326 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex Savchovsky]

Original182 wrote...
Niall saw with his own eyes what real blood magic looks like, and said that it was akin to the Maker's wrath. This is a mage who knows magic, but still thinks blood magic is much worse. And when asked whether he wanted that power, he said no.
So no, he did not believe blood magic is evil simply because the Chantry told him so, but he saw with his own eyes what it is like. Even if the Chantry told him blood magic is evil, he saw with his own eyes the truth. Your Earth is flat argument thus is invalid. He saw proof before his eyes.

Once again, answer my question before explaining why my arguments are not valid:

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
How is a power evil or not? Does it have it's own mind? Or does "evil" mean something else? May I know what?

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...



Once again, answer my question before explaining why my arguments are not valid:

Ironically your questions have been answered over and over yet you continue to ask the same ones but failing to answer questions given to you.

Also isn't explaining why your arguments are not valid in a way answering your question?

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 03 décembre 2009 - 03:56 .

[elemental150]

Must have name wrote...

The only daft thing about being a blood Mage is Wynne.

For example, during my first playthrough as a Blood Mage / Arcane Warrior, at one point where you're offered something involving Blood Magic:

Wynne: "This is Blood Magic! Surely you would not stoop to such a thing."
PC: "Umm, Wynne, I don't know if you've noticed, but i've been using Blood Magic since around level 10.
Wynne: "Wait... what?!?"
PC: "Yeah, you know the bit in combat where those guys chests stick out? Blood Magic."
Wynne: "That's easily missable..."
PC: "The glowing red blood aura around me when I run low on mana yet keep casting spells. Blood Magic.
Wynne: "Well... I have more important things to do than look at you in combat."
PC: "The sudden losses of health you get peroidically. That's me using your lifeforce."
Wynne: "What?!? I thought that was that spirit."
PC: "Infact Wynne, I don't know if you've noticed, but your second specialisation is Blood Mage... you yourself know Blood Magic.
Wynne: "Well... that certainly changes things."

Wow this is amazingling funny

[Alex Savchovsky]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...



Once again, answer my question before explaining why my arguments are not valid:

Ironically your questions have been answered over and over yet you continue to ask the same ones but failing to answer questions given to you.

I was only given nonsense talk about power "being created with the sole purpose of..."
OK, let me be a bit more specific in the questions I want answered:

1) Does a power generally, or the blood magic specifically, have a mind of it's own?
2) Are "good" and "evil" moral categories, that only exist in a sentient mind?
3) If not, what are your definitions of "good" and "evil"?
Thank you very much.

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...



Once again, answer my question before explaining why my arguments are not valid:

Ironically your questions have been answered over and over yet you continue to ask the same ones but failing to answer questions given to you.

I was only given nonsense talk about power "being created with the sole purpose of..."
OK, let me be a bit more specific in the questions I want answered:

1) Does a power generally, or the blood magic specifically, have a mind of it's own?
2) Are "good" and "evil" moral categories, that only exist in a sentient mind?
3) If not, what are your definitions of "good" and "evil"?
Thank you very much.

Already been Answered by about 5 different people.  If something is solely created to do evil than end result can only be evil, if you want a more defined explanation than that it's in the back pages you know what to do.

[Original182]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
Once again, answer my question before explaining why my arguments are not valid:

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
How is a power evil or not? Does it have it's own mind? Or does "evil" mean something else? May I know what?

In Ferelden, if the power is deviant (First Enchanter Irving) , horrifying (Niall), dangerous with roots in the Tevinter Imperium where sacrificing slaves to power blood magic is the norm, and something that allows demons to pass through physically (First Enchanter Josephus), then it is evil.

References:
http://dragonage.wik...ing.27s_Mistake

http://dragonage.wik...orbidden_School

Modifié par Original182, 03 décembre 2009 - 04:24 .

[Genraku]

Blood Magic is a tool, nothing more. It no more forces someone to be evil than a spoon forces someone to be fat.



Yes it can be used to harm, but to help as well. Blood magic can fuel a healing spell just as well as a harming spell. Noone will argue that it is a gift from a demon, or that many of its practitioners are wicked. But by itself, blood magic is neither good or evil, it merely gives you more options to deal with a situation. You could just as easily mind control that noble into adopting that orphan as kicking it. or not mind control at all.

You could argue that subverting the will of another is evil, but so is smashing someone's forehead with a hammer.

While it is not explored in game, I have to wonder if there are more benevolent applications of blood magic. If you can control a mind, can you also repair one that has gone through psychological trauma? If you can influence someone's blood, can you cure or build a resistance to blood borne diseases?

We don't know because the amount of research done with it tend to be almost entirely focused towards combat applications. To the Ebola comment, I'd liken it more to the use of a hammer rather than a disease since the disease will do its work on its own, but blood magic must be actively used for good or ill, only as evil as its user. Jowan can be a prime example, nevermind that he was told by Loghain to poison Eamon (under threat of death mind you, what do you think the templars would have done with him if Loghain hadn't intervened?) He dd attempt to help as best he could.

And if you want to take a look at Cullen and Niall, yes they've seen the worst blood magic can do, but that's no different than seeing a chainsaw massecre,yes its horrible, but its the person doing it that makes it horrible not the tool. if they hadn't used blood magic they would have found another way to cause that damage.

I guess the gist of what I'm trying to say is this Blood magic is dangerous, but is not by itself good or evil since it can be used for both. It just has a very bad stigma attached to it due to the deeds done by those that practice it.

That said, walking around with it is still akin to having a loaded gun in your hand, it'll make people scarred and get the authorities upset with you. =b

[Alex Savchovsky]

Original182 wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
Once again, answer my question before explaining why my arguments are not valid:

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
How is a power evil or not? Does it have it's own mind? Or does "evil" mean something else? May I know what?

In Ferelden, if the power is deviant (First Enchanter Irving) , horrifying (Niall), dangerous with roots in the Tevinter Imperium where sacrificing slaves to power blood magic is the norm, and something that allows demons to pass through physically (First Enchanter Josephus), then it is evil.

Once again, you avoided my exact questions. Which are there for a reason.

Since a power has no mind, it cannot be evil. It's the sentient mind that puts it to a good or evil use. The power on itself is a tool, it provides the means to do something and in this way - it means freedom. On the other hand, society relies on a set of restrictions we call morality. So eventually there is a conflict, because freedom denies restrictions. To be corrupted by power means to put this power to a use you would consider morally inappropriate, if used by another person. Any power will do. Loghain was corrupted by the power of his reputation and his armies. Branka was corrupted by the power of the Anvil - and she didn't even have it. You can find as much examples like these as you like in real history. To submit to this temptation does not mean that the power is evil, it means that you are too weak for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Original182 wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
Once again, answer my question before explaining why my arguments are not valid:

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
How is a power evil or not? Does it have it's own mind? Or does "evil" mean something else? May I know what?

In Ferelden, if the power is deviant (First Enchanter Irving) , horrifying (Niall), dangerous with roots in the Tevinter Imperium where sacrificing slaves to power blood magic is the norm, and something that allows demons to pass through physically (First Enchanter Josephus), then it is evil.

Once again, you avoided my exact questions. Which are there for a reason.

Since a power has no mind, it cannot be evil. It's the sentient mind that puts it to a good or evil use. The power on itself is a tool, it provides the means to do something and in this way - it means freedom. On the other hand, society relies on a set of restrictions we call morality. So eventually there is a conflict, because freedom denies restrictions. To be corrupted by power means to put this power to a use you would consider morally inappropriate, if used by another person. Any power will do. Loghain was corrupted by the power of his reputation and his armies. Branka was corrupted by the power of the Anvil - and she didn't even have it. You can find as much examples like these as you like in real history. To submit to this temptation does not mean that the power is evil, it means that you are too weak for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Once again he answered your question you just simply refuse to accept the answer.

If something was solely created to cause Evil and using that something only creates evil than using that something makes you evil reguardless of the intent period.

[Forsakerr]

If you eat too much ice cream you get fat and if you eat more ice cream you get fatter and you can get hearth attacks,diabetes and others diseases and/or die, so does it make ice cream evil ?

Modifié par Forsakerr, 03 décembre 2009 - 05:29 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Jacks-Up wrote...
If something was solely created to cause Evil and using that something only creates evil than using that something makes you evil reguardless of the intent period.

You cannot prove that using blood magic ONLY brings evil. To the contrary, Gray Wardens use blood magic in their Joining ritual - eventually, for the greater good of defeating the darkspawn. Also, it is generally taught by demons, but it's never said it is created by them. It is a meaning to use the power of life, and nobody considers the demons as creators of life.
Try again. 

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...
If something was solely created to cause Evil and using that something only creates evil than using that something makes you evil reguardless of the intent period.

You cannot prove that using blood magic ONLY brings evil. To the contrary, Gray Wardens use blood magic in their Joining ritual - eventually, for the greater good of defeating the darkspawn. Also, it is generally taught by demons, but it's never said it is created by them. It is a meaning to use the power of life, and nobody considers the demons as creators of life.
Try again. 

LOL Maybe you should pay more attention to the game you're playing because Blood magic does indeed come from demons it says this. 

Another note Blood Magic should be evil why? because if you truly want to be evil you only got 2 choices.

Blood Magic..evil only choice.

Reaver...evil only choice.

like I said..you must  pay attention to the game you're playing...

but nice try...next
 

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 03 décembre 2009 - 06:14 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Blood Magic..evil only choice.

Reaver...evil only choice.

Dude... seriously. I can play an templar champion evil enough to makes the darkspawn look innocent. Just as I can play a blood mage or a reaver that is as pure hearted as Andraste.

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
play a blood mage or a reaver that is as pure hearted as Andraste.

Except that totally goes against the class description and the way you go about getting it.

Once again pay more attention to the game you're playing and stop trying to mix oil and water because it simply won't work.

[Seraphael]

I agree with the OP. In a roleplaying game, becoming something as reviled as a Blood Mage should have certain repercussions. You can even have a templar and a blood mage on the team without any issues AFAIK. For me such thing undermine the setting.

[Original182]

Seraphael wrote...

I agree with the OP. In a roleplaying game, becoming something as reviled as a Blood Mage should have certain repercussions. You can even have a templar and a blood mage on the team without any issues AFAIK. For me such thing undermine the setting.

Dude I agree, and it takes your post to realize how far derailed from the original topic the current thread is.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
play a blood mage or a reaver that is as pure hearted as Andraste.

Except that totally goes against the class description and the way you go about getting it.

Once again pay more attention to the game you're playing and stop trying to mix oil and water because it simply won't work.

Not at all. I'd just play a character that is smart enough not to submit himself to superstition and prejudice.

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...


Not at all. I'd just play a character that is smart enough not to submit himself to superstition and prejudice.

Now you're just reaching.

[themaxzero]

*SPOILERS*

To be honest I don't know whats the big deal with Blood Magic. It seems everyone is using it. Morg is familiar with it, plenty of Blood Mages in the Mage towers, its the basis of the Werewolf curse, the cultists around the Urn use it, the Dwarves use it to make Golems.

Is it really a shock that no one cares that the PC can become a Blood Mage?

Modifié par themaxzero, 03 décembre 2009 - 06:55 .

[Curlain]

There certainly should be more consequences in Ferelden anyhow if you become a Blood Mage (which equals malificar in Chantry/Templar eyes) so it's kinda sad to see nothing happening when you take the Blood Mage spec. You keep getting told that it's considered the worst evil thing in the world and that the Templars hunt down blood mages without question, but your PC learns it and... nothing, nothing happens at all.

It's must be Duncan, it's that Jedi Mind trick he taught the PC, it's the only thing that makes sense

Modifié par Curlain, 03 décembre 2009 - 07:12 .

[Jacks-Up]

themaxzero wrote...


*SPOILERS*

To be honest I don't know whats the big deal with Blood Magic. It seems everyone is using it. Morg is familiar with it, plenty of Blood Mages in the Mage towers, its the basis of the Werewolf curse, the cultists around the Urn use it, the Dwarves use it to make Golems.

Is it really a shock that no one cares that the PC can become a Blood Mage?

Dwarves can't use magic, pretty sure the Werewolf curse dons't have anything to do with Blood Magic altho if it is it's done only by one guy.

The Cultists at the Urn and the Blood Mages in the tower are evil and are hiding it. Basically if you get caught using blood magic you get hunted down yet I've used it in front of just about everyone.

[Jacks-Up]

Curlain wrote...

There certainly should be more consequences in Ferelden anyhow if you become a Blood Mage (which equals malificar in Chantry/Templar eyes) so it's kinda sad to see nothing happening when you take the Blood Mage spec. You keep getting told that it's considered the worst evil thing in the world and that the Templars hunt down blood mages without question, but your PC learns it and... nothing, nothing happens at all.

Yeah if there was 1 spec in all the classes they should of had NPC's and party members comment on you becoming it's the Blood Mage.  Any other spec say for the Rever it's understandable that they wouldn't comment or care that you speced into but the way the game goes on about Blood Mages you think someone would notice.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 03 décembre 2009 - 11:12 .

[Valmy]

The Angry One wrote...
Why not? Because the Chantry says so? 
Yes let's trust the word of religious fanatics who turn to persecution, oppression, warmongering and genocide when you don't bend knee to their chosen sky-pixie.

Odd then how come they trade with and are at peace with the Dwarves?  Any evidence of this persecution, oppression, warmongering, and genocide you want to cite?

[Valmy]

It is a bit of a plot hole that you can use Blood Magic but I think it comes down to it because you are the Grey Warden and a Blight is going on people overlook it.



It is even more of a plot hole you can have Wynne learn it though.

[Mavkiel]

Valmy wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Why not? Because the Chantry says so? 
Yes let's trust the word of religious fanatics who turn to persecution, oppression, warmongering and genocide when you don't bend knee to their chosen sky-pixie.

Odd then how come they trade with and are at peace with the Dwarves?  Any evidence of this persecution, oppression, warmongering, and genocide you want to cite?

Dales, circle, templars hunting down apostates? Apostates being simply
people who don't share the Chantrys view, not users of blood magic.

Dales -- Remember when elves used to have their own lands? And not living behind walls and locked gates as second class citzins? Oh yes, a little thing called an exhalted march brought an end to that

Circle -- Created and controlled by the chantry. If your born a mage you are taken from your parents and put under lock and key, forever. Unless you manage to get some "circle" business that requires you to leave your home *cough* Prison *cough*. And oh yes, if they decide the circle is corrupt enough, they(The chantry) can get an annulment to slaughter everyone, innocent or not.