706 réponses à ce sujet

[Petrikles]

OP, please read this entry, which totally proves to disagree with your findings:

http://social.biowar.../index/10289506

[Atomic Space Vixen]

There is no "artistic integrity" in a game that sacrifices any real sense of Miranda being in hiding while meeting you on the Citadel in favour of providing eye candy to the game's general target audience.

[blooregard]

squee365 wrote...

Don't know if this was posted already.

Actions speak louder than words, Bioware has no artistic integrity.

Lol.


Lets not forget their winter space cutscene and that Wintersun song Starchild...Its almost difficult to believe that they dun goofed this bad. Its like they're going to release something on April first that will give Tali a real face, change the setting for the stargazer scene, and give us an ending worth playing the game again.

[showes13]

Are video games art or are they a product? I think they are a combination of both. The expression of creativity that goes into video games is the artistic part, and the fact that companies sell video games to make profit is the product part.

What is artistic integrity? Artistic integrity is when the artist does not compromise his work for profit. To me that mean you do not tailor your art to your audience, because you are not concerned with people liking it or buying it in any way.

I think when we are talking about corporations, especially publicly traded ones, the whole artistic integrity ship has long sailed. A corporation that makes and sells a product has profit as their goal. To make a profit they must find a way to get people to like and buy their product.

Modifié par showes13, 26 mars 2012 - 03:30 .

[Quietness]

Sorry but Artistic Integrity also is big on not taking a massive departure from the story's narrative in the 11th hour. I am going to completely ignore all the other photoshop bs for sake of argument. They betrayed their integrity when they ripped Shepard's spine out, ignored the promises they made (Games are Consumable Art, therefore promises are hugely important), and flat out pissed all over the story they have set up so far.

[TheScott1987]

Me: Hi, could you please paint me a elephant? Your giraffe and fat cat drawings ruled!

Them: Ok, and we promise we will paint it just how you like it! Oh, and make a few variations so you can pick the painting you like best, just like before!

Me: Ok, here's my money! Just send them when they're done and I'll pick out the best on!

-Deadline-

Me: Uhm, there's only one painting . . . And the elephant looks like a human . . . This isn't what I paid for, what you promised to give me.

Them: ARTISTIC INTEGRITY ALERT!!!!!!

[Iwillbeback]

What victory?
I caused supernova's in every system.

[FrozenDreamfall]

TheHoneyRuns wrote...

FrozenDreamfall wrote...

TheHoneyRuns wrote...

Legionaire-Shen wrote...

So students can refuse to make changes to their essay because they need to maintain academic integrity
and government can refuse to make changes to their policy when economy goes bad because they need to maintain bureaucratic integrity
and football team can refuse to make changes when they keep losing because they need to maintain tactic integrity

Okay, I don't agree with tx, but this argument is a bit flawed, yes?

A student answers to the demands of prof's will for a better grade, a government must answer to the whims of the peeps because that is democracy and football team answers to the owners because above entertainment, companies need to put the people in the seats.

I see what you're doing here, but a video game does not follow the same ruleset. Just because we support their games with our money we are not their editors nor their bosses nor their masters. We are the players. Asking for a better ending, a more cohesive ending, and recieving one would be a gift.

Not an expectation or demand based on guidelines.

Well I do not agree when 70-80 dollars were spent on that game and many didn't like it.If we paid that much for it we can demand it,if we were unhappy and unsatisfied we have the right to voice our opinions.When we were promised something and got something else we have the right to be angry.And if the company respects us already many gamers said they'll never buy another Bioware game again,so this reflects very bad on them as a company.My cousin is in PR and she knows this stuff too well.No,we are not their masters,no,we do not pay them.But without us to buy their products their masters wouldn't have where to pay them from.So in the end it still turns against them.

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And due to increased emphasis on combat and the shrugging off of RPG elements, there's several million of "us" who don't even know the Bioware forums exist. They couldn't even tell you who Bioware is if you asked them while they played the game. They're casual gamers and this is prime casual gaming, complete with an option to turn off any of that annoying RPG nonsense and just shoot things.

And they loved the game.

Bioware is in no danger. The only reasons they're responding to us is because they're known to be a respectable company and because they also have cousins who work in PR.

Every company can be in danger to anything,don't make them sound immortal,and if you're looking to debate I'm up for it,if you wanna be a smart,sarcastic ass you have the wrong person.

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[january42]

RPG's arn't about having some damn message. It's the journey not the destination.  However, you need to HAVE a destination to have a journey.

In pretty much all RPG's you know more or less how it's gonna end half way through.  ME3 ends with the Reapers no longer being a threat. This is ovious. If it also ends with Shepard dead then you need to build that up and explain it for a while...rather than in the last 5 minutes.

[Naqey]

it didnd break da:o ARTISTIC INTEGRITY (...), now did it?

[Nicky 192]

I didn't buy mass effect 3 so that i could stick it on a table and admire it.I bought it because it was marketed as an interactive story in which you shape your own destiny and your choices matter. Artistic integrity fly's out of the airlock when you introduce day one dlc, charge for it and change the story at the end.

Modifié par Nicky 192, 26 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[Gill Kaiser]

What Shepard did wasn't sacrifice, it was genocide.

[Christianswe]

Yeah well.. I´ll just say Dragon Age Origins. People who have beaten it know what i mean.
Endings, not ending. Please Bioware??

[Alamar2078]

@OP: Honestly I don't believe artistic integrity really is the primary issue. IIRC BW promised many divergent endings. IMHO BW deliberately set expectations up so reasonable people would expect at least a somewhat happy ending [Maybe shep & a few squadmates live ... maybe even the Relays are largely intact].

There's also ways to protect integrity AND give better endings. BW could just say the endings on disk are official. They could then release a DLC with alternate but unofficial endings.

BW wins by protecting their artistic vision. BW wins by listening to fans. Fans win by getting endings that were promised / endings they want.

The only folks that probably lose are those that want a LOT of work done on endings but also want it for free. I don't see how they'll get that as the "bean counters" will likely oppose that as long as they think there will be a negative short term return on investment.

[Piplodocus]

txgoldrush wrote...
The MAIN THEME of Mass Effect 3 is VICTORY THROUGH SACRIFICE.

I am not certain this is true, OP. Sacrifice is definitely a theme (Mordin, Legion, etc) but I would say a far stronger theme is "Victory through teamwork, in particular with unexpected parties"

• The Krogans come to the rescue of the homeworld of the species that almost wiped them out, the Turians.
• The Krogans express surprise that a Salarian, the race that engineered the Genophage, has cured it.
• You get emails about how the teams working on the Crucible are at first wary of the Rachni, but soon develop efficient working relationships with them.
• Returning character after returning character pledge to be there when you make your stand: Samara, Kirrahe, etc.
• The Quarians refuse to believe that there is any ultimate outcome other than destroying the Geth, but are eventually surprised to find themselves working and living with them.
• On Tuchanka even the Thresher Maw is manipulated into fighting alongside the good guys (it is unknowing teamwork from one party's perspective I'll admit, but is still help from what is traditionally an enemy).
• Jack, the ultimate loner, expresses surprise that she has been able to work with anyone at all, having become a mentor to young people.
• Jacob speaks about "his people" and his feeling of a duty to protect them.
• You recruit the Omega mercenary groups, who are traditionally warring factions, by uniting them as one force under Aria.

They are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Sacrifice is a theme, but teamwork from different but equal groups is, I believe, the true theme of ME3, which is why so many people are disappointed that they don't get to see the ultimate expression of this philosophy at the end, space dogfight apart. Is the ditching of this teamwork pay-off an actual breaking of artistic integrity? Perhaps that's too strong but I can see why people are arguing it.

[shatun]

I love how everyone is defending artistic inegrity of ME3. I own a small jewelry company, I hope there won't be any objections, that jewelry is much more art, than videogames. Say, one of my employers makes me a ring, or pendant (at 3 AM lol). I've made enormous efforts to promote this rings, sending emails to my constant clients, heavy advertising etc. And after that 97% of them come to my office saying that this is a) not what i promised them there are a lot of small holes in the ring c) the ornament is okay, but the emerald is horrible, with cracks and inclusions, etc. etc, and they want me to fix that (by the law jewelry companies in Russia can refuse to return money to customers without any explanation), and even are ready to pay for that. And I say "excuse me, but this is ruining my artistic integrity, and I won't do that". I'll lose at least half of my clients and will be forced to build a new customer base, which is basically the hardest part of any business. And all I have will be a bunch of jewelry critics, praising the ring and a couple of jewelry hipsters, who love everything others don't.

Also, there's still someone thinking, that we need a happy ending. I don't associate myself with commander Shepard. I don't care if he's dead or alive. I just want the ending to get rid of gigantic plotholes, unanswered questions and horrible Deus Ex squared. Which is not art.

[spirosz]

Art?

FOR TUCHANKA!

[Pottumuusi]

No.

[lyssalu]

no bad writing is what does that bro

[vigna]

All I want is a closure ending, and one that explains things more to me.

[zarnk567]

No.... it's not..... Hideo Kojima changed the ending of MGS4 after his writing staff read it and said it was too "depressing" for an already depressing story. The original ending had Solid Snake and Otacon executed for war crimes that happened during MGS2. So he re-wrote it to the current ending MGS4 has now. (granted the new ending isn't a "happy ending" but it's less depressing than what was originally written)

Modifié par zarnk567, 26 mars 2012 - 07:24 .

[lillitheris]

1. Games are art. Trying to argue what is and isn't art is exactly what they want you to do to distract you from the actual issue.

2. Mass Effect 3 was shipped before it was finished, therefore “artistic integrity” doesn't apply.

3. This debate is pointless.

[spirosz]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is ****g glorious!

Modifié par spiros9110, 26 mars 2012 - 07:31 .