326 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Jacks-Up wrote...

So if you have a lame reason to Kidnap, Torture and Kill Innocent people it's ok and not Evil?  /Head desk

In a world like Dragon Age's, there's a difference between evil for evil's sake, and doing distasteful things.
Dark fantasy, remember? It's not anyone's problem if you can't accept that. 

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Seriously I don't know why so many people have an issue of Blood Magic being Evil?  FYI It's susposed to be Evil and I didn't Spec into it to be a goody tooshoes.

Because a power is not good or evil by itself. It simply exists.

Unless it soly exists to be or cause evil.  I'm also pretty sure blood Magic is susposed to corrupt it's user over time.

the way the lore plays out on how evil / Bad Blood magic is I don't think they will be coming out and saying  (Oh blood Magic isn't that Evil after all it's ok to use it) anytime soon. 

The soul purpose of the Blood mage and Rever Spec it to provide an evil spec / option.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 02 décembre 2009 - 02:21 .

[Jacks-Up]

The Angry One wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

So if you have a lame reason to Kidnap, Torture and Kill Innocent people it's ok and not Evil?  /Head desk

In a world like Dragon Age's, there's a difference between evil for evil's sake, and doing distasteful things.
Dark fantasy, remember? It's not anyone's problem if you can't accept that. 

Is it I can't accept it or is it you simply can't get it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Angry One wrote...
In other words, yes blood mages have done Bad Things. But so has the Chantry, and so has almost every group in the game. Avernus' actions were amoral, yes. But they weren't done for the sake of being evil.

And what is done for that case? You're not making an argument for yourself here. No one, even the most evilest people in human history, did stuff just to be evil. They all had their warped reasons.

Magic is a tool, but not all tools are qual. I can use an axe for many things. A nuke? Well, my options are far more limtied. Some tools are practicly designed with no "good" use for them. High-level blood magic is made to dominate and drain.

[The Angry One]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Unless it soly exists to be or cause evil.  I'm also pretty sure blood Magic is susposed to corrupt it's user over time.

No it doesn't.

the way the lore plays out on how evil / Bad Blood magic is I don't think they will be coming out and saying  (Oh blood Magic isn't that Evil after all it's ok to use it) anytime soon.

Except the lore never says blood magic is evil, only that it can be used for evil.

The sole purpose of the Blood mage and Rever Spec it to provide an evil spec / option.

By that logic Berserker is evil, because hey it's icon is red and it goes well with Reaver spec.
OMG OGHREN IS THE TRUE EVIL BEHEAD HIM.

[The Angry One]

Jacks-Up wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

So if you have a lame reason to Kidnap, Torture and Kill Innocent people it's ok and not Evil?  /Head desk

In a world like Dragon Age's, there's a difference between evil for evil's sake, and doing distasteful things.
Dark fantasy, remember? It's not anyone's problem if you can't accept that. 

Is it I can't accept it or is it you simply can't get it.

Okay you're a troll, gotcha.

[The Angry One]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And what is done for that case? You're not making an argument for yourself here. No one, even the most evilest people in human history, did stuff just to be evil. They all had their warped reasons.

Warped reasons that, to anyone with an objective view, are evil. Such as the ****s.

Magic is a tool, but not all tools are qual. I can use an axe for many things. A nuke? Well, my options are far more limtied. Some tools are practicly designed with no "good" use for them. High-level blood magic is made to dominate and drain.

You compare blood magic to a nuke, when it's more of a comparison to nuclear energy.
You can make nukes with nuclear energy. You can also make safe, clean power sources (no, nuclear fission isn't as bad as stupid enviro-****s make think, the biggest disasters such as Chernobyl were down to poor maintenance and human error. Nuclear fusion would be even safer).

Edit: You can't say the shorthand to describe a member of the ruling National Socialist party of Germany in the 1930's/40s? Really? What?

Modifié par The Angry One, 02 décembre 2009 - 02:25 .

[Jacks-Up]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
In other words, yes blood mages have done Bad Things. But so has the Chantry, and so has almost every group in the game. Avernus' actions were amoral, yes. But they weren't done for the sake of being evil.

And what is done for that case? You're not making an argument for yourself here. No one, even the most evilest people in human history, did stuff just to be evil. They all had their warped reasons.

Magic is a tool, but not all tools are qual. I can use an axe for many things. A nuke? Well, my options are far more limtied. Some tools are practicly designed with no "good" use for them. High-level blood magic is made to dominate and drain.

OMFG somone with some common sense.  Thank you oh wise one I bow to you.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Seriously I don't know why so many people have an issue of Blood Magic being Evil?  FYI It's susposed to be Evil and I didn't Spec into it to be a goody tooshoes.

Because a power is not good or evil by itself. It simply exists.

Unless it soly exists to be or cause evil.  I'm also pretty sure blood Magic is susposed to corrupt it's user over time.

Let me repeat myself (although I hate to do that). A power is NOT evil by itself - because "evil" is a moral category which as no meaning outside of a sentient mind. It's the user's intention and acts which put that power to "good" or "evil" use.
Oh, and the supposed "corruption"... there is a saying that power corrupts people. Not "evil" power, mind you, just power. It's all in the mind again. Power means freedom and eventually it does challenge your own moral restrictions. Those who defy these restrictions become "corrupted by power". That does not have anything to do with the nature of their power. So I see no reason why blood magic should be considered any more "evil" than the "non-blood" magic?

[Jacks-Up]

The Angry One wrote...


Except the lore never says blood magic is evil, only that it can be used for evil.

The sole purpose of the Blood mage and Rever Spec it to provide an evil spec / option.

By that logic Berserker is evil, because hey it's icon is red and it goes well with Reaver spec.
OMG OGHREN IS THE TRUE EVIL BEHEAD HIM.

But it is used for Evil and ends up being evil like 100% of the time.  The chantry just didn't up and ban blood magic and relentlessly hunt down blood mages for no reason you know.

They didn't just get a big wheel out and say ( Ok we need to forbid something bring out the big wheel of forbidden and what ever it lands on)

As for you're nuclear energy thing I'm not even going to bother quoting you to point out the wholes other than to say you're just not getting it and missed what he was trying to say.

[Vaetar]

Every 'evil' person in history did what he/she believed was right. I do suppose that same can be said for any 'evil' person in a game such as this.



Consider:

There is a child in the game that you can kill or let go. Are you evil if you kill the child?



If you know the child will kill a lot of people if you let him live, is it still evil to kill said child?



If it turns out that one of the people said child murders would have been far more 'evil', is it evil to let the child live and kill a bunch of innocents or is it more evil to kill the child and see the other person do the same?



Point: There is no fixed definition of 'evil'

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...



Let me repeat myself (although I hate to do that). A power is NOT evil by itself - because "evil" is a moral category which as no meaning outside of a sentient mind. It's the user's intention and acts which put that power to "good" or "evil" use.
Oh, and the supposed "corruption"... there is a saying that power corrupts people. Not "evil" power, mind you, just power. It's all in the mind again. Power means freedom and eventually it does challenge your own moral restrictions. Those who defy these restrictions become "corrupted by power". That does not have anything to do with the nature of their power. So I see no reason why blood magic should be considered any more "evil" than the "non-blood" magic?

Read what Lotion Soronnar wrote on this page he explains it rather nicely and gives you the answer to your question.

[andysdead]

The Angry One wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

If you were the Maker, you'd want priests that can actually jump your bones, ya know?

What does that say about Yahweh then?

/flee

in the perhaps-not-so-immortal words of Kurt Cobain:

"God is gay, burn the flag."

[Alex Savchovsky]

Jacks-Up wrote...
Read what Lotion Soronnar wrote on this page he explains it rather nicely and gives you the answer to your question. 

Not exactly. He explains why magic is a more dangerous tool than a sword. And he accents on only two possible applications of blood magic, one of which is even present in Entropy school as well.

[MBirkhofer]

The Angry One wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Unless it soly exists to be or cause evil.  I'm also pretty sure blood Magic is susposed to corrupt it's user over time.

No it doesn't.

the way the lore plays out on how evil / Bad Blood magic is I don't think they will be coming out and saying  (Oh blood Magic isn't that Evil after all it's ok to use it) anytime soon.

Except the lore never says blood magic is evil, only that it can be used for evil.

Blood magic is fueled by LIFE.  Any way you look at it, its evil.   You are killing someone to cast your spells.  There is no in game mechanic where any of your characters age 20 years, or drop dead suddenly because you fed off them too much.  But that is exactly what is happening.
The only caveat is if fueling your blood magic off your own life would be considered ok.   I would argue that yes, something so "unhealthy" would be then evil, even if used for a good cuase.

Don't confuse apostates, and blood magic-maleficar.

[MBirkhofer]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Seriously I don't know why so many people have an issue of Blood Magic being Evil?  FYI It's susposed to be Evil and I didn't Spec into it to be a goody tooshoes.

Because a power is not good or evil by itself. It simply exists.

Unless it soly exists to be or cause evil.  I'm also pretty sure blood Magic is susposed to corrupt it's user over time.

Let me repeat myself (although I hate to do that). A power is NOT evil by itself - because "evil" is a moral category which as no meaning outside of a sentient mind. It's the user's intention and acts which put that power to "good" or "evil" use.
Oh, and the supposed "corruption"... there is a saying that power corrupts people. Not "evil" power, mind you, just power. It's all in the mind again. Power means freedom and eventually it does challenge your own moral restrictions. Those who defy these restrictions become "corrupted by power". That does not have anything to do with the nature of their power. So I see no reason why blood magic should be considered any more "evil" than the "non-blood" magic?

this is wrong.
First of all, this world has gods/magic/demons.   In the real world, there are none, and we are subject only to our own moral beliefs, and the harse realities of physics.
In this fictional world, there are entities that exist purely as the embodiements of emotion.   Demons and virtues in the fade are by definition this.   Demons are evil.  They want to subvert and consume life purely for their own enjoyment. This is not even a subjective issue of surival-a wolf kills but is not evil.
You can ignore the mind control aspects of blood magic, which is inherently evil as well.  But not the only application.  Simply the fact blood magic is fueled by life force, it is evil.  It destroys life. it does not perpetuate it.

[Riona45]

Be careful what you wish for.



I'll bet if the game were more draconian towards certain characters/builds/actions, many more people would be upset than they are now.

[Alex Savchovsky]

MBirkhofer, not necessary killing. By the way, donating blood for medical supplies can also kill you - is it evil as well?

P.S.
Demons and gods existing have noting to do with it. Blood magic is a POWER, it's not a god or demon. It has no intent on it's own, it simply exists. 

Modifié par Alex Savchovsky, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:09 .

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...
Read what Lotion Soronnar wrote on this page he explains it rather nicely and gives you the answer to your question. 

Not exactly. He explains why magic is a more dangerous tool than a sword. And he accents on only two possible applications of blood magic, one of which is even present in Entropy school as well.

Than read what MBirkhofer wrote and if you still don't get it than you're not going to.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:09 .

[Jacks-Up]

Riona45 wrote...

Be careful what you wish for.

I'll bet if the game were more draconian towards certain characters/builds/actions, many more people would be upset than they are now.

I think it would make for a better story and rally make people think and stop and consider just what they spec into.

[voidcommander9111980]

look guys Blood magic is amazing



Its all about true power and destruction

as all elemental school spells :D:D



From my opinion its evil and I LIKE IT

[marc_al]

For me, blood magic is not evil at all.

It is a tool and you use it as you want (good or evil way) group heal works really well



If blood magic is evil, what about the Animate dead series (Virulent Walking bomb)

Death cloud, Death hex, Walking nightmare...

If blood magic is evil, what about Entropy school?



Marc

[MS3825]

In any case you can tell he's (Jacks-Up) no wizard (Wizard... one who is "wizened"... one who has gained "wisdom"... one who is "wise") and does not value true understanding and wisdom over rote repition of what he's been told to believe. Sad, but the majority of humans simply cannot overcome their emotions with their intelligence to use logic and must repeat what they are taught.

Someone mentioned a "nuke" not being evil but there aren't many good uses for it. A nuke is equivelent to a spell not a field of magic. Nuclear Physics, on the other hand, would maybe be like the field of Blood Magic.
Nuclear Physics, while very dangerous, has given us great tools to aid humanity: A power source.
It is used in submarines, and if the government could look past their fascist control over it could help scientists explore the ocean due to length of time that can be spent before needing to refuel... though they would need air and food supplies far before that point.
Also with that research we made huge power plants that power not just merely cities, but multiple counties. Hospitals, firehouses, comunications... our whole society relies on power. (Though not all is nuclear of course)
But gee... no... no good there.

I could get into the aeronautics field that helped design the systems that deliver nuclear bombs if you like?
But we all know no good came from aeroplanes either. I mean look at 9/11... *Uses fearmongering to promote trains and boats.*

I would explain Hitler's beliefs and why he wasn't crazy or evil  for wanting to achieve them (but severely misguided in how to get there), but you'd probably end up convulsing in a siezure from too much truth and understanding of what goes on behind the scenes of the familiar proganda you're used to.

Remember this: The illusionist wants you to look at a certain place so he can move his other hand and pick your pocket or stab you where you are blind. Anticipate this deception and you may yet overcome his attempts to use or destroy you.

Modifié par MS3825, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:38 .

[Jacks-Up]

MS3825 wrote...


I would explain Hitler's beliefs and why he wasn't crazy or evil  for wanting to achieve them (but severely misguided in how to get there), but you'd probably end up convulsing in a siezure from too much truth and understanding of what goes on behind the scenes of the familiar proganda you're used to.

All I needed to read.

[MS3825]

Thank you. At least I know that you aren't watching "The History Channel" where I got my information from so there's no chance of it going the way "The Discovery Channel" did and won't be dumbed down like that was.