58 ответов в этой теме

[peddroelm]

Aranha wrote...

So if armor has a flat 50 damage reduction that would make the majority of auto AR & SMGs deal 0 damage?

Not quite .. The 50 DR does not apply to weapon base damage you see listed on tables comparing weapons .. It applies on the damage calculated (including various bonuses from abilities, add-ons , equipment ...) .. But yes those shots that are still under 50 will inflict only 5 damage ...

Also the various piecing effects from ammo (cryo , warp, AP, add-ons) all lower the 50 DR ... Ammo damage from ammo powers that work against armor (AP,Warp, incediary ...) also completley bypases armor DR ...

Сообщение изменено: peddroelmz, 28 Март 2012 - 12:47 .

[peddroelm]

Courtesy of Tangster I have received the HP intervals for enemies in Insanity extracted from the game datafiles ... There seems to be level//area scaling involved there is a starting base value X and a maximum value Y (X*1.5) for all stats ... For example

Brute (X=6000.0f,Y=9000.0f) || my tests were done on the first brute on in the game (turian mission - so it had 6000 hit points)

Banshee
StatName=\\"MaxHealth\\",StatRange=(X=11250.0f,Y=16875.0f)), //armor
StatName=\\"MaxBarriers\\",StatRange=(X=6750.0f,Y=10125.0f)) //barrier

I've tested vs the Banshee on Horizon and reported ~14 k armor and ~8k barrier (~X*1.25)

Since there aren't that many enemies I will clean up the file and add the intervals for the other monsters in a few hours ...

[swn32]

Athenau wrote...

And it no longer works for shepard. WTF were they thinking.

It does still work for Shepard. No single hit attack will ever do health damage.

Shield gate is a great gameplay mechanic to balance low ROF vs high ROF weapons. I don't see the problem. If anything, it isn't enough because the low ROF semi-autos absolutely dominate most of the automatic weapons.

Because a tiny bit of shields stopping an entire widow shot is downright retarded. It makes playing as a sniper very frustrating.

Secondly, 1 grenade can kill shepard even if i'm is at full health and shields, where as my grenades do not touch the health of a shielded enemy. Shield gating does NOT work for Shepard the same way it does for enemies.

And how does shield gate balance low ROF and high ROF weapons. High ROF weapons generally have higher dps compared to low ROF weapons. Low ROF weapons depend on accuracy.

Either way I dont care at the moment, I've deleted ME3 quite a while back and dont plan to reinstall in the near future.

Сообщение изменено: swn32, 28 Март 2012 - 02:46 .

[Aranha]

Quick question: Take a AR with 50 damage forexample. How much of that armor can be reduced with Piercing mod + Armor pen ammo?

[peddroelm]

Aranha wrote...

Quick question: Take a AR with 50 damage forexample. How much of that armor can be reduced with Piercing mod + Armor pen ammo?

This is a line from the config relevant for SP - insanity 
(StatName=\\"AIArmorDamageReduction\\",StatRange=(X=50.0f,Y=50.0f)) ) {all armored targets have 50 DR in SP insanity}

I've just been informed that the MP configuration files for DR have diffrent values for DR based on the difficulty settings (Bronze, Silver , Gold) - somebody will make a post about it on the MP forum ...

Armor Damage Reduction values for each level (MP) are as follows:
Bronze = 15
Silver = 30
Gold = 50 

====================

You need to be more specific 50  is the base weapon damage ? Why not name the weapon in that case ? Or 50 is the damage after damage modifiers are aplied ? 

Example 3: (AP ammo lvl 1 & AP wpn mod)

Predator I + WpnMod AP lvl2 (35% pierce) + AP ammo lvl 1 + AR(75%)  vs brutebody

58.8*0.1 +(58.8*(1+0.75)*1 - 50*(1 - 0.5 -0.35))= 101.28

Intresting here we have 50% AP piercing for AP ammo and 35% AP piercing from WeaponAdd-on (in the case of AP ammo they add toghether) 

So on SP using AP ammo lvl 1 & an ammo piercing mod that adds 35% piercing reduces 50 DR to 50 * (1 - 0.5 - 0.35) = 7.5  ...

I haven't tested too see if AP ammo rank 6 (75% )  piercing and weapon mod remove all DR ...

Сообщение изменено: peddroelmz, 28 Март 2012 - 03:34 .

[peddroelm]

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc

link to HP interval for insanity. Y =X*1.5 ... Enemies gain HP as you advance the story (area scaling) or as you gain levels (level scaling) or a combination of both ... 

Сообщение изменено: peddroelmz, 28 Март 2012 - 04:19 .

[Aranha]

peddroelmz wrote...

Aranha wrote...

Quick question: Take a AR with 50 damage forexample. How much of that armor can be reduced with Piercing mod + Armor pen ammo?

This is a line from the config relevant for SP - insanity 
(StatName="AIArmorDamageReduction",StatRange=(X=50.0f,Y=50.0f)) ) {all armored targets have 50 DR in SP insanity}

I've just been informed that the MP configuration files for DR have diffrent values for DR based on the difficulty settings (Bronze, Silver , Gold) - somebody will make a post about it on the MP forum ...

Armor Damage Reduction values for each level (MP) are as follows:
Bronze = 15
Silver = 30
Gold = 50 

====================

You need to be more specific 50  is the base weapon damage ? Why not name the weapon in that case ? Or 50 is the damage after damage modifiers are aplied ? 

Example 3: (AP ammo lvl 1 & AP wpn mod)

Predator I + WpnMod AP lvl2 (35% pierce) + AP ammo lvl 1 + AR(75%)  vs brutebody

58.8*0.1 +(58.8*(1+0.75)*1 - 50*(1 - 0.5 -0.35))= 101.28

Intresting here we have 50% AP piercing for AP ammo and 35% AP piercing from WeaponAdd-on (in the case of AP ammo they add toghether) 

So on SP using AP ammo lvl 1 & an ammo piercing mod that adds 35% piercing reduces 50 DR to 50 * (1 - 0.5 - 0.35) = 7.5  ...

I haven't tested too see if AP ammo rank 6 (75% )  piercing and weapon mod remove all DR ...

Yeah i was thinking basicly if you hit something with 50 damage right of the bat while the enemy has armor @ 50DR. But i get it thanks a bunch for the info!

[realgundam]

you know those skills that gives X% to head shots?
are they 150%+x% or actual damage *20% (2.5*1.2)?

[peddroelm]

realgundam wrote...

you know those skills that gives X% to head shots?
are they 150%+x% or actual damage *20% (2.5*1.2)?

I don't know exaclty how HS modifiers interact. (I know that they work and they increase th HS multiplier but the formula is a bit more complicated..)  

In SP there are skills (rank 5) for ammo powers (all but cryo) that give +25% HS damage . The 25%  from this skill is global and applies to all weapon damage   (WeaponDamage*1.25 ..)

For the MP skill  20% extra HS-  its position- is still as a Rank 5 evolution  and thats why it might work like the bonuses from ammo powers work in SP .. (WeaponDamage*1.2) . ..

Now that we know the rest of the damage formula and also the enemies HP on various difficulty levels (there is a thread on the MP forum) ... some tests could be devized  ... (countles posibilities)

Ex .. Soldier with 27.5% (max) skill ED Saber I (350.9 base damage) 
on a HS (without the 20% skill) would score 350.1 * (1 + 0.275) * 2.5 = 1115.94375
A silver assault trooper has 1125 Health (should barelly survive the HS) 

Addig tthe 20% - as a global multiplier 350.1 * (1 + 0.275) * 2.5 * 1.2 = 1339.1325
A silver Cannibal has 1350 HP (again barelly survive the HS) ....

EDIT
Main Post now explains how this works 

Сообщение изменено: peddroelmz, 12 Апрель 2012 - 07:11 .

[Athenau]

Because a tiny bit of shields stopping an entire widow shot is downright retarded. It makes playing as a sniper very frustrating.

So use disruptor and you can still get a one shot kill if they only have a "tiny bit of shields left"?   And makes playing as a sniper "very frustrating"? Please, sniping is still very strong in ME3.  If you expect sniping to be god mode like it was in ME2, prepare to be disappointed.  Otherwise it's fine.

Secondly, 1 grenade can kill shepard even if i'm is at full health and shields, where as my grenades do not touch the health of a shielded enemy. Shield gating does NOT work for Shepard the same way it does for enemies.

My bad--it's true that there are some instakill attacks that bypass this mechanic for shepard, but by and large it works for your shields as well, and has for the past two games.  If you're arguing that instakill shouldn't exist, well I agree.

And how does shield gate balance low ROF and high ROF weapons. High ROF weapons generally have higher dps compared to low ROF weapons. Low ROF weapons depend on accuracy.

Uh no.  Low ROF weapons in the game generally have higher burst, higher dps, higher accuracy, and much better performance against armor.  Shield gate is a good soft counter for low ROF weapons that prevents them from just one shotting everything once you get enough damage modifiers.

Сообщение изменено: Athenau, 29 Март 2012 - 11:56 .

[TheInvoker]

peddroelmz wrote...

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc

link to HP interval for insanity. Y =X*1.5 ... Enemies gain HP as you advance the story (area scaling) or as you gain levels (level scaling) or a combination of both ... 

maybe there is one of the combo's damage too

[TheInvoker]

i tried mattock on atlas
Only Mattock did 67.5 damage
Mattock with Warp Ammo (damage,capacity,damage) did 166.7 damage
Cryo Blast + Mattock did 93.5 damage
Cryo Blast (level 5 i prefer speed reduction so you culd add further +10% damage takern,level 6 frozen vulnerability) + Mattock with Warp Ammo did 219.2 damage,so i tested that cryo blast works
Shooting on the glass (not always....maybe not all the glass,i don't know) gives 20% bonus damage (80.9)

Mattock was modified with piercing mod I (25%) and i have 5% wepon bonus damage from passive power and 10% from armor

Сообщение изменено: TheInvoker, 29 Март 2012 - 11:15 .

[Athenau]

Wait, why did warp ammo give you more than double damage?

[TheInvoker]

Athenau wrote...

Wait, why did warp ammo give you more than double damage?

no idea....maybe i hit the glass
Only now i found out that aiming the glass gives you a 20% bonus but even without that 20% would be something like 140
I'll try again

[Kallenin]

So where does all this data for the enemy health/barrier/shield strengths and weapon damages come from? I understand that there are spreadsheets online, but I mean those have to come from somewhere too... And how are people getting the damage numbers from in-game play? The MP forum has posts with people showing results from damage tests. How can I do my own?

[peddroelm]

Kallenin wrote...

So where does all this data for the enemy health/barrier/shield strengths and weapon damages come from? I understand that there are spreadsheets online, but I mean those have to come from somewhere too... And how are people getting the damage numbers from in-game play? The MP forum has posts with people showing results from damage tests. How can I do my own?

The weapon stats // enemy HP pools are extracted from the game data resource files ..

Memeditor to read the enemy hitpoint values as the game plays .. But the process is slow  (iterative) with my level of skill )  so its only feasable on SP .. But  MP & SP use the same game mechanics for the most part so the results can be use for MP as well ...

Сообщение изменено: peddroelmz, 30 Март 2012 - 03:38 .

[Kitty Fae]

For Banshees, try shooting their pregnant bellies. I think that's their weak spot.

Might be possible that the headshot bonus, applies to a banshee's navel instead...

[peddroelm]

Kitty Fae wrote...

For Banshees, try shooting their pregnant bellies. I think that's their weak spot.

Might be possible that the headshot bonus, applies to a banshee's navel instead...

Same damage - no weak spot

[Kitty Fae]

peddroelmz wrote...

Kitty Fae wrote...

For Banshees, try shooting their pregnant bellies. I think that's their weak spot.

Might be possible that the headshot bonus, applies to a banshee's navel instead...

Same damage - no weak spot

Aww. But everyone said.. *sigh* Back to the drawing board..

[Moonwish]

Im interested, is there any difference between the shield/armor/health dmg of weapons like in me2, or only the dmg of a one shot counts? And what is that ~3 multiplier you added? I dont understand why it is there. A guy tested most of the enemies, cant find that post, but bunshees get more dmg when you shoot them on their belly (yep its wierd), geth primes from faceshot(frontal headshot), brutes from spine shots, atlas for glass, and jet shots. I tested them myself, and I manage to get better damages if I shoot those areas.

[Kallenin]

peddroelmz wrote...

Weapon_Damage = AmmoPowerDamage + Actual_Weapon_damage

Ammo_Power_Damage = BaseWpnDamage * AmmoPowerMod
Actual_Weapon_Damage =  BaseWpnDamage * Sum_Damage_Mods * HSmod - Target_DR * DR_PiercingMods "

So where do effects that increase damage to a target go, like the proximity mine (level 5 upgrade)?  Would that subtract from Target_DR?

[peddroelm]

Moonwish wrote...Im interested, is there any difference between the shield/armor/health dmg of weapons like in me2,

No, weapons do same damage vs all protections and health ... Abilities however do have different multipliers (tested energy drain so far vs health, barriers and shields   *3 vs shield& barrier, *0.5 vs health)

Moonwish wrote...And what is that ~3 multiplier you added? I dont understand why it is there.

Default damage multiplier is 1. Then you add bonuses from all sources such as skills (adrenaline rush, infiltrate cloak,..), weapon add-ons , passives ,...It can exceed 3 in SP ...

Moonwish wrote... A guy tested most of the enemies, cant find that post, but bunshees get more dmg when you shoot them on their belly 

I've done almost a hundred shots vs a banshee on a test enviroment  (head, belly , back ..) - CONSITENT DAMAGE - NO WEAK SPOT ...If there were a weak spot inflitrators should've been able to 1 shot a banshee with full armor ...  Same "proof" for the brute -> infitrators with mantis I would be able to 1 shot the brute ... From a game design point of view I could understand why they would't like those boss monsters to go down in 1 hit ...Haven't tested vs the other armored units ...

Kallenin wrote...So where do effects that increase damage to a target go, like the proximity mine (level 5 upgrade)?  Would that subtract from Target_DR?

Did not test any of those skills (only Cryo ammo lvl 6 and it works vs Target_DR)... Could be that some lower Target_DR ... Could be that some add to the damage multiplier (Sum_Damage_Mods)...

Сообщение изменено: peddroelmz, 02 Апрель 2012 - 11:34 .

[mrkitties420]

So going from example 4 if I understand this correctly both the power warp and cryo ammo at level 6 can have a 50% armor weakening while a level 5 piercing mod ignores 65% of armor. Shooting an armored target that is both warped and chilled with a level 5 piercing mod will give:

50*(1 - 0.5)*(1 - 0.5)*(1 - 0.65) = 4.375 effective DR?

[peddroelm]

RatCat420 wrote...

So going from example 4 if I understand this correctly both the power warp and cryo ammo at level 6 can have a 50% armor weakening while a level 5 piercing mod ignores 65% of armor. Shooting an armored target that is both warped and chilled with a level 5 piercing mod will give:

50*(1 - 0.5)*(1 - 0.5)*(1 - 0.65) = 4.375 effective DR?

I did not test what you ask here (it is what how I would expect it to work though).. But from what I hear about overload canceling the warp effect for biotic detonations - it might be that only one might be affecting the target in the same time (chill or warp) ... Still It would be difficult to test so I might never do it ....

==========

Updated top post with findings on the head shot modifier ...

Сообщение изменено: peddroelmz, 03 Апрель 2012 - 06:47 .

[Volmax]

Blennus wrote...

Wait... as a cloaked infiltrator I think I remember that shooting Brutes in the head did increase damage taken. It's just that Their head's are weirdly disjointed from their body that you have to aim right. Am I recalling this incorrectly?

Hitting the brute's head is very difficult, but I've noticed a massive damage increase the few times I've done it.

The banshee on the other hand seems to be absolutely no difference between headshots and body shots.