15 réponses à ce sujet

[TheInvoker]

So what's the difference in ME3???
Since i've read that all the weapons do the same damage to all of these 3 kind o protections...

is not better a SMG against shield anymore?? or an heavy pistol against armor?

I'm confused

[Kronner]

TheInvoker wrote...
all the weapons do the same damage to all of these 3 kind o protections...

Yes. 

[TheInvoker]

so why should i carry more than 1 weapon if they have the same damage's bonus?? i thought there was one kind that was better against armor etc etc....

[miltos33]

TheInvoker wrote...

so why should i carry more than 1 weapon if they have the same damage's bonus?? i thought there was one kind that was better against armor etc etc....

Because some weapons are better at close range, e.g. shotguns, while other weapons are better at long range, e.g. sniper rifles.

[Fortack]

miltos33 wrote...

TheInvoker wrote...

so why should i carry more than 1 weapon if they have the same damage's bonus?? i thought there was one kind that was better against armor etc etc....

Because some weapons are better at close range, e.g. shotguns, while other weapons are better at long range, e.g. sniper rifles.

There are no range bonuses in ME3 as far as I can tell. Shotguns fire multiple projectiles per shot and some (shotguns) need to be fired at close range in order to have all projectiles hit the target for max damage.
Unfortunately, weapons are for the most part gimmicks in this game. There are, however, some that have nice synergy with certain ammo power effects, but in general it's "best" (most effective) to use a heavy pistol only (Carnifex or Paladin) and attach a scope - it hits hard at all ranges and has the accuracy of a sniper rifle.

[peddroelm]

 the weapon role separation is implemented as fallows : 
Armored targets have Damage Reduce (50) which is removed from the damage of any attack .. All attacks that do less damage than 50  will do minimum_damage (5) ... Most rapid fire weapons(smgs, ARs, some pistols, raptor SR)  have low damage per shot and will thus lose a good percentage of their DPS when employed vs armored targets ...
Damage from ammo powers bypasses DR (but ammo damage alone is low), AP piercing mods could be used  -> but overall low damage per shot weapons will struggle vs armored targets ...
Ex ... A Shuriken 6 round burst will do 30 (all six shots) damage vs a brute ...Activating Rank 1 Warp ammo would add a weak armor penetration  25% effect - insufficient to offset the weapon's low damage . Six rounds will still deal 30 damage + additional damage from warp ammo  (~29 ) almost doubling damage inflicted ( but still huge cut in dps ) ...
A Mantis SR has 615.6 base damage . Even without damage modifiers , upgrades , piercing effects  it will only lose 50 damage per shot vs an armored target ... High damage per shot weapons don't lose significant amounts of DPS vs armored targets 
=========================
VS shields // Barriers - on insanity difficulty there is a mechanic in place that prevents damage carry over from shields//barriers to armor//health ... 
1 shield or barrier HP will stop a 13k damage widow shot (infiltrator) (an extreme case) before giving out (unless the right ammo powers are in use) ...This could mean up to 100% loss of damage on the shot that removes the shield //barrier ....
For weapons with high rof and low damage per shot - wasting one attack is not a significant loss in DPS .. Wasting thousants of HP Damage to remove a few shield // barrier  HP on the other hand ... And enemies also start regenerating Barriers & Shields if you take too much time between shots possibly causing more wasted damage ..
  

Modifié par peddroelmz, 26 mars 2012 - 11:58 .

[TheInvoker]

i just some assault rifles at the citadel ... i need high fire rate because i need more chance to make cryo (or incediary but not for damage) ammo to work (so more bullets,more chance....right?).
They are ok against shields and health but very weak against armor
Then i'm ok with the explanation above.,but.....
If i apply incendiary ammo the damage takes a monster buff,so that they are more effective on armor than shilds or health,why??
If i get 40-50% fire bonus damage,i get it against every kind of target!

[peddroelm]

TheInvoker wrote...


If i apply incendiary ammo the damage takes a monster buff,so that they are more effective on armor than shilds or health,why??
If i get 40-50% fire bonus damage,i get it against every kind of target!

Weapon damage will do the same damage vs all defense types ...
Ammo damage will provide extra damage applied before the weapon damage and only on the defence types it is advertized to work on ... 

To the point ...

Incendiary ammo does 0 (Zero) damage vs Shields & Barriers ..
Warp ammo does 0 damage vs Shields 
Disruptor ammo does 0 damage vs armor ...
AP ammo does 0 damage vs Shields & barriers ...

[TheInvoker]

i need numbers to understand
i'm watching your topic but i don't understand some things ad you speak only of the sniper rifles

so armor has that 50 issue about damage reduction.....what's the difference between shileds barries and health?

Modifié par TheInvoker, 26 mars 2012 - 12:18 .

[peddroelm]

TheInvoker wrote...

i need numbers to understand
i'm watching your topic but i don't understand some things ad you speak only of the sniper rifles

so armor has that 50 issue about damage reduction.....what's the difference between shileds barries and health?

The weapon damage formula is the same for all  weapons (sniper rifles were easier to test with  (single shot damage, accurate form range) ) ...

The diffrence between shields barries and health -> it has been hinted that powers use different modifiers vs them (I'll need to test that) (same for explosive combos) . Also ammo powers use diffrent modifiers vs shields, barries and health ... 

You should also check out this thread  if you like numbers 

http://social.biowar...7229/1#10563082 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 26 mars 2012 - 12:20 .

[TheInvoker]

so the difference is only for powers' bonus....ok but...
ncendiary ammo give the same damage bonus vs armor and vs health but i got a huge buff conly against armor

let's suppose a single bullet makes 20 damage,i will have 20 against health and shields and 5 against armor,right?
with incendiary ammo (bonus 30.5%) i should have 26.1 against health,still 20 against shields and.....what against armor? i doubt i will get more than 26.1 but in my try i had something like 100 (if against health was really 26)

ok thanks for the link

Modifié par TheInvoker, 26 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[peddroelm]

TheInvoker wrote...

so the difference is only for powers' bonus....ok but...
ncendiary ammo give the same damage bonus vs armor and vs health but i got a huge buff conly against armor

let's suppose a single bullet makes 20 damage,i will have 20 against health and shields and 5 against armor,right?
with incendiary ammo (bonus 30.5%) i should have 26.1 against health,still 20 against shields and.....what against armor? i doubt i will get more than 26.1 but in my try i had something like 100 (if against health was really 26)

TheInvoker wrote... 
let's suppose a single bullet makes 20 damage,i will have 20 against health and shields and 5 against armor,right? 

Inferno ammo has armor weakening effect 25% ... Meaning Effective DR will be 50 * (1 - 0.25) = 37.5 ... Which is still above 20 so your hypotetical bullet will do 5 damage (minimum damage) vs armor .. ..

Incendiary maxed ammo bonus vs armour is 30% if memory serves ... However, remember that damage from ammo powers is calculated and applied before weapon damage is applied ...So the bullet would still do the same damage ....

Also incendiary ammo at rank 6 has this evolution available : 


Explosive Burst : Ignites enemies with an intermittent explosion that covers 2.50 meters for 105.00 damage

(as with the damage from the inferno ammo itself those explosions (multiple per second when using a high rof weapon ) will do 0 extra damage vs shields & barriers but will apply their damage to armor and health )

Modifié par peddroelmz, 26 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[TheInvoker]

i have read here http://social.biowar...7229/1#10642855 that avenger does 38.6 base damage.let's use your formula:
let's suppose in my build i have 15% weapon bonus damage and incendiary ammo at level 6 (30.5%)
http://masseffect.wi...Incendiary_Ammo
38.6*1.15=44.39 damage with my weapon damage bonus
44.39*1.305=57.93 with incendiary ammo
57.93-50*(1-0.25)=20.43

is it right?

[peddroelm]

TheInvoker wrote...

i have read here http://social.biowar...7229/1#10642855 that avenger does 38.6 base damage.let's use your formula:
let's suppose in my build i have 15% weapon bonus damage and incendiary ammo at level 6 (30.5%)
http://masseffect.wi...Incendiary_Ammo
38.6*1.15=44.39 damage with my weapon damage bonus
44.39*1.305=57.93 with incendiary ammo
57.93-50*(1-0.25)=20.43

is it right?

38.6*1.15=44.39 damage with my weapon damage bonus  - correct
 
44.39*1.305=57.93 with incendiary ammo   WRONG is 
38.6 * 0.3 = 11.58 (ammo damage)  AND 38.6*1.15 (weapon damage)  And they are applied separately
=======
vs armor with 50 DR   the damage from the inferno ammo will apply fully ..
   and the weapon damage would barelly be above the weakened armor treshold 44.39 - (50 * (1 - 0.25)) = 6.89

Modifié par peddroelmz, 26 mars 2012 - 12:59 .

[TheInvoker]

i don't get fire damage bonus also in weapon damage bonus?? this is stupid....once my skill with weapons grant me more damage,fire damage bonus should be calculated from that

so you mean my total damage is 6.89+11.58?

[BlazeShepard]

Fortack wrote...

miltos33 wrote...

TheInvoker wrote...

so why should i carry more than 1 weapon if they have the same damage's bonus?? i thought there was one kind that was better against armor etc etc....

Because some weapons are better at close range, e.g. shotguns, while other weapons are better at long range, e.g. sniper rifles.

There are no range bonuses in ME3 as far as I can tell. Shotguns fire multiple projectiles per shot and some (shotguns) need to be fired at close range in order to have all projectiles hit the target for max damage.
Unfortunately, weapons are for the most part gimmicks in this game. There are, however, some that have nice synergy with certain ammo power effects, but in general it's "best" (most effective) to use a heavy pistol only (Carnifex or Paladin) and attach a scope - it hits hard at all ranges and has the accuracy of a sniper rifle.

I think you're right about the lack of range bonuses, especially where shotguns are concerned.  You can quasi-shotgun snipe like you could in ME1 if you add the choke mod for accuracy.  I've been able to OHK weaker enemies with some shotguns between 30-50 feet, something you could only do in ME2 with the Geth Plasma Shotgun (or the Eviscerator, with Adrenaline Rush or Tactical Cloak).