326 réponses à ce sujet

[Original182]

Jacks-Up wrote...
Actually Magic is like a gun & Blood Magic is more like viles with the Ebola virus. There is actually no good you can do with this except not use it or destroy it.

A Tyrant would love to get his hands on one and use it on his enemies but no good leader would find a use for it.

Yes in wars like the Israel-Hamas conflict, there are rules of war where they are not allowed to use phosporus (sp) in war, because it is considered a war crime.
You can use guns and bombs, but phosporus is considered illegal. Um, why is phosporus more unlawful than guns and bombs?

So maybe in Ferelden, Blood Magic is considered evil, simply.... because.

[Jacks-Up]

Nosuchluck wrote...

That's an insane comparison. How is Blood magic like Ebola when normal magic isn't? Remember walking bomb and infectious hexes? I don't get why normal magic is so different. It's just as sinister.

pl refer to page 4.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 02 décembre 2009 - 05:42 .

[The Angry One]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Nosuchluck wrote...

That's an insane comparison. How is Blood magic like Ebola when normal magic isn't? Remember walking bomb and infectious hexes? I don't get why normal magic is so different. It's just as sinister.

pl refer to page 4.

And what does page 4 have other than yet more of your imbecillic view that blood magic is evil because it is evil?
I say spirit magic is evil because it is evil and is the real world equivalent of ebola. Discuss.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Original182 wrote...

I think the Exalted March is the perfect comparison to blood magic.
We see here people so quick to say the Chantry is evil based on exalted marches. But when we say blood magic is evil, oh we're ignorant.
Ok, so you picked the "evil" exalted marches that the Chantry did, meaning that the Chantry is evil. But if I try to pick the evil blood mages who attacked me in the Circle, Uldred, etc, then you automatically say "But what about Jowan? He may have made stupid mistakes, but he was a good man at heart". So not all blood mages are evil.
You are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Blood Magic users, but not the Chantry, despite there being good Chantry people. The actions of a few blood mages do not represent all of them, but the actions of the Chantry means they evil!

Truly this discussion is selective thinking at its best.

I didn't argue that the Chantry is evil. You asked for codex entries that detail evil things the Chantry has done, so I suggested the Exalted March.

This is exactly what I have been trying to say: things are not so black and white. Even the blood mages that attack you, some of them attack you because, like Wynne, they suspect the Rite of Anullment has been invoked. One of them even begs you to spare her and explains that they never wanted any of this, they just wanted to be free from the Chantrys rule.

[MS3825]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Regular magic is dangerous too. What's your point?

A kitchen knife is dangerous but they don't require you to register it like a gun. 

We give our Law enforcement offers Guns but not RPG's or viles with the Ebola virus in them to threaten criminals with.

Actually according to the 2nd and 4th amendment of the U.S. Bill of Rights any gun control laws, especially registering them, are illegal laws. The constitution, having given us the right to keep and bear arms, assumes any search based on the fact we are doing so is, in fact, a crime.
However law enforcement have jails, assault rifles, and body armor so they can murder any who do not kneel to their absolute control. Kind of like the chantry. They also do use minor explosives, perhaps you've heard of "flashbangs" which are classified as an "incendiary device". Thus those who fear death and kidnapping support them and the nation becomes weak against invasion and attack. Four legs good, two legs bad I guess.

2nd: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed."

4th: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place
to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

P.S. You meant "vials".

[Jacks-Up]

The Angry One wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Nosuchluck wrote...

That's an insane comparison. How is Blood magic like Ebola when normal magic isn't? Remember walking bomb and infectious hexes? I don't get why normal magic is so different. It's just as sinister.

pl refer to page 4.

And what does page 4 have other than yet more of your imbecillic view that blood magic is evil because it is evil?
I say spirit magic is evil because it is evil and is the real world equivalent of ebola. Discuss.

Some things were made and designed solely for the purpose to do Evil. Blood Magic is one of them and are you really surprised it comes from Demons after all.

This was explain by myself and 2 other people on page 4 and I'm not retyping it take from it what you will.

[The Angry One]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Some things were made and designed solely for the purpose to do Evil. Blood Magic is one of them and are you really surprised it comes from Demons after all.

This was explain by myself and 2 other people on page 4 and I'm not retyping it take from it what you will.

Prove that it was "designed" solely to do evil, and other schools of magic weren't.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Some things were made and designed solely for the purpose to do Evil. Blood Magic is one of them and are you really surprised it comes from Demons after all.

So is blood magic evil because it uses blood to cast the spell, or is it evil because of the results? Because you can actually use blood magic to heal people.

[Original182]

Brief off-topic message:



Hey, you guys sure you don't want to PLAY the game, rather than DISCUSS about it?

We've been at it for quite some time.

[MS3825]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

Here's a theory: The Chantry controls the lyrium trade. Maybe they oppose blood magic because blood magic negates the need for lyrium potions?

+1
Best post in this thread.

[Nosuchluck]

Jacks-Up wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Nosuchluck wrote...

That's an insane comparison. How is Blood magic like Ebola when normal magic isn't? Remember walking bomb and infectious hexes? I don't get why normal magic is so different. It's just as sinister.

pl refer to page 4.

And what does page 4 have other than yet more of your imbecillic view that blood magic is evil because it is evil?
I say spirit magic is evil because it is evil and is the real world equivalent of ebola. Discuss.

Some things were made and designed solely for the purpose to do Evil. Blood Magic is one of them and are you really surprised it comes from Demons after all.

This was explain by myself and 2 other people on page 4 and I'm not retyping it take from it what you will.

Demons are just spirits. Would you call Wynne evil because she has a guardian spirit looking after her? In some ways she's an abomination herself.

[Taleroth]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

Some things were made and designed solely for the purpose to do Evil. Blood Magic is one of them and are you really surprised it comes from Demons after all.

So is blood magic evil because it uses blood to cast the spell, or is it evil because of the results? Because you can actually use blood magic to heal people.

It's evil because the Tevinter used it.  I suspect that's what it comes down to.

[Jacks-Up]

The Angry One wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Some things were made and designed solely for the purpose to do Evil. Blood Magic is one of them and are you really surprised it comes from Demons after all.

This was explain by myself and 2 other people on page 4 and I'm not retyping it take from it what you will.

Prove that it was "designed" solely to do evil, and other schools of magic weren't.

Well the fact that it comes from Demons is a big indicator, the fact that's forbidden for a reason is another, It's designed to dominate and drain life force is also a good one.

[Jacks-Up]

Nosuchluck wrote...



Demons are just spirits. Would you call Wynne evil because she has a guardian spirit looking after her? In some ways she's an abomination herself.

Demons are evil spirits the Spirit that came to Wynne wasn't evil or it would of been a Demon.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Where does it say that blood magic comes from demons? In the Codex there's a quote which seems to be from the Maker that condemns people for using the gift that he gave them against other humans.

[Jacks-Up]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

Where does it say that blood magic comes from demons? In the Codex there's a quote which seems to be from the Maker that condemns people for using the gift that he gave them against other humans.

Someone didn't play Wardens keep or at least didn't pay attention to it.

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

Some things were made and designed solely for the purpose to do Evil. Blood Magic is one of them and are you really surprised it comes from Demons after all.

So is blood magic evil because it uses blood to cast the spell, or is it evil because of the results? Because you can actually use blood magic to heal people.

No you can't!  You can suck the life force from fellow patty members to fule yourself but thats not in anyways considered healing people. 

You've just showen you don't know what you're talking about I will say good day to you.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 02 décembre 2009 - 06:00 .

[MS3825]

Original182 wrote...

Brief off-topic message:

Hey, you guys sure you don't want to PLAY the game, rather than DISCUSS about it?
We've been at it for quite some time.

Both are quite fascinating on an intelligent level, but a debate only has as many rules as we agree to set.
Then again we have a toolset to expand the game...

[Rhys Cordelle]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Someone didn't play Wardens keep or at least didn't pay attention to it.

Are you referring to some dialogue, or are you referring to the blood mage summoning demons? This is made possible because blood magic can create a link between Thedas and the Fade. Summoning demons is something you can do with blood magic, which doesn't mean that demons are the cause of blood magic.

No you can't!  You can suck the life force from fellow patty members to fule yourself but thats not in anyways considered healing people. 

You've just showen you don't know what you're talking about I will say good day to you.

Ah, yes you can. You activate blood magic mode and then you use your blood to cast a spirit healer, or creation school spell.

[The Angry One]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Nosuchluck wrote...



Demons are just spirits. Would you call Wynne evil because she has a guardian spirit looking after her? In some ways she's an abomination herself.

Demons are evil spirits the Spirit that came to Wynne wasn't evil or it would of been a Demon.

Demons and spirits are human concepts imposed on the inhabitants of the Fade.

[lavosslayer]

MS3825 wrote...

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

Here's a theory: The Chantry controls the lyrium trade. Maybe they oppose blood magic because blood magic negates the need for lyrium potions?

+1
Best post in this thread.

That would certainly be the case if it were applied to RL....and since Fereldan parrallels alot of RL concepts why not?

[Jacks-Up]

The Angry One wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Nosuchluck wrote...



Demons are just spirits. Would you call Wynne evil because she has a guardian spirit looking after her? In some ways she's an abomination herself.

Demons are evil spirits the Spirit that came to Wynne wasn't evil or it would of been a Demon.

Demons and spirits are human concepts imposed on the inhabitants of the Fade.

Reguardless Demons = Evil

[AKOdin]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Actually Magic is like a gun & Blood Magic is more like viles with the Ebola virus. There is actually no good you can do with this except not use it or destroy it.

A Tyrant would love to get his hands on one and use it on his enemies but no good leader would find a use for it.

Firmly in the "Blood Magic is a tool" category. The game tells us that BM can provide power to a Mage to cast a spell when they individually lack the mana (Jowan and Isolde). The game also tells us that BM doesn't have to kill others when drawing on their life force (Ingame play, Tevinter Codex Entries).
 
Others don't have to possess any magical talent to power the mage. So, for example, a BM/Spirit Healer could use BM to save/heal more people they could with just their own power by drawing on volunteers/slaves. They could also use BM to cast spells beyond their normal capability to heal.

Anyway, I don't see BM as the Ebola virus b/c it can be used to enable healing as well as mind control.

[MS3825]

I just remembered... There's a game for SNES called "Paladins Quest" (I think).
In that game there is no such thing as MP. You use your HP to cast all spells.
Blood magic?
Oh and you accidentally set loose a bound ancient evil monster when you and your friends are dared to go in the forbidden part of the magic school you attend.
Darn evil blood mages always letting loose demons and such.

Modifié par MS3825, 02 décembre 2009 - 07:22 .

[Vaetar]

Jacks-Up wrote...

*snip*

Reguardless Demons = Evil

Explain? As far as I can tell from the game: Demons are spirits of the Fade that wish to leave it. How is this evil?

[MS3825]

"Demons" are the embodiment of what are considered "negative" emotions of sleepers. Rage, envy, desire, pride.
"Spirits" are those that are the embodiment of the "positive" emotions they see in sleepers and guests in the fade.

They are both the same type of beings but some choose different emotions they see in people as their path to understanding the material plane. "Evil" is a subjective term as we have established because the desire "demons" bring happiness and contentment to their "victims".

Modifié par MS3825, 02 décembre 2009 - 07:29 .