706 réponses à ce sujet

[cyrrant]

The ending ruined the artistic integrity of the rest of the game. I think we're just on about rectifying that little mistake. While they're changing things around, give us the 16 endings we were supposed to get and let's be done with this mess.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Blackadderthethird]

Would it be art if Tchaikovsky decided to end Swan Lake with a 5 minute song by hungry cats?

[Kondorr]

Changing the ending would actually mean regaining artistic integrity after this catastrophy of an ending!

[knightnblu]

"The MAIN THEME of Mass Effect 3 is VICTORY THROUGH SACRIFICE.."

Really? I always thought that we were fighting for something other than to sacrifice all the lives in the galaxy. Seems to me that Shepard said something about saving Earth, Palaven, and Thessia. Was that all a lie? What were we fighting for if it was?

According to your logic, we could have used the equivalent of an Infinity Horn and just ended the entire universe as Vanth Dreadstar and company once did. We would have sacrificed everyone and killed the Reapers once and for all. Would that have been a win in your eyes?

Does artistic license only apply to the ending or does it encompass the entirety of the piece? If it does extend throughout the entire work, then I submit that it was BioWare who abridged it first with the mess that they left us at the end of ME3 in violation of their own work. Does the artist have a right to violate his own artistic integrity? If so and he chooses to re-shape the ending, would you have a problem with that?

Last I checked, BioWare owns the game and I just buy the right to use it. Do I not have a right to express my own opinion regarding something that I purchased?

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Mass Effect did very much feel like the classic story of fighting against the inevitable. If Mass Effect were a film I think the Reapers winning would be a more powerful ending. But it isn't a film, the time we've spent with the characters is more comparable to a TV series and TV series rarely go for the everyone dies ending because its just too depressing.

Maybe a grim ending would make more of a point than a happy ending. But hasn't that point been made before anyway? Hell, the nihilistic "you can't fight the inevitable" point was made pretty well in the Epic of Gilgamesh which is what 4000 years old? So I don't really see the point of going there.

Does a grim ending or even a bitter sweet ending really fit in with the tone of the game anyway? I've always found Mass Effect to be a bit camp, more Star Trek than Battlestar Galactica. ME3 has been grim enough, there's been plenty of loss so I don't see how a happy end for Shep and the crew couldn't work.

[Sainta117]

No such thing as artistic integrity on a commercial product. And it's I-N-T-E-G-R-I-T-Y. If you can't spell a word, you almost certainly don't understand its meaning and probably shouldn't be using it.

[Bfler]

If there isn't the possibility for an happy end, why are we bombarded the whole game with phrases about victory and how we can manage the impossible?

Modifié par Bfler, 26 mars 2012 - 01:26 .

[R8edR]

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.....a happy ending WOULD break the intergrity of the game.

The current ending itself breaks whatever integrity the Mass Effect series has.

At the end of ME1, Vigil on Ilos specifically says that the reapers use the Citadel as a mass relay to get back from dark space.  Tthen once they get control of the Citadel, they use it to control the rest of  the Mass Relays, which no longer always travel or communication between the different systems.  

Javik some what confirms this as well, when he mentions that he didn't know anything about the crucible or Ilos because the systems were cut off from each other, no one knew what the other was doing.

Yet here we are at the end of Mass Effect 3, and not only does the Normandy use the Mass Relay, it's allowed to bring the entire galaxy with it.

This is only the beginning of the problems that ending has.

The fact that Bioware released  this ending, and then when they get called out it have Hudson and Muzyka try to defend it, shows first how little artistic integrity they have to begin with, and second how little respect they have for their customers and fans.

Having the ending changed will not break their artistic integrity, it will save whatever integrity they have left.  Which as far as I'm concern, is close to nothing at the moment.

Modifié par R8edR, 26 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[monima]

nomoredruggs wrote...

Well, for some people the main theme of the game seems to be OVERCOMING INCREDIBLE ODDS, so in this case, a "happy" ending would be consistent.

So, giving the players the choice would allow those who feel sacrifice is best to go that route, and those who feel that Shepard surviving do that.

Problem solved.

In DA:O, you could sacrifice yourself or someone else or make a deal with the devil, so to speak. It didn't ruin the story, on the contrary it allowed players to create their own stories based on the character they were playing.

Pretty much this, the game for me was always about hope against all odds.  
And its not like the ending can ever be "happy", it will be bittersweet at best. Shep might live so might his/her LI, but millions of people are already dead.  Giving Shep a better ending will never make it "happy."There should  atleast have been a choice! Then people can sacrifice their Shep if they wish, and be happy about that. And I can save mine.

Modifié par monimakitten, 26 mars 2012 - 01:45 .

[Morzak]

Uhm the ME Series always felt to me like it was about overcoming impossible odds, where the means to reach that goal were, unity, diversity and only a small part of sacrifice.
Shepard never really felt like a tragic figure and therefor it's not necessary for him to die. Honestly the ending is only fitting if ME3 is seen as the only game in the series and even then the execution is just horrible.

[Electric Pig]

Artistic integrity vs satisfying ending

Artistic Integrity can F**k off.

[sorentoft]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yeah, well throwing out one theme is better than throwing out ALL OF THEM.

You don't get to defend artistic integrity when you start photoshopping images from Google. Bioware did a lot of that.

The fact that the ending isn't happy isn't the reason people are complaining.

I like it when people say what I'm thinking for me. Saves me time. Thanks, guys.

^

[Noatz]

Good thing most people aren't looking for a happy ending then.

[JayneD]

CronoDragoon wrote...

By happy ending people mean Shepard reunited with his crew and all the galactic races not screwed in Sol system. Characters still die during the game, Thessia was lost, Earth is a pile of rubble, etc etc. The game is going to be bittersweet no matter what; you sacrificed a lot during the game. Doesn't mean everyone has to die.

[Fiannawolf]

This again??? THERES NO HAPPY ENDING PEROID. Even With closure DLC added in eventually....

There is no true happy golden ending for ME3, some people still die no matter what you do, besides I want to earn a BETTER ending, It wont be bunnies and sunshine perfect mainly cause unlike ME2 suicide mission I cant save them all this time. ME1 wasnt even a true Disney ending, still lost a valued crewmate.

Thane, Tali if you dont have enough rep and/or background from ME2, Grunt w/ no loyal stuff, Samera if you dont stop her. Miri if you dont warn her about Cereal man. Ground crew in final run without enough EMS. Jack if you dont go to Grissom in time. Legion reguardless of how the war plays out. Ash or Kai depending on ME1. Conrad if you dont do Jenna sidequest in ME1. Mordin also, esp if your shep renegades it and sabs the Genophage project. How UNHAPPY is that stuff.

Even at best you will get a bittersweet ending esp if Wrex and some others died with Hammer. Dont know yet cause NO CLOSURE ATM.

Esp if your going in with a fresh Shep with no ME1 or 2 stuff. In reality the newest players to the series IE Just ME3 have the worst endings in the history of gaming.

Modifié par Fiannawolf, 26 mars 2012 - 01:50 .

[EnforcerWRX7]

I am SO sick of the art argument.

As if art isn't subject to criticism or ridicule. It is more than any other medium.

[Stonesoundjam]

The lifts in ME 1 were artistic integrity. OP knows jack.

[Bioras]

CronoDragoon wrote...

By happy ending people mean Shepard reunited with his crew and all the galactic races not screwed in Sol system. Characters still die during the game, Thessia was lost, Earth is a pile of rubble, etc etc. The game is going to be bittersweet no matter what; you sacrificed a lot during the game. Doesn't mean everyone has to die.

This

[Bob3terd]

Galactic civilization is destroyed, fleet of thousands of hungry aliens stranded in sol with a war ravaged earth unlikly able to support the humans alone, crew stranded in the middle of no where with little or no help of rescue without the relays. Its not a bitter sweet ending its a tragedy.

And guess what i like bittersweet endings e.g. youtu.be/7zagpVInvjA, this wasnt one and even if it where i would much prefer an ending that has its basis within logic. And seen as shepard survives in one of the endings so that kinda throws the idea of sacrifice out the window no?

The ending is soo full of plot holes, fallacys, and just bad writing, i mean deus ex machina REALLY? No one with an ounce of artistic intergrity would release this ending.

Modifié par Bob3terd, 26 mars 2012 - 02:02 .

[blah64]

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.....a happy ending WOULD break the intergrity of the game.

The MAIN THEME of Mass Effect 3 is VICTORY THROUGH SACRIFICE.. This requires an ending that is bittersweet at best. Yes trilogies as a whole can overlying themes throughout, such as overcoming all odds (which WAS fuffilled in ME3, Shepard DID break the cycle), but single entries in a series or trilogy has their own themes.

Bioware should, and looks like they are, provide far more clarity and closure, however, not change the tone of the ending or provide a happy ending. To do so is selling out and breaking the relevance of the ending....

Hell, ME1 was not a fully happy ending, in fact had elements of victory through sacrifice, as either the a part of the alliance navy or the council is sacrificed, and ME2 is a hollow victory at best. This isn't Star Wars either, where Alderaan and Taris can be annihilated but be no longer relevant 5 minutes later....and end on a ceremony. And ME3 is so dark, a happy ending would not be appropriate.

In fact, ending the current universe and creating a new beginning IS A GOOD THING and a smart move. That needs to stay.

Besides the fact that the main theme of Mass Effect for the players was more nearly, choice and consequences.

That to the side, you don't get to

1.) Leave so many plot holes in the end that no one can explain the logic
2.) Use stock photos numerous times, and with key things (Tali)
3.) Make promises and fail to deliver on numerous counts
4.) Use IGN employee as a character
5.) Day 1 DLC
6.) ETC

and then claim the "art" defense. It doesn't fly.

[nomoredruggs]

Bfler wrote...

If there isn't the possibility for an happy end, why are we bombarded the whole game with phrases about victory and how we can manage the impossible?

This damnit! This really gets to me! So much dialogue ingame to imply that there's the possibility of a happy ending!

[ShinAnubisXIII]

EnforcerWRX7 wrote...

I am SO sick of the art argument.

As if art isn't subject to criticism or ridicule. It is more than any other medium.

This

Ironically it's the most common pro ending argument. We surely can debate whether games are art or not but 'artistic integrity' DOESN'T and should never oppose fair criticism espacially if it's constructive.

[edit] And yes, a game that is actively advertised as being 'choice and consequence' should have a happy ending as well as a sad ending. ME3 deliverd neither, just bitter depression.

Modifié par Shin-Anubis, 26 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[Robhuzz]

Current ending (yes ending since all of them are essentially the same) = Dramatic.
Ending where Shepard and crew survive and are not stuck in the sol system = bittersweet.

I do not see any possibility for a happy ending. Earth, Palaven and Thessia lie in ruins, the other home planets and major hubs have also been hit incredibly hard. Hundreds of colonies have been wiped out and billions of people have died. If Shepard survives this, reunites with his crew and the relays stay intact it would rank no higher than 'bittersweet', which coincidentally was exactly the ending Casey Hudson told us he wanted. Too bad his definitions don't match ours.

That said, I wish people would stop complaining about people who want an option for their Shepard and crew to survive. It's an OPTION! You don't have to pick it. If you want a heroic sacrifice ending then don't do side quests and no multiplayer so you don't have enough EMS for a 'Shep survives and reunites with crew' ending.

[PSUHammer]

Why do people care so much about stock photo use. If someone didn't waste the time to search for that photo, no one would care. Much ado about nothing. Most character faces are based off people or random photos.

[nomoredruggs]

monimakitten wrote...

(...)
And its not like the ending can ever be "happy", it will be bittersweet at best. Shep might live so might his/her LI, but millions of people are already dead.  Giving Shep a better ending will never make it "happy."There should  atleast have been a choice! Then people can sacrifice their Shep if they wish, and be happy about that. And I can save mine.

Exactly. People use the term "happy ending" here just for the sake of brevity. Shepard surviving and reuniting with loved ones is a bittersweet ending anyway, considering home planets lie in ruins, a lot of friends have already died and so on.