706 réponses à ce sujet

[Melicamp]

 Saw a thread talking about artistic integrity, thought this might be interesting to some of you:

http://www.3pipe.net...entury-new.html

What I take from this article is that BioWare's customers are clearly their patrons - many of us bought ME1 & 2 not only as standalone games, but in part as investments in the next part in the franchise. Sequels were a MAJOR selling point BioWare used for ME1 & 2, and throughout the runup to 2 & 3 we were promised that our input would be considered. They delivered on this in ME2, and failed in 3.

As patrons we have a right to see what was promised delivered. In other artistic fields, an artist's integrity would be determined by how well they met their patron's wishes in the final product. I find it surprising that anyone is arguing that ignoring their backers who are angry for a myriad broken promises represents "artistic integrity". For me it shows that, rather than the gamers who are "spoiled and selfish", it is in fact the developers, who for some reason think that the rules that have applied to other artists throughout history no longer apply to them.

Modifié par Melicamp, 26 mars 2012 - 02:09 .

[jvara]

They have ALREADY sold out (firs day DLC, ending planned to MORE DLC, action game mechanics over roleplaying, etc ...) that in first place. That and this:

KevShep ...
If artistic value is all they are worried about then they are in the wrong industry.

I have set up a small game developer with a mate and still think like this, of course they should have some intelectual integrity, but it should not be they're main concern, mostly when it comes to a RPG, where there should always be at least a few different endings, if it was a Ppoint and Click adventure or something like thtat, with just one way to get one ending, then OK, I wouldn't ask them to change that ending because it wouldn't be gamebreaking or against what was promised, but in this case I believe that customer rights are above creative property or freedom.

[ShinAnubisXIII]

Robhuzz wrote...

I do not see any possibility for a happy ending. Earth, Palaven and Thessia lie in ruins, the other home planets and major hubs have also been hit incredibly hard. Hundreds of colonies have been wiped out and billions of people have died. If Shepard survives this, reunites with his crew and the relays stay intact it would rank no higher than 'bittersweet', which coincidentally was exactly the ending Casey Hudson told us he wanted. Too bad his definitions don't match ours.

Who said that bittersweet =/= happy? I mean, we all know what's at stake. We all know there WILL be sacrifices and plenty. It's war, even more, all out galactic war. In my option of a happy ending, we should be able to see what we lost but also managed to preserve. And ofc the Relays should stay intact so the victory fleet can return home and help rebuild their worlds. Earth, Palaven, Thessia, Dekuuna and many other planets may lie in ruins for now but they could rebuild, especially if galactic society and economy stays intact. What would be the problem to simply destory the reapers? Haven't we sacrificed enough lives already? Do we have to destory galactic society in the process? I don't think so. A lot of ppl always keep saying happy ending = rainbows and bunnies but that's just wrong. Rainbows and bunnies aren't possible here. But that doesn't mean happy endings are.

[edit] Oh I forgot. If Shepard survives, he should be able to reunite with his crew. Doesn't even have to say what happens with them afterwards. That's for the player to imagine.

Modifié par Shin-Anubis, 26 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[blue_cosmos]

OP:

No, I do not believe the main theme of the Mass Effect series is about sacrifice; I'd say it's about surmounting impossible odds through willpower, courage and lots of lateral thinking to bring the best result to the galaxy. The concurrent embodiment and manifestation of what each player assumes is the main theme of the trilogy is through the Shepard character and how you choose to play him/her. You already have a very different interpretation of the theme from me and that says to me that adding more endings to Mass Effect is not going to break the artistic integrity of the game; there is not going to be a canon interpretation of what happens in the game events and if that's true, why not just turn the differences (between the end events of the game) up to 11 depending on how you play?

[kkndgr]

I am in favour of different endings not a single one.one happy .one bad and some in between with Shepard sacrificing to save the galaxy and with sqadmates even dying .One ending either happy or bad or a bittersweet one still means the actions or your decisions did not influence the final outcome

[Giantdeathrobot]

Where was this ''artistic integrity'' defense when they announced they would change Deception due to fan complaints?

Also, when the last lines of your trilogy is a pop-up urging to buy more DLC, your claim is extremely shaky at best.

[Darkwulfjj]

Great Expectations by Charles Dickens - enough said about ending and artistic integrity.


Hold the Line

Modifié par Darkwulfjj, 26 mars 2012 - 02:24 .

[Klijpope]

Would Star Trek 2 have been as good and as fondly remembered if the most-obviously-not-a-tragic-hero Spock had survived?

[Klijpope]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...
Also, when the last lines of your trilogy is a pop-up urging to buy more DLC, your claim is extremely shaky at best.

It doesn't invite you to buy DLC at the end. It merely states that it is taking you back to before the endgame so that you can play DLC with that character. The word buy, purchase, or pay are not there at all.

[heathxxx]

"Adding a happy ending IS breaking artistic intergrity."

So is a software developer eating humble pie.

*nom nom*

*belch*

[Pelle6666]

Screwing up like this and not offering us the option of a somewhat "happy" ending is a complete violation of the integrity of the game!
A story of this magnitude is never supposed to leave the player feeling empty and sad, it is supposed to end with a bang and make us feel as if we've accomplished something!

[SilencedScream]

Artistic integrity is thrown out the window by two things:
1.) DLC - It's altering the final product as a means to make more money. If it was intended to be part of the "art," it should've been released with the art. Not as an after-thought.

2.) Using outside art and calling it your own. We've all seen the stock photo that went to Tali's face. We've all seen the Google wallpaper that was used for the grandfather/grandson epilogue. Using OTHER PEOPLE'S ART means you have no claim to artistic integrity - you didn't make the damn thing. You took what other people had and edited it. It's why you had to mention them in the credits - it's not your art.

[Talogrungi]

How can one claim artistic integrity when 90% of the final mission is cut due to deadlines?

Clearly, the "artists" intended to give us a rich and deep ending but were veto'd by the moneymen.

There's no integrity to be defended there.

[Lucas-Shepard]

I want an ending where Shep takes a dump on his/her bathroom. That would not break "artistic integrity", in fact it would be beautiful in that it explains the ending in a few frames.

Modifié par Lucas-Shepard, 26 mars 2012 - 02:27 .

[zarnk567]

 Oh look this thread again...... <_<

[Avissel]

 When the final message of the final game in a series is "Buy more dlc!"

You don't get to argue about artistic integrity. You have declared it a product.

[malra]

actually, victory throug sacrifice may be one possible theme, not necessarily the overriding theme. not to mention sacrifice can mean anything. alot of sacrifice was made to get to the end, some people sacrificed mordin, others sacrificed the geth, some people sacrificed their paragon status, others their renegade status. sacrfice isn't necessarily throwing oneself physically on the alter. so your argument is specious. considering the parent/child relationship between anderson/shepard it would have been better even, actually been bittersweet, if anderson had stepped in and taken shepards place. bittersweet is not achieved through a "death everywhere" mentatlity. the very end of winnie the pooh is bittersweet because christopher robbin grows up and leaves his childhood friends behind. no death there - but mission is still accomplished.

[heathxxx]

I suppose you could consider one aspect being artistic...

"An artistic and thought provoking look at primary colours and their impact upon the choices of the human psyche"

Discuss...

Modifié par heathxxx, 26 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[Zemore]

Games are not art .... Games are mass produced entertainment media they are an interactive form of television
and guess what People heavily effect how TV is scheduled they dont air crap people dont watch and they finish a series and then add later episodes because people werent happy with how it ended and want more this is the exact same thing.

The Mona lisa is art, The weeping woman IS art.... this is a game and we are the players this is mass effect WE decide how our story in the game that was the selling point the writer would be full of BS if they think we dont have the right to decide how it ends.

[DJBare]

"Choice"

[showes13]

I do not think there should be only one happy ending. I think there should be several, which is only fitting because you could play as paragon or renegade and make all sorts of diff choices throughout the games.
Even if Shep can stay alive and you can save your crew and stop the reapers, I do not think that would be too happy. I would see what as triumph, but still bittersweet. Because there has been so much sacrifice and death, and you lost a lot of close people along the way. There is a lot of destruction and a lot will have to be rebuilt. I do not see that as too happy.
I don't think anyone is asking for a fairytale ending where all the dead come back to life and the reapers help rebuild everything right before killing themselves.
I think Shep dying and reapers winning, what I take away from the ending currently, is not bittersweet, it is downright depressing and makes you feel like all you've done is in vain.

[Tommytsunami]

Leaving the plot holes as they are is more in lines of breaking artistic integrity than changing the ending due to the glaring amount of inconsistencies and cliche'd mechanics present within the ending. Fans don't want a happy ending (some might, but I'm sure they'd be happy with just closure) what we want is the closure and branching endings that were promised.

[Zemore]

heathxxx wrote...

I suppose you could consider one aspect being artistic...

"An artistic and thought provoking look at primary colours and their impact upon the choices of the human psyche"

Discuss...

Red .... false hope and anger, Blue Just anger and then  Green space magic ... and anger

[xentar]

Actually, no, given that certain play styles allow for a development of events that gives a lot of hope, a happy ending would feel totally appropriate.

Edit: besides, there is no integrity in 3 separate and rather different games that continue each other against all odds.

Modifié par xentar, 26 mars 2012 - 02:33 .

[Cody211282]

Avissel wrote...

 When the final message of the final game in a series is "Buy more dlc!"

You don't get to argue about artistic integrity. You have declared it a product.

And even worse then that, they are effectivly begging for money after you have already bought the game from them.

There should be a mod to turn that damn thing off.