509 réponses à ce sujet

[Farbautisonn]

hornedfrog87 wrote...

You can use it as a framework for whatever your heart desires. You can substitute it as a grown artist and a person simply attending an art museum. It is still the same groundwork and idea. You are not validated in treating others terribly because you feel entitled to it; and in an embarrassing fashion I might add. 

-Well... since the "artist" has a tendency to "listen" and then do "nothing"  for the clients who allready paid for their "art", an outburst was inevitable.

[Rafficus III]

Farbautisonn wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...

You can use it as a framework for whatever your heart desires. You can substitute it as a grown artist and a person simply attending an art museum. It is still the same groundwork and idea. You are not validated in treating others terribly because you feel entitled to it; and in an embarrassing fashion I might add. 

-Well... since the "artist" has a tendency to "listen" and then do "nothing"  for the clients who allready paid for their "art", an outburst was inevitable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are they or are they not working on something that was requested of them by listening to their clients in order to appease them?

[MaximilianPS]

agree with Farbautisonn... they have a forum but obviously they didn't read no one listen and they can't blame us if we are so "frustrated"

[Farbautisonn]

hornedfrog87 wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are they or are they not working on something that was requested of them by listening to their clients in order to appease them?

-Consider yourself corrected then. You have only their word that they are working on something. And you have zero idea what Bioware "listented to" and what they disregarded. We have zero evidence of anything. Least of all something "requested" in order to "appease" us.

[Murphy Nox]

They did it to themselves, you don't ruin a great franchise without making a few enemies.

In Bioware's case, they have made a lot of enemies.

[abaris]

RukiaKuchki wrote...


You couldn't be more wrong! Of course they are labours of love! You are so cynical! How could they have done this for 10 years without passion? 

Uhm, money?

That's nothing despicable. It's just how the business world works.

[Midarc2nd]

I haven't attacked Bioware nor the people who make it up.
I've spent time making sure that my satisfaction with everything else, bar that last few minutes, is known.
I've made sure that when the opportunity presents itself to make my regard for Bioware and it's members is known to them and is seperate from the criticisms I have towards the ending.
I'm far from alone in behaving this way.

Bioware has never been one of those companies that seem to be afraid of dialogue with it's fans.
Sure, it may not respond all the time (who could? the amount that goes on here...) but it does pay attention.
Maintaining a dialogue comes with the knowledge you won't always be in agreement.
They know this.

Therefore, I dont think we should apologise to Bioware.
I'm pretty sure that the majority of us holding the line have no reason to either.
Also I'm fairly convinced that, for the most part, the folk at Bioware think the same.

Modifié par Midarc2nd, 27 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[78stonewobble]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-This.

Bioware doesnt employ children I believe. They are all adults and all adults have to own up to their work.

They should hire my nephew though. I thought his meatpopsicle idea was brilliant.

[Nicky 192]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Apologize? Nope never. As an individual I havent "attacked" bioware. However I have called into question the better judgement of several individuals of the company "bioware" . I do not see any reason to apologize.

they didnt apologize to me after DA2, The Bazaar bit, Deception or ME3 and they still refuse to. So why should I ? Im the guy who shelled out for ther crap, not the other way around?

 ^^^ This for me just about  sum's up my view.

Modifié par Nicky 192, 27 mars 2012 - 03:35 .

[LilyasAvalon]

78stonewobble wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

-This.

Bioware doesnt employ children I believe. They are all adults and all adults have to own up to their work.

They should hire my nephew though. I thought his meatpopsicle idea was brilliant.

Isn't that just a frozen corndog?

[Rafficus III]

Farbautisonn wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are they or are they not working on something that was requested of them by listening to their clients in order to appease them?

-Consider yourself corrected then. You have only their word that they are working on something. And you have zero idea what Bioware "listented to" and what they disregarded. We have zero evidence of anything. Least of all something "requested" in order to "appease" us.

There is no correction to the statement, as you cannot disprove what the company is or is not doing any more than I can prove at this time. I have read the press statements saying they are doing something that is to be revealed in April specifically to expand on the ending whereas your viewpoints are ruled by negative emotions and pesimism; something not considered as validated evidence. 

[abaris]

hornedfrog87 wrote...

There is no correction to the statement, as you cannot disprove what the company is or is not doing any more than I can prove at this time. I have read the press statements saying they are doing something that is to be revealed in April specifically to expand on the ending whereas your viewpoints are ruled by negative emotions and pesimism; something not considered as validated evidence. 

But all their statements so far have been pretty noncommital. The usual PR stuff.

And before you jump at my throat, that's to be expected, since they're probably still in the process of evaluating their options. It only goes to show that they follow corporate procedure just like any other given company.

That's all there is to it. The staff of Bioware aren't our buddies to invite over for some beers and watching a game. They represent a business and as such aren't free to speak their mind.

[Farbautisonn]

hornedfrog87 wrote...
There is no correction to the statement, as you cannot disprove what the company is or is not doing any more than I can prove at this time. I have read the press statements saying they are doing something that is to be revealed in April specifically to expand on the ending whereas your viewpoints are ruled by negative emotions and pesimism; something not considered as validated evidence. 

-Sure I can. Its frightfully easy too. I havent seen any evidence to the fact and neither have you. No evidence = No Proof. Its how things generally work in the world. Faith is for scripture and clergy.

Expanding on the endings? I didnt get that impression: What I got was this: 

(...)Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content
initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity
for those seeking further closure to their journey.

I dont see anything about an expansion to the endings. I see "initiatives" that will "help answer questions". And even that is merely hot air. Nothing has been delivered yet.

You might be inclined to take the announcements at face value. I however do not. Alot of "concerns" have been "listened to" by Bioware. From DA2, over the Bazaar debacle where Ray promised the international customers a boon, one we have yet to see (this was a year plus ago) , over the "Deception incident" where revisions were promised but more than one month later we have heard nothing. And now ME3 that was promised to be anything but "A b and C" endings became just that. Amongst other things promised. You'll forgive me if I do not take the words of anyone from Bioware at face value. Because the words mean zilch.

My viewpoint is ruled by empirical facts. I have seen nothing to prove any action on behalf of bioware. No screenshots, no official specifics, no demos, nothing. What I have from Bioware is half promises and hot air. That does not make for any kind of empirical evidence. However given historical evidence (the ones I listed above) I have plenty of reason to distrust Biowares word.

So... year. Corrected.

[Xarathox]

hornedfrog87 wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...

You can use it as a framework for whatever your heart desires. You can substitute it as a grown artist and a person simply attending an art museum. It is still the same groundwork and idea. You are not validated in treating others terribly because you feel entitled to it; and in an embarrassing fashion I might add. 

-Well... since the "artist" has a tendency to "listen" and then do "nothing"  for the clients who allready paid for their "art", an outburst was inevitable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are they or are they not working on something that was requested of them by listening to their clients in order to appease them?

That is up for debate. Since they can't or won't say exactly what it is they're working on.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Why the hell should anybody be forced to apologize? They're a corporate entity...not your friend! Why don't people seem to understand that...

In a way, saying that BioWare needs an apology is very comparable to making people apologize about the Hepler situation (treading on thin ice here but hear me out). A lot of people don't condone acting like a troll towards Hepler but still don't think she's a good writer (self included, and she didn't help herself with her response on Twitter, but that's another story). That's kind of similar to the way that acting like trolls on BSN won't help BioWare get back to making good games, but people who don't like the game/ending should be allowed to voice their opinions without being judged (I say game since ME3 was very much a bad RPG game, no matter how you want to put it).

Edit: Fixed grammar and just wanted to clarify that anybody who did mock Hepler is a despicable human being, she's still a horrible...HORRIBLE writer though.

Modifié par HighFlyingDwarf, 27 mars 2012 - 07:05 .

[JudgeOverdose]

BioWare's employees lied to us -- the game's ending did not take into account any of our choices as they had promised; the (pick a, b, or c) ending, in point of fact, was static for everyone. Put simply: if you don't want massive backlash, don't lie to your consumer.

I have nothing to apologize for.

$0.02

[byzantine horse]

I have said this hundreds of times before: I think that all emotions that reach the Internet are overblown and exaggerated. Percieved immunity and anonymity due to sitting at safe distance behind a screen does wonders to peoples' daring selves, with the effect that what you dare say to people you have never met, don't know and most likely never will is increased ten-fold. Most of that increase is made up of negativity.

You are dissatisfied with something? Great! Get angry! Get vocal! Demand what you feel that you are entitled to! But never insult the one you are trying to argue with. Never threaten the one you are agruing with. Never think yourself superior because of differing opinions, it's all relative to where you are standing and different people will think differently.

Whic is also why I think the whole "Retake" thing is ridiculous. You can push for your issues without creating a self-proclaimed "movement" (social activism much?) and thus more or less allowing hundreds of people beneath your "banner" to act like idiots because "they donated to charity". A charity which you then managed to ban your own "movement" from. I'd call that critical failure.

Except for raising money for a charity (which is not to be neglected in any shape or form mind you) the "movement" only succeeded in making gamers look like what most people envision that we are. The amount of stupid that has come up due to people thinking it a good idea to hide behind a charity is undeniable, it should never have been involved to begin with.

[Farbautisonn]

byzantine horse wrote...

I have said this hundreds of times before: I think that all emotions that reach the Internet are overblown and exaggerated. Percieved immunity and anonymity due to sitting at safe distance behind a screen does wonders to peoples' daring selves, with the effect that what you dare say to people you have never met, don't know and most likely never will is increased ten-fold. Most of that increase is made up of negativity.

-They brought it upon themselves. They didnt learn from DA2, the Bazaar incident or from the Deception debacle. If you wont listen you will reap the consequenses of your inaction.

You are dissatisfied with something? Great! Get angry! Get vocal! Demand what you feel that you are entitled to! But never insult the one you are trying to argue with. Never threaten the one you are agruing with. Never think yourself superior because of differing opinions, it's all relative to where you are standing and different people will think differently.

-The people who have employed "insults" and "threats" are a clear minority to those that tried to be nice about it. Even a clear minority to those that were snide about it.

Whic is also why I think the whole "Retake" thing is ridiculous. You can push for your issues without creating a self-proclaimed "movement" (social activism much?) and thus more or less allowing hundreds of people beneath your "banner" to act like idiots because "they donated to charity". A charity which you then managed to ban your own "movement" from. I'd call that critical failure.

-Call it what you want. The only way to get something done vs a cooperation is to get organized. A cooperation will not listen to one or two or even a thousand if the dissidence is scattered. If its organized however a thousand people speaking with (almost) the same voice can really make things happen. "Social activism" might be a bad word to you but its been the driving force behind society as we know it. From getting women the vote to being able to take legal action against businesses for malpractice. From Workers getting minimum wages and minimum protection from exploitation, to being able to keep politicians accountable for their actions.

The Charity bit was a stroke of genious. Politicans and cooperations have been using charity as a crowbar to raise their "social awareness" reputation for decades... even for centuries. And now that the common man uses it, its somehow apprehenseable? Really? That the charity in question felt that there was a conflict of interst is nice, but its something they should have considered before they accepted 80k. Now they look like fools too. Because apparently they can be pressured. That doesnt look good... let me tell you. Its going to effectively kill off alot of donations... donations they had better hope some other companies picks up. Besides... as I recall they have happily accepted the donations of companies in the name of other causes. Which again makes them look foolish if not hypocritical.

Except for raising money for a charity (which is not to be neglected in any shape or form mind you) the "movement" only succeeded in making gamers look like what most people envision that we are. The amount of stupid that has come up due to people thinking it a good idea to hide behind a charity is undeniable, it should never have been involved to begin with.

-Not really. Forbes and others have commented on the novelty and the ingenious way of getting attention to their cause. Its anything but stupid. "Hiding behind a charity"... Again. Most companies and Politicians do precisely the same and you hardly call them "stupid"... and what they do is precisely the same. Infact its likely worse as they on one had squeeze every single nickle out of their consumers, workers and electorate and then burn the cash to make themselves look better in the eyes of the public.

[Xarathox]

IReuven wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...

You can use it as a framework for whatever your heart desires. You can substitute it as a grown artist and a person simply attending an art museum. It is still the same groundwork and idea. You are not validated in treating others terribly because you feel entitled to it; and in an embarrassing fashion I might add. 

-Well... since the "artist" has a tendency to "listen" and then do "nothing"  for the clients who allready paid for their "art", an outburst was inevitable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are they or are they not working on something that was requested of them by listening to their clients in order to appease them?

That is up for debate. Since they can't or won't say exactly what it is they're working on.

So my guess is that if they are going to do endings-repair patch/dlc they are going to say it right away at beggining of April. If not they are going to go around and delay by talking about "closure" till May and they say "Nope! No endings. We hope you do not care anymore".

The likelyhood of what they are working on is the face importer glitch. That's probably the only "requested" item on their to-do list. Probably throw in some new MP maps as well.

[dsl08002]

if they provide us a new ending i would shout out in the middle of the Night " FINALLY, THANK YOU BIOWARE!"

Edit Only if it is a new ending of course and not a simple explanation to the original ending

Modifié par dsl08002, 27 mars 2012 - 07:56 .

[Gogzilla]

I am against personal attacks on their staff.

However we should not have to apologize for demanding better products.
The game is decent enough and i enjoyed MOST of it, but its very very clear that they cut corners all over the place.

-less dialog than in previous games, the dialog wheel got shafted so many times
-the ending to Mass effect deception was supposed to be resolved in the game
-Same CGI footage reused for the ending.
-reducing the game down to just one hub world
-General bugs throughout the game

Admittedly i feel this game is paced far better than ME2 and ME , but its also shorter than the previous games.

So no we should not apologize.

So far they are ones who have behaved inappropriately by not addressing the fan base's concerns on the matter.
So far they have deflected critisisim , and only accepted that fans are angry but not why.

Is that the way you treat your loyal fan base just because they are upset with your game.
They have treated us like an angry entitled child, told us to behave, not talk to us about anything we have issues over, tell us they are listening and then expect us to buy their DLC : I .

If Bioware believes they are above taking their fans seriously. They have really lost touch with what made them the popular developer they are.

EDIT: In all honesty i would prefer it if Bioware would exercise their "artistic integrity" just came out and said , "we will not change the ending, we made a decision and we stand by it".  I can repect that for sticking by their values whatever they might be.

But right now they are trying to have it both ways, lets appease the fans who buy CE's, DDE and Day 1 DLC , with more paid for DLC in April. But then lets also not take them seriously and talk about how unreasonable they are being trying to compromise our itegrity.
The Fans are in no position to comprimise it , that onus lies with Bioware and its staff.

They are more than willing to Monetise our emotional investment in the game for DLC content .
But how much do they really care about what that investment meant to the fan and what kind of pay of we deserved.;

Appretnly Displeasure followed by deal with it.

Modifié par Gogzilla, 27 mars 2012 - 09:26 .

[The Anti-Saint]

Zaasz wrote...

Not everyone is going to agree, but I personally found that the entirety of the game was well above average, beyond that actually. I agree that Mass Effect is our first true video game "epic" but I also think there could be some more closure as well. This article from GGTL is kinda long, but it sums up a lot of the criticisms and calls into question much of the unnecessary hate BioWare has been receiving.

http://www.gamersgui...efront-and.html

What do you all think? Was it really necessary to attack BioWare personally for something that isn't even THAT bad? Yeah, I think the endings could have answered a bit more and maybe we could have seen more from the war assets in the final battle, but overall I was intrigued by the end.

Never apologize for constructive criticism. Now, for those that had a mental meltdown and started slinging poop, yeah, they should apologize for letting their emotions get the better of them; not for the product, but for personal conduct.

[Tazzmission]

Embrosil wrote...

If you go to a restaurant, have a wonderful meal but the dessert makes you vomit, will you also apologize? I do not think so.

:sigh:


quit using that as an excuse because no sane person would go as far as to destroy a restaurant



a sane person would do the following


complain to manager, manager dosent listen, you go to corporate ( wich in this case is ea)



seriously grow up be a man and give the apology that is do

Modifié par Tazzmission, 27 mars 2012 - 08:14 .

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Tazzmission wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

If you go to a restaurant, have a wonderful meal but the dessert makes you vomit, will you also apologize? I do not think so.

:sigh:


quit using that as an excuse because no sane person would go as far as to destroy a restaurant



a sane person would do the following


complain to manager, manager dosent listen, you go to corporate ( wich in this case is ea)



seriously grow up be a man and give the apology that is do

Are you agreeing or disagreeing? I don't even understand your comment