706 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

For the last time, if BioWare chooses to change the ending and it fits their preferred image, then it isn't breaking artistic integrity.

There is already plenty of sacrifice. Mordin, Thane, Wrex, Miranda, the Citadel inhabitants, your forces above Earth and everyone on the planet, etc. Yes, I think the ending itself should make note of that theme with the proper atmosphere, but that doesn't mean there can't be any happiness.

And thats where bittersweet comes in....there is happiness, but also sadness. And really, the current flawed version has EDI and Joker together in the synthesis ending.

There is a difference between a Bittersweet and a Downer ending.

[froggeh2]

I disagree OP, the theme of Mass Effect 3 is fatalism.

Modifié par froggeh2, 27 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[Verfallen]

Any science fiction story - epic or otherwise - written after 1970 that introduces a 'Starchild' as a central figure, particularly as an ending plot device, has sacrificed any claim to artistic integrity.

[txgoldrush]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Txgoldrush, can we at least agree that different people wanted different things from the game, and while you got what you wanted, tens of thousands did not? Can we at least agree on that?

I didn't get what I want, the ending was poorly executed.

[-Skorpious-]

Bioware can sacrifice Shepard and the Normandy crew is they need even more sacrifice in ME3. All I need to be a happy camper are preserved relays.

Oh, and no more star-child. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 27 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[NReed106]

txgoldrush wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.....a happy ending WOULD break the intergrity of the game.

The MAIN THEME of Mass Effect 3 is VICTORY THROUGH SACRIFICE.. This requires an ending that is bittersweet at best. Yes trilogies as a whole can overlying themes throughout, such as overcoming all odds (which WAS fuffilled in ME3, Shepard DID break the cycle), but single entries in a series or trilogy has their own themes.

Bioware should, and looks like they are, provide far more clarity and closure, however, not change the tone of the ending or provide a happy ending. To do so is selling out and breaking the relevance of the ending....

Hell, ME1 was not a fully happy ending, in fact had elements of victory through sacrifice, as either the a part of the alliance navy or the council is sacrificed, and ME2 is a hollow victory at best. This isn't Star Wars either, where Alderaan and Taris can be annihilated but be no longer relevant 5 minutes later....and end on a ceremony. And ME3 is so dark, a happy ending would not be appropriate.

In fact, ending the current universe and creating a new beginning IS A GOOD THING and a smart move. That needs to stay.

Nope, this is Mass Effect, where an entire galaxy of planets can be no longer relevant 5 minutes later.

You people with the GRIM DARK EDGY REALSTIC stuff just need to stop.

The theme of the games was always to do the impossible, the goal of ME2 was to SURVIVE the suicide mission, not to barely trudge through with a half-dead crew.

Oh wait Shepard DID THE IMPOSSIBLE....HE STOPPED THE REAPER CYCLE!!!!!!!!!

Fits the theme, don't ya think.....

Don't forget he killed more people the reapers ever could by destroying the relays too *two big thumbs up*

He did do the impossible, he made a reaper victory more desirable than a Shep victory

[Pericles Redstorm]

 Art went into the making of this game, but the game itself is a Mass Produced Product ; same as a car. Artistic integraty no longer holds water.

[Actinguy1]

I agree with the OP. We need a BETTER ending, not a HAPPIER one. The idea of Shepard relaxing on the beach with dozens of blue babies is silly. What ME3 lacked was showing me the real sacrifice (who lived? who died?), and what that sacrifice ACCOMPLISHED.

As a side note, I was also really hoping for the ME2 ending mechanism of telling entire races...or at least my squadmates...to go here and do that, knowing that choosing wrong could mean death.

[Aweus]

Actinguy1 wrote...

I agree with the OP. We need a BETTER ending, not a HAPPIER one. The idea of Shepard relaxing on the beach with dozens of blue babies is silly. What ME3 lacked was showing me the real sacrifice (who lived? who died?), and what that sacrifice ACCOMPLISHED.

As a side note, I was also really hoping for the ME2 ending mechanism of telling entire races...or at least my squadmates...to go here and do that, knowing that choosing wrong could mean death.

We keep talking about several different options for ending yet still some people ignore this and keeps preaching like if there is only one ending possible and nothing else. Whatever, this thread keeps repeating itself since yesterday.

[RamilVenoard]

Couldn't agree more OP. The way I see it is that SO many of his friends and comrades in arms have sacrificed themselves to allow Shepard to keep going, to allow him to finish this fight and save the galaxy. His death is like a way of repaying the fallen, saying "you sacrificed so that I might also" and "we're all in this together" which are two of the biggest if not THE biggest two themes that Mass Effect calls to mind. A happy ending would in my opinion be just as bad as the current one since it also renders all the sacrifices made throughout the game somewhat insignificant.

EDIT: @previous poster, Frankly, all the threads I've seen about endings, including Indoc theory are just mediocre substitutions. I used to love IDT, but realized recently it's just a reach attempting to fill an enourmous holes in the story line.

Modifié par RamilVenoard, 27 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[Aweus]

RamilVenoard wrote...

Couldn't agree more OP. The way I see it is that SO many of his friends and comrades in arms have sacrificed themselves to allow Shepard to keep going, to allow him to finish this fight and save the galaxy. His death is like a way of repaying the fallen, saying "you sacrificed so that I might also" and "we're all in this together" which are two of the biggest if not THE biggest two themes that Mass Effect calls to mind. A happy ending would in my opinion be just as bad as the current one since it also renders all the sacrifices made throughout the game somewhat insignificant.

What? So all sacrifices only makes sense if they lead to sad ending?
This almost sounds on same level like current explanation why Reapers harvest the galaxy ("kill organics to protect organics").

[Aurora313]

All I taste with this ending is bitterness. Sure there's a tiny glimmer of hope, but not enough to make it 'sweet'. Synthesis is the closest thing we've got to 'bittersweet' and even that's tainted by this popular Indoctrination theory if that pans out.

[aliengmr1]

Aweus wrote...

Actinguy1 wrote...

I agree with the OP. We need a BETTER ending, not a HAPPIER one. The idea of Shepard relaxing on the beach with dozens of blue babies is silly. What ME3 lacked was showing me the real sacrifice (who lived? who died?), and what that sacrifice ACCOMPLISHED.

As a side note, I was also really hoping for the ME2 ending mechanism of telling entire races...or at least my squadmates...to go here and do that, knowing that choosing wrong could mean death.

We keep talking about several different options for ending yet still some people ignore this and keeps preaching like if there is only one ending possible and nothing else. Whatever, this thread keeps repeating itself since yesterday.

This ^

Why is this so hard to grasp?

[Ticonderoga117]

Actinguy1 wrote...

I agree with the OP. We need a BETTER ending, not a HAPPIER one. The idea of Shepard relaxing on the beach with dozens of blue babies is silly. What ME3 lacked was showing me the real sacrifice (who lived? who died?), and what that sacrifice ACCOMPLISHED.

As a side note, I was also really hoping for the ME2 ending mechanism of telling entire races...or at least my squadmates...to go here and do that, knowing that choosing wrong could mean death.

Why not both if you did really awesome? (And without touching MP too, make me work for my ending in the SP, but making people play an uninspired Horde mode just to get it is not cool.) There's already enough suffering in the game, give the player a sign that this ending did not just kill trillions and leave everyone you know and cared about stranded on some wierd jungle planet. Honestly, if there was that kind of planet close to Earth, you would think it would be colonised no?

[xeNNN]

KevShep wrote...

Artistic integrity is not the meat of the gaming industry its only a part of it.
The Integrity that matters is the one of entertanment. Bioware needs to stop useing this a an excuse for a bad ending.

If artistic value is all they are worried about then they are in the wrong industry.

this^ 

games are supposed to be FUN! and/or ENTERTAINING not "art" ,  yes "artistic" but it doesnt get covered the way other "art" would simply because of the entertainment factor.

when you destroy a series that has enterained the masses then rip it apart with a horrible ending that will be talked about for god knows how long.  that "integrity" not "artistic" is at risk and more than likely broken.

also simply adding a happy ending wouldnt be breaking the intergrity it would be adding to it, as it would increase the experience and replay value of this form of entertainment.

Modifié par xeNNN, 27 mars 2012 - 03:47 .

[RamilVenoard]

Is it best then, that you get to see a happy ending of Shepard with his little blue babies with the knowledge that SO many people died to get him there? It seems to me (personal opinion of course) that Shepard should not survive the last mission, since if he does it takes away from the Jesus character aspect that he has been given.

[EmEr77]

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.....a happy ending WOULD break the intergrity of the game.

The MAIN THEME of Mass Effect 3 is VICTORY THROUGH SACRIFICE.. This requires an ending that is bittersweet at best. Yes trilogies as a whole can overlying themes throughout, such as overcoming all odds (which WAS fuffilled in ME3, Shepard DID break the cycle), but single entries in a series or trilogy has their own themes.

Bioware should, and looks like they are, provide far more clarity and closure, however, not change the tone of the ending or provide a happy ending. To do so is selling out and breaking the relevance of the ending....

Hell, ME1 was not a fully happy ending, in fact had elements of victory through sacrifice, as either the a part of the alliance navy or the council is sacrificed, and ME2 is a hollow victory at best. This isn't Star Wars either, where Alderaan and Taris can be annihilated but be no longer relevant 5 minutes later....and end on a ceremony. And ME3 is so dark, a happy ending would not be appropriate.

In fact, ending the current universe and creating a new beginning IS A GOOD THING and a smart move. That needs to stay.

Here is why "it makes more sense in a sweeping epic to have a bittersweet ending" actually does not make more sense. It can be a possible ending, but doesn't have to be THE ending:

• In the Homeric tale of The Odyssey, Odysseus finally returns home after losing all of his crew, his freedom, and waiting for twenty years (bittersweet). When he returns home no matter how much it pains him, he cannot reunite still with his wife. He must kill the suitors that squat in his palace and reclaim his home. After all of this is accomplished he can finally be with his wife and son once again, fully as he is. The Odyssey is regarded as a story that has stood the test of time, and is highly praised by literary historians. No one seemed to have an issue that it had a happy ending--or thought that it was entirely unebelievable, and let me tell you... the scope of this story is nowhere near the scope of The Odyssey
• More Recent: Harry Potter. This series spanned SEVEN books, not three, and with as dark, and tragic, and hopeless as it seemed, (spoiler alert) Harry still lived at the end, and there didn't seem too big of an uproar concerning that. I would say, if I were to compare Mass Effect and Harry Potter to one another, to see which had more of a bleak story line, I could decently argue that they were pretty much even from Order of the Phoenix on.
• This is a game that has been advertised as a collaboration between the gamers and the developers. It is a game that has established itself as being one in which WE ultimately make the decisions for our character, and the story has been crafted in such a way that the choices are ours, and we pick our own destiny. 

So to say what would, or wouldn't be more appropriate is not the right course of action. Especially since your decisions, and your Shepard is probably different from my Shepard. Why should our Shepards have the same ending, if we played differently? They shouldn't--not by BioWare's standards for setting up this game in the first place. Unfortunately, through... whatever happened in the offices, they did have the same ending. Which makes no sense. 

Modifié par EmEr77, 27 mars 2012 - 03:51 .

[Chuloos]

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.....a happy ending WOULD break the intergrity of the game.

The MAIN THEME of Mass Effect 3 is VICTORY THROUGH SACRIFICE.. This requires an ending that is bittersweet at best. Yes trilogies as a whole can overlying themes throughout, such as overcoming all odds (which WAS fuffilled in ME3, Shepard DID break the cycle), but single entries in a series or trilogy has their own themes.

Bioware should, and looks like they are, provide far more clarity and closure, however, not change the tone of the ending or provide a happy ending. To do so is selling out and breaking the relevance of the ending....

Hell, ME1 was not a fully happy ending, in fact had elements of victory through sacrifice, as either the a part of the alliance navy or the council is sacrificed, and ME2 is a hollow victory at best. This isn't Star Wars either, where Alderaan and Taris can be annihilated but be no longer relevant 5 minutes later....and end on a ceremony. And ME3 is so dark, a happy ending would not be appropriate.

In fact, ending the current universe and creating a new beginning IS A GOOD THING and a smart move. That needs to stay.

You have no idea what you are talking about.. how old are you anyway... have your read any Tolkeing, Asimov, Heilen, Eddings, etc.. have you been the the movies in the last 20 years.. or since they began..  adding a happy ending.. would NOT break 'artistic integrity'.   Killing off most of the Universe is NOT a good thing.. what have you been smoking..  Did you even understand the game you played?

[ArkkAngel007]

txgoldrush wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

For the last time, if BioWare chooses to change the ending and it fits their preferred image, then it isn't breaking artistic integrity.

There is already plenty of sacrifice. Mordin, Thane, Wrex, Miranda, the Citadel inhabitants, your forces above Earth and everyone on the planet, etc. Yes, I think the ending itself should make note of that theme with the proper atmosphere, but that doesn't mean there can't be any happiness.

And thats where bittersweet comes in....there is happiness, but also sadness. And really, the current flawed version has EDI and Joker together in the synthesis ending.

There is a difference between a Bittersweet and a Downer ending.

Right and that's about the best example you can get out the game.  Technically, depending on which relationship you invested in, that could be a good example as well, considering your last conversation with them is pretty much a goodbye.

But yeah, I get why people want some more happiness involved.  However, I also believe there needs to be a balance.  I get worried when I read threads about how BioWare should have allowed all the characters would live.  It just would make it all seem...unearned, unreal...take your pick.  

[Aweus]

RamilVenoard wrote...

Is it best then, that you get to see a happy ending of Shepard with his little blue babies with the knowledge that SO many people died to get him there? It seems to me (personal opinion of course) that Shepard should not survive the last mission, since if he does it takes away from the Jesus character aspect that he has been given.

Ending of ME3 will never be trully happy considering all the sacrifices on the way. Shepard living or not will not change that. I do not see conflict between Shepard living and sacrifices made in the past. Besides, if we read and interpret what we have in current endings, only in synthesis ending Shepard trully dies. In control he becomes some new mysterious entity and in destroy there is the rubble scene. Also as for Jesus... *spoiler alert* he survived 

[Aedan276]

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.....a happy ending WOULD break the intergrity of the game.

The MAIN THEME of Mass Effect 3 is VICTORY THROUGH SACRIFICE.. This requires an ending that is bittersweet at best. Yes trilogies as a whole can overlying themes throughout, such as overcoming all odds (which WAS fuffilled in ME3, Shepard DID break the cycle), but single entries in a series or trilogy has their own themes.

Bioware should, and looks like they are, provide far more clarity and closure, however, not change the tone of the ending or provide a happy ending. To do so is selling out and breaking the relevance of the ending....

Hell, ME1 was not a fully happy ending, in fact had elements of victory through sacrifice, as either the a part of the alliance navy or the council is sacrificed, and ME2 is a hollow victory at best. This isn't Star Wars either, where Alderaan and Taris can be annihilated but be no longer relevant 5 minutes later....and end on a ceremony. And ME3 is so dark, a happy ending would not be appropriate.

In fact, ending the current universe and creating a new beginning IS A GOOD THING and a smart move. That needs to stay.

Not having a happy ending option (specifically a happy ending for Shepard and his companions) ruins Bioware games for me and a lot of other people, who buy all of the DLC and do all of the content specifically to obtain happy optimal outcomes. If they stick to their guns on this one, I'll be following their "artistic vision" from the bargaining bin. 

[RamilVenoard]

EmEr77, I certainly see your point of view, I really do. Especially the part about different Shepards, different endings. But chances are, if you play ALL your cards right during the three games, THAT is when Shepard will survive, and I really don't want mine to. When I play an RPG and make sure EVERY aspect is perfect and the best outcome is achieved It would be difficult to put into the game the player's preference of ending into the game considering such.

It's difficult to explain what I'm trying to say so forgive my ambiguity.

[DJBare]

Aurora313 wrote...

All I taste with this ending is bitterness. Sure there's a tiny glimmer of hope, but not enough to make it 'sweet'. Synthesis is the closest thing we've got to 'bittersweet' and even that's tainted by this popular Indoctrination theory if that pans out.

Synergy is tainted by the very fact you play god and decide the fate of all other races, control is also playing god, destroy is the only option remaining, but now you're deciding the fate of ALL synthetics.

[Tiercel24]

Actinguy1 wrote...

I agree with the OP. We need a BETTER ending, not a HAPPIER one. The idea of Shepard relaxing on the beach with dozens of blue babies is silly. What ME3 lacked was showing me the real sacrifice (who lived? who died?), and what that sacrifice ACCOMPLISHED.

Then NEVER watch it, NEVER choose it. You can even headcanon that it doesn't exist! How is Shep living any different than, for instance the warden living in DAO? You have to sacrifice in both and a hell of a lot more in ME . Your telling me just having the option of Shep living and reuniting with his/her LI is unacceptable? The fact that Shepard HAS to do anything is what is unacceptable. "You decide how it ends", A trilogy all about choice remember?

If my Shep lives than he would live for who and all he lost. This does not demean anything.

[aliengmr1]

ME should never have had one ending.

Makes more sense to please the most amount of people. But that asking way too much.