326 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...
This is exactly what I have been trying to say: things are not so black and white. Even the blood mages that attack you, some of them attack you because, like Wynne, they suspect the Rite of Anullment has been invoked. One of them even begs you to spare her and explains that they never wanted any of this, they just wanted to be free from the Chantrys rule.

I could fee lsorry for her, but that was a impossible wish. More like wishfull thinking. They wanted to self-police themselves? Yeah right. Like anyone would ever allow that. Especially after half the circle went crazy.
Like anyone would trust that self-policing?

There's a reason why police and military have different, detached branches for internal control.

[eschilde]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I could fee lsorry for her, but that was a impossible wish. More like wishfull thinking. They wanted to self-police themselves? Yeah right. Like anyone would ever allow that. Especially after half the circle went crazy.
Like anyone would trust that self-policing?

There's a reason why police and military have different, detached branches for internal control.

The reason they went crazy was because they felt like they were being oppressed and felt like blood magic was the only way to take a step forward. Closest situation I can think of is it'd be 1984-ish, living with someone always watching you. I can understand wanting to break out of that kind of situation, not that I agree with the steps they took. If they were self-policed in the first place it might never have happened.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Big Brother is watching you. Even when you bathe, apparently, according to one of the apprentice mages.

[Jacks-Up]

Vaetar wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

*snip*

Reguardless Demons = Evil

Explain? As far as I can tell from the game: Demons are spirits of the Fade that wish to leave it. How is this evil?

I'm not even going to even try to explain why demons are evil if you truly don't know I suggest you  stop smoking drugs.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 02 décembre 2009 - 10:40 .

[Jacks-Up]

eschilde wrote...


The reason they went crazy was because they felt like they were being oppressed and felt like blood magic was the only way to take a step forward. Closest situation I can think of is it'd be 1984-ish, living with someone always watching you. I can understand wanting to break out of that kind of situation, not that I agree with the steps they took. If they were self-policed in the first place it might never have happened.

Yeah and look what happened it obviously corrupted them.

[Original182]

Hey folks, I have a new take on why Blood Magic is evil.
We as gamers cannot determine whether or not Blood Magic is evil, because we see the Blood Magic specialization as just 4 talents, plus stat boosts. We only see the practical side of blood magic.
The only people who know for sure whether blood magic is evil, are the people in ferelden. So the first hand testimonies of Ferelden people would be key.

1. In Codex entry 238, Enchanter Irving labels blood magic users as deviants. The first enchanter Irving himself, the leader of the Mages Circle, acknowledges blood magic is no good.

I followed another apprentice through supposed secret maneuvers today, and exposed her tendency towards blood magic. The environment of the tower is such that certain modes of thought are encouraged, both for good and ill. The students think we toy with them. The truth is far more intricate and directed. Deviant traits must be exposed early, or the whole of the Circle suffers.

http://dragonage.wik...ing.27s_Mistake

When talking to Niall in the fade, he commented that he saw real blood magic in action for the first time.


When I chose option 3, asking him whether he wants that power, he said he doesn't want it.


Niall, who saw first hand what real blood magic looks like, doesn't want that power. Why? Because it is no good.

First-hand testimonies of mages, the people who know best about magic, believe that blood magic is no good.

Modifié par Original182, 03 décembre 2009 - 01:51 .

[Walina]

When you play mage you can reply to the blood mage that you don't need blod magic to do things (something like that) and I agree.



Blood magic is the easy path but the mos dangerous one too.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Original182 wrote...

First-hand testimonies of mages, the people who know best about magic, believe that blood magic is no good.

Won't you understand that a power can't be good or evil by itself? It does not have intent, behavior or moral. How would it be good or evil?

[Jacks-Up]

Walina wrote...

When you play mage you can reply to the blood mage that you don't need blod magic to do things (something like that) and I agree.

Blood magic is the easy path but the mos dangerous one too.

Dangerous because it's evil.  Blood Magic is there  for people that wanted to play as an evil mage.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 03 décembre 2009 - 02:00 .

[Jacks-Up]

The Angry One wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

It's silly to thnik that summoning Demons and using peoples life energy to the point of killing them isn't evil.

Except that isn't all there is to blood magic.

You have said that before yet have yet to provide an example of what else is there.

[The Angry One]

Using one's own life energy.

Using other's energy without killing them.

Enhancing one's own's spells.

Mind controlling enemies (a more advanced version of an Entropy spell).



Your refusal to see the obvious isn't my problem, please continue to be an ignorant troll.



Oh and as for Niall, I'll remind you he's scared and trapped in a dream world after Uldred did his deed. Of-freaking-course he's scared of blood magic.

[Jacks-Up]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Original182 wrote...

First-hand testimonies of mages, the people who know best about magic, believe that blood magic is no good.

Won't you understand that a power can't be good or evil by itself? It does not have intent, behavior or moral. How would it be good or evil?

Won't you understand some things are created for the sole purpose to do evil?

I think the only reason you have a problem of understanding this is because you want your mage to be blood but don't want to be evil. 

Sorry but this is one of the cases that you can't have your cake and eat it to.  this game is about choices and "IF" you chose to turn to Blood Magic you in turn also chose to be Evil "END" of discussion.

[The Angry One]

Prove that blood magic was created solely for the purpose of evil.

[Original182]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Original182 wrote...
First-hand testimonies of mages, the people who know best about magic, believe that blood magic is no good.

Won't you understand that a power can't be good or evil by itself? It does not have intent, behavior or moral. How would it be good or evil?

Then how come mages don't want blood magic? How come they don't use your logic? They know a lot of destructive magic, but they shun blood magic. This is an indication that they believe blood magic is evil.

[The Angry One]

Original182 wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Original182 wrote...
First-hand testimonies of mages, the people who know best about magic, believe that blood magic is no good.

Won't you understand that a power can't be good or evil by itself? It does not have intent, behavior or moral. How would it be good or evil?

Then how come mages don't want blood magic? How come they don't use your logic? They know a lot of destructive magic, but they shun blood magic. This is an indication that they believe blood magic is evil.

They're taught all their lives that blood magic is evil by the Chantry. That it is wrong. That they will be killed for dabbling in it, and are prevented from even READING about it.
Just because something is percieved to be evil, in this case due to the dogma of the biggest bunch of liars on the planet, it doesn't make it so.

[Jacks-Up]

The Angry One wrote...

Using other's energy without killing them.
Enhancing one's own's spells.
Mind controlling enemies (a more advanced version of an Entropy spell).

Your refusal to see the obvious isn't my problem, please continue to be an ignorant troll.

K "Using others energy without killing them" Um yeah you can kill them read the spell description

"Enhancing one's own's spells." Through life energy at the expense of others nuff said.

"Mind controlling enemies" Dominance and Draining also enough said.

"Your" refusal to see the obvious that Blood Magic is indeed evil isn't my problem and you're welcome to just not read my thread anytime you wish.

The Angry One wrote...
Oh and as for Niall, I'll remind you he's scared and trapped in a dream world after Uldred did his deed. Of-freaking-course he's scared of blood magic.

Yeah and he has reason I rest my case.

[Jacks-Up]

The Angry One wrote...

Prove that blood magic was created solely for the purpose of evil.

It comes from demons.

[Original182]

The Angry One wrote...

Original182 wrote...
Then how come mages don't want blood magic? How come they don't use your logic? They know a lot of destructive magic, but they shun blood magic. This is an indication that they believe blood magic is evil.

They're taught all their lives that blood magic is evil by the Chantry. That it is wrong. That they will be killed for dabbling in it, and are prevented from even READING about it.
Just because something is percieved to be evil, in this case due to the dogma of the biggest bunch of liars on the planet, it doesn't make it so.

Niall had already resigned himself to death in the Fade. He didn't have to fear the Chantry. He thinks blood magic is bad not because the "Chantry told him so", but because he saw it first hand. I backed it up with screenshots.

And prove to me that the Chantry teaches them that blood magic is evil.
Prove to me that the Chantry is the biggest liar on the planet.
Until you can prove that, your statements are invalid. They are just opinions, not facts.

At least I back it up with Codex entries of the First Enchanter's stance and screenshots of Niall.

[The Angry One]

Jacks-Up wrote...

K "Using others energy without killing them" Um yeah you can kill them read the spell description

YOU read the description, it may kill them if overused, but it won't necesarrily.

"Enhancing one's own's spells." Through life energy at the expense of others nuff said.

Or one's own, I like how you ignored that first point.

"Mind controlling enemies" Dominance and Draining also enough said.

Explain why Entropy spells where you can force people to experience terrifying nightmares and addle their minds to the extent that they'll attack their own allies (a cruder but similar effect to domination) is alright but this isn't.

"Your" refusal to see the obvious that Blood Magic is indeed evil isn't my problem and you're welcome to just not read my thread anytime you wish.

Your simple-minded black and white view of this is irritating, you're welcome to just not post at all by the way.

Yeah and he has reason I rest my case.

And someone else might be scared to death of me throwing a fireball in their general direction, burning their friends alive.
Therefore primal magic is evil.
You have no case.

[The Angry One]

Jacks-Up wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Prove that blood magic was created solely for the purpose of evil.

It comes from demons.

All magic comes from the Old Gods.
Explain why the Old Gods are that much more virtuous than demons.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Original182 wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Original182 wrote...
First-hand testimonies of mages, the people who know best about magic, believe that blood magic is no good.

Won't you understand that a power can't be good or evil by itself? It does not have intent, behavior or moral. How would it be good or evil?

Then how come mages don't want blood magic? How come they don't use your logic? They know a lot of destructive magic, but they shun blood magic. This is an indication that they believe blood magic is evil.

Some centuries back people believed the Earth was flat. What you believe is largely formed by what you are taught to believe. So would you answer my question? How is a power evil or not? Does it have it's own mind? Or does "evil" mean something else? May I know what?

[The Angry One]

[quote]Original182 wrote...

Niall had already resigned himself to death in the Fade. He didn't have to fear the Chantry. He thinks blood magic is bad not because the "Chantry told him so", but because he saw it first hand. I backed it up with screenshots.[/quote]

So what? You're putting up the opinion of one mage as proof?
He's been the victim of the worst side of blood magic first hand, plus there's the dogma he's been subjected to all his life.
Presenting such biased views in a court of law would get you laughed out.

[quote]And prove to me that the Chantry teaches them that blood magic is evil.
Prove to me that the Chantry is the biggest liar on the planet.
Until you can prove that, your statements are invalid. They are just opinions, not facts.

At least I back it up with Codex entries of the First Enchanter's stance and screenshots of Niall.[/quote]

All you have is the opinions of people who've been taught that blood magic is evil all their lives.

[/quote]

Oh you don't think spreading the lie about the Chant saving everyone to spread their own influence is a lie?
How about destroying the Dales after their messiah promised the elves freedom?
Or that they demand allegiance to a nebulous deity that doesn't show itself on pain of death?

[Original182]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Original182 wrote...
Then how come mages don't want blood magic? How come they don't use your logic? They know a lot of destructive magic, but they shun blood magic. This is an indication that they believe blood magic is evil.

Some centuries back people believed the Earth was flat. What you believe is largely formed by what you are taught to believe. So would you answer my question? How is a power evil or not? Does it have it's own mind? Or does "evil" mean something else? May I know what?

Niall saw with his own eyes what real blood magic looks like, and said that it was akin to the Maker's wrath. This is a mage who knows magic, but still thinks blood magic is much worse. And when asked whether he wanted that power, he said no.
So no, he did not believe blood magic is evil simply because the Chantry told him so, but he saw with his own eyes what it is like. Even if the Chantry told him blood magic is evil, he saw with his own eyes the truth. Your Earth is flat argument thus is invalid. He saw proof before his eyes.

[The Angry One]

Original182 wrote...

Niall saw with his own eyes what real blood magic looks like, and said that it was akin to the Maker's wrath. This is a mage who knows magic, but still thinks blood magic is much worse. And when asked whether he wanted that power, he said no.
So no, he did not believe blood magic is evil simply because the Chantry told him so, but he saw with his own eyes what it is like. Even if the Chantry told him blood magic is evil, he saw with his own eyes the truth. Your Earth is flat argument thus is invalid. He saw proof before his eyes.

Alright enough of this. Niall was in no fit state to judge anything.
If we were to go by the opinions of the recent victims of the attack on the tower who were panicked, exhausted and afraid.. then Cullen is right. The mages can't be saved. Kill them all. It's the only way to be sure.

Don't argue with this now, Cullen saw everything first hand. He must be right and not biased or compromised in any way.

[Original182]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Original182 wrote...
Niall had already resigned himself to death in the Fade. He didn't have to fear the Chantry. He thinks blood magic is bad not because the "Chantry told him so", but because he saw it first hand. I backed it up with screenshots.[/quote]

So what? You're putting up the opinion of one mage as proof?
He's been the victim of the worst side of blood magic first hand, plus there's the dogma he's been subjected to all his life.
Presenting such biased views in a court of law would get you laughed out.[/quote]

Actually in the court of law, he is an important witness, because he saw with his own eyes how blood magic works. It was evil enough for him that he would never take it even if it was on a platter. He saw the reality of blood magic, not dogma.
The court won't reject a witness just because you don't approve.

[quote]
[quote]And prove to me that the Chantry teaches them that blood magic is evil.
Prove to me that the Chantry is the biggest liar on the planet.
Until you can prove that, your statements are invalid. They are just opinions, not facts.

At least I back it up with Codex entries of the First Enchanter's stance and screenshots of Niall.[/quote]

All you have is the opinions of people who've been taught that blood magic is evil all their lives.

[/quote]

Oh you don't think spreading the lie about the Chant saving everyone to spread their own influence is a lie?
How about destroying the Dales after their messiah promised the elves freedom?
Or that they demand allegiance to a nebulous deity that doesn't show itself on pain of death?

[/quote]

Proof please. What I think is irrelevant. Give me facts. Codex entries, screenshots. Give me something solid from the game.
I think YOU are the one who will get thrown out of court with no proof.

Modifié par Original182, 03 décembre 2009 - 02:34 .