[Ashilana]

Bad writing (as part of an otherwise well written work) can occur for many reasons, but here are a few:

• A rushed project..
• Executive/Producer level interference in a group project.
• Bad deligation of editing and revision by management in a group project.
• Introduction of a political or religious conviction into a story line when the author(s) are unaware that their beliefs are not obvious to their audience.

I used to think it was one of the first two, now I am starting suspect it was all four.