509 réponses à ce sujet

[Bunzmaster]

win746 wrote...

Apologize to them? Why? Because we're criticizing on how unpolished and rushed the game was? The amount of bugs in the game? The "finale" which concludes all your choices chosen in the whole trilogy, but instead we get to choose 3 colors of the explosion? The quick Photoshop of Tali's portrait? The removed content which became a paid DLC? Ignore all these problems and don't care that I wasted $100 on such a promising game?

Uh-huh, right.

^^^^^^ EXACTLY!!

[Naughty Bear]

I recovered from the endings, i just replayed the ending and now i am back to annoyance, depression, confusion and anger.

[AntonioA9011]

Bunzmaster wrote...

win746 wrote...

Apologize to them? Why? Because we're criticizing on how unpolished and rushed the game was? The amount of bugs in the game? The "finale" which concludes all your choices chosen in the whole trilogy, but instead we get to choose 3 colors of the explosion? The quick Photoshop of Tali's portrait? The removed content which became a paid DLC? Ignore all these problems and don't care that I wasted $100 on such a promising game?

Uh-huh, right.

^^^^^^ EXACTLY!!

^^^^^^This

[Navasha]

I think there a few people that took things WAAAAAYYYY too far and an apology would be nice. Theres a difference between how you react to a given situation. When the waitress forgets to bring you a desert... or you didn't like the desert, an appropriate response would be to ask the waitress to correct the problem. If she can't or won't, then to speak with a manager.

Some people clearly leapt from the desert to the whole pushing the table on its side.... running around the restaurant screaming at the top of their lungs, turning red in the face, before finally collapsing to the floor threatening to hold their breath until they get their way approach.

Those people absolutely should feel guilty at their behavior.

Modifié par Navasha, 26 mars 2012 - 05:10 .

[AlanC9]

Il Divo wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

Random so did I. Story Mode and RPG mode were horrible with auto-dialogue, couldn't speak to quest givers, lack of mini-games, lack of exploration... there are so many problems with this game it's not funny

And here we have that old difference-of-opinion thing popping up. Two of the things Heather mentions here are things that I positively liked, and the others I was indifferent to.

Which just proves that fans have different opinions of things. If we didn't, what would be the point of a board like this?

Just taking a shot in the dark: is it the lack of minigames and exploration? Those were the things I didn't mind.

Now I think that minigames were a wash for me too. Amusing, but by definition inconsequential; wouldn't have minded if they came back, but don't miss them when they're gone. Exploration, yep, was something that I never wanted. What we're doing on the galaxy map in ME3 makes sense, which is something that wasn't true about the earlier games (ME2 made sense only if Cerberus has no other ships to do the mining, which just isn't the case.)

I don't think eavesdropping for quests is a great solution, but considering the typical Bio method for sidequest delivery -- talk to anyone you can interact with, since he's in the game for some reason - I didn't think it was that bad. (This goes back to BG, where you could tell who was involved in a sidequest because he had a name.)

Even autodialogue -- as opposed to not having neutral options, which is a separate issue -- has its good points. The conversations have a much more natural flow in ME3, and part of that is that some choices that don't actually choose anything have gone away. I was bothered by some of Shep's lines in the early game because he's being stupid, but more options wouldn't necessarily have made this any better. Oddly enough, that's where the worst of the lip-synch problems are too. 

[Stanley Woo]

This is a reminder that, regardless of what you think of Mass Effect 3 or BioWare, company bashing, disrespect towards any of our developers or staff, and insults are not permitted in our community. Like us or not, we can disagree with each other without resorting to childish behaviour. You are free to criticize and voice your opinions, but please do so constructively. Your freedom to express yourself in our forums should not be used as an excuse to hate, swear, or act like a jerkface.

That said, I appreciate all of your comments and you enthusiasm for the Mass Effect franchise. Thank you.

[DVZ]

"Should we apologise to Bioware?"

NO! HOLD THE LINE!

[Mallissin]

If this entire debacle was an engineered effort to create buzz at the expense of their fans, I don't think anyone should apologize to them.

They have made no effort to dialog with the community nor defend it's fans from the outrageous criticism of some very hurtful websites.

They've just spun things as much as they can to get more attention for their product, and I'm sorry but no ones going to buy a game that more than half the internet says has a horrible ending.

So, whoever thought up this gimmick needs their head examined.

Add on the fact they purposefully changed their forum rules to adjust things prior to launch, perhaps knowing this would happen, just points to how cruel the company has become.

Modifié par Mallissin, 26 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[Mx_CN3]

The people that were jerks should apologize.

The vast majority have no need to, as they did nothing wrong.

[-Area51-Silent]

I don't understand, its not that we are mad at Bioware, they had a vision they saw, others had a different one, and it clashed. Its like saying you can't be friends with people who have different view points. Like the ending or not, its the ending, and there is probably a purpose. Discussion on what you liked and disliked is cool, but really, is it necessary to get mad at the people doing their jobs? we don't know who specifically came up with the ending or what went into the decision, so blindly attacking people does nothing.

"Hold the line" is meaningless to them, we aren't protesting a crime against humanity here, its just an ending you didn't like, and thats ok if you didn't. Personally, I have issues with the end, and for that, I just won't pre-order anymore without looking at individual reviews like I do with most every other company.

[Ashilana]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Your freedom to express yourself in our forums should not be used as an excuse to hate, swear, or act like a jerkface.

I think the reason I will never find myself apologizing to Bioware (which is an odd way to phrase it, as if Bioware was a person and not a collection of people) is that I felt like the ending was someone, somewhere choosing to "act like a jerkface". 

If I had to point to one singular cause of this feeling, it was having to watch as my hero agrees to collaborate with an entity that talks about a "solution" in reference to genocide.  Then I was given the options of:

A) doing what the indoctrinated TIM wanted
wiping out free will or at least violating the rights of all organisms in the galaxy
C) genocide

And then, in the time since the game has been released it seems as if Bioware's PR statements phrase the situation as if they are the wronged party.

I understand that others may disagree with my interpretation of "act(ing) like a jerk face".

[ShinsFortress]

To original question: No.

I feel I was misled by Bioware and their terrible decision making is making me regret the many hours spent playing Mass Effect games.

Bioware/EA gets no more of my money until I get a damned decent apology.  Given the tone of Ray M's recent statement, I'm not counting on getting one.  *shrug*  There are other games by other developers or even other hobbies out there.

Modifié par ShinsFortress, 26 mars 2012 - 05:37 .

[Confused-Shepard]

This should be our reaction:
Christian Bale = Us
Other Guy = Bioware

They should be sorry for making me waste $60

[NedPepper]

Mallissin wrote...

If this entire debacle was an engineered effort to create buzz at the expense of their fans, I don't think anyone should apologize to them.

They have made no effort to dialog with the community nor defend it's fans from the outrageous criticism of some very hurtful websites.

They've just spun things as much as they can to get more attention for their product, and I'm sorry but no ones going to buy a game that more than half the internet says has a horrible ending.

So, whoever thought up this gimmick needs their head examined.

Add on the fact they purposefully changed their forum rules to adjust things prior to launch, perhaps knowing this would happen, just points to how cruel the company has become.

I think you're wrong on that.  I think the vicious attacks on Jenifer Hepler and the absolutely disresepctful complaining and fighting with the devs over Dragon Age 2 changed the rules on this forum.  Thing is...this place has turned toxic.  It's a group of Annie Wilkes weilding sledgehammers demanding changes and losing any sense of common decency.  It started with Dragon Age 2, and as I said six months ago, I KNEW this would happen again with ME 3.  Something is amiss with the fanbase.  I can't pretend to understand it, but it goes beyond simple issues with gameplay. 

[Vilegrim]

Zaasz wrote...

Not everyone is going to agree, but I personally found that the entirety of the game was well above average, beyond that actually. I agree that Mass Effect is our first true video game "epic" but I also think there could be some more closure as well. This article from GGTL is kinda long, but it sums up a lot of the criticisms and calls into question much of the unnecessary hate BioWare has been receiving.

http://www.gamersgui...efront-and.html

What do you all think? Was it really necessary to attack BioWare personally for something that isn't even THAT bad? Yeah, I think the endings could have answered a bit more and maybe we could have seen more from the war assets in the final battle, but overall I was intrigued by the end.

except this was the worst ending I have seen in any video game series, it was a lazy copy of Deus Ex from over a decade ago.

[Blackmind1]

L00p wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

This is a reminder that, regardless of what you think of Mass Effect 3 or BioWare, company bashing, disrespect towards any of our developers or staff, and insults are not permitted in our community. Like us or not, we can disagree with each other without resorting to childish behaviour. You are free to criticize and voice your opinions, but please do so constructively. Your freedom to express yourself in our forums should not be used as an excuse to hate, swear, or act like a jerkface.

That said, I appreciate all of your comments and you enthusiasm for the Mass Effect franchise. Thank you.

I have to say, Stanley, I like your way of ending posts this way instead of...certain other ways of ending them.

Though I have not commented on your ways of posting/ending threads before, that does not mean I haven't had thoughts of them bordering on condescending towards the community, even crossing that border at times. Just my opinion.

This time though, you come across as not condescending at all, only professional and respectful towards the customers of BioWare. It's very nice and refreshing to see. Thank you.

END OF LINE.

Modifié par Blackmind1, 26 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[Unschuld]

OP: Short answer, YES.

[batlin]

lol

no.

[Siven80]

I do think a lot of people have gone to far with the hate towards the "ending".

The game was good.......until the "ending" which made no sense and was a terrible decision that i just cant understand how the writing team would do that unless the were pushed or werent involved in the decision.

But apologize, i would say no one needs to apologize for disliking the "ending".

[crazyrabbits]

nedpepper wrote...

No, fans either got over it or they didn't.  King has a new Dark Tower book coming out that takes place between two of the others.  He's still working and people, once they realized they were overreacting, realized they still loved the Dark Tower series.

The whole reason why people got up in arms in the first place with the Dark Tower ending is because King was non-commital to ending the story with any sort of finality. He gave the reader this "stop reading if you don't want a lame ending" option (where he alerted the reader to stop before Roland entered the Tower) because he either wanted more sequels or couldn't think of a way to logically end the story. The whole thing finishes with the protagonist realizing that he has to go through the events of the entire saga, once again, but with an item that might help him stop the threat once and for all.

And yes, I've read all the DT books. Wizard and Glass (which was Book IV, but a prequel to the series) was trashed, if I recall correctly, at the time because it didn't advance the story arc in any way and only teased the parts of the story that the reader wanted to know about (that being the battles, which were shown in the comic book tie-in series). You could make the case that King has exploited the Dark Tower much more than normal.


Now, with a show like Lost, that was an ending that was (fairly) criticized by professional reviewers and a large section of the fanbase. Why? It worked in a thematic way (providing resolution to the main themes of the series), but it fell apart when subjected to any other sort of scrutiny. The plot was illogical and non-sensical, the whole "flash-sideways universe" turned out to be a giant red herring that had no bearing on the island, the villain's motivations made little sense - and, the most damning part of all, is that the story wasn't fully resolved until a DVD-exclusive epilogue was released on the Complete Series set - which meant that you had to pay more money to get more closure. Thank God Bioware hasn't done that (not yet, anyway).

nedpepper wrote...

And George Lucas is a prime example of what happens when you can't leave your artistic vision alone...except it's the reverse with Lucas.  The fans want him to stop.  Spielberg recently came out and said one of his biggest regrets was going back and messing with ET.  When the product is finished, for good or ill, it's finished.

And yet, there are still some fans who grew up with the SW Special Editions and consider them to be the "true product". There are some who saw the Hayden Christensen as Sebastian Shaw scene and accepted it. There are some who even accept that the SW saga is not Luke's story, but Anakin's fall and eventual redemption.

Point is that there can be a market for all these versions, without sacrificing artistic integrity. No one complained when Arthur Conan Doyle retconned Sherlock Holmes so that he didn't die in the "Reichenbach Falls" story. No one complained when Bethesda added the ability to play past Fallout 3's ending (which was justifiably criticized).

Point is, there's nothing wrong with giving the consumer more choice when it comes to their experience with a work. Fans are justifiably up in arms because the ME3 ending is a betrayal of everything that had been set up and foreshadowed over the course of the narrative, and when you combine that with a passionate fanbase that greatly respects this company's work, of course there's going to be a backlash. Hell, it's looking more and more likely that we'll get a post-ending epilogue via DLC if the "Terminator/The Truth" rumors are any indication.

nedpepper wrote...

The only question I'll raise when it comes to Bioware is the DLC.  With DLC, it's almost as if they want to serialize their stories. Which seemed to be the plan for Dragon Age 2 until this community sodomized it and Bioware nixed everything Dragon Age 2 related.  I'm not sure how DLC will work with Mass Effect 3 (perhaps adding "chapters" like retaking Omega that exist within the story, not after), but personally, I don't want any post ending DLC involving Shepard's fight with the Reapers.  Because in that case, THAT would be going against what they said they were going to do.  THAT would be nickel and diming the audience.

No, Bioware nixed more content for Dragon Age II because the sales were garbage. Seriously, it sold less than half the units as DA:O. By the time Mark of the Assassin was released, there was barely any player base left. For what it's worth, DAII was a good game, but it wasn't really a Bioware game.

And you think that post-ending DLC would be "nickel-and-diming"? After half the From Ashes content was already on the game disc and the final splash screen all but said there would be more DLC incoming? Take off your blinders.

[Kraykan82]

Just gonna throw my 2 cents in here with a short answer to your question, Yes I think you should.

[acrb101]

There's no reason to apologize to them for offering constructive criticisms. Even attacking the game doesn't merit an apology. Attacking specific people does though.

[NedPepper]

crazyrabbits wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

No, fans either got over it or they didn't.  King has a new Dark Tower book coming out that takes place between two of the others.  He's still working and people, once they realized they were overreacting, realized they still loved the Dark Tower series.

The whole reason why people got up in arms in the first place with the Dark Tower ending is because King was non-commital to ending the story with any sort of finality. He gave the reader this "stop reading if you don't want a lame ending" option (where he alerted the reader to stop before Roland entered the Tower) because he either wanted more sequels or couldn't think of a way to logically end the story. The whole thing finishes with the protagonist realizing that he has to go through the events of the entire saga, once again, but with an item that might help him stop the threat once and for all.

And yes, I've read all the DT books. Wizard and Glass (which was Book IV, but a prequel to the series) was trashed, if I recall correctly, at the time because it didn't advance the story arc in any way and only teased the parts of the story that the reader wanted to know about (that being the battles, which were shown in the comic book tie-in series). You could make the case that King has exploited the Dark Tower much more than normal.


Now, with a show like Lost, that was an ending that was (fairly) criticized by professional reviewers and a large section of the fanbase. Why? It worked in a thematic way (providing resolution to the main themes of the series), but it fell apart when subjected to any other sort of scrutiny. The plot was illogical and non-sensical, the whole "flash-sideways universe" turned out to be a giant red herring that had no bearing on the island, the villain's motivations made little sense - and, the most damning part of all, is that the story wasn't fully resolved until a DVD-exclusive epilogue was released on the Complete Series set - which meant that you had to pay more money to get more closure. Thank God Bioware hasn't done that (not yet, anyway).

nedpepper wrote...

And George Lucas is a prime example of what happens when you can't leave your artistic vision alone...except it's the reverse with Lucas.  The fans want him to stop.  Spielberg recently came out and said one of his biggest regrets was going back and messing with ET.  When the product is finished, for good or ill, it's finished.

And yet, there are still some fans who grew up with the SW Special Editions and consider them to be the "true product". There are some who saw the Hayden Christensen as Sebastian Shaw scene and accepted it. There are some who even accept that the SW saga is not Luke's story, but Anakin's fall and eventual redemption.

Point is that there can be a market for all these versions, without sacrificing artistic integrity. No one complained when Arthur Conan Doyle retconned Sherlock Holmes so that he didn't die in the "Reichenbach Falls" story. No one complained when Bethesda added the ability to play past Fallout 3's ending (which was justifiably criticized).

Point is, there's nothing wrong with giving the consumer more choice when it comes to their experience with a work. Fans are justifiably up in arms because the ME3 ending is a betrayal of everything that had been set up and foreshadowed over the course of the narrative, and when you combine that with a passionate fanbase that greatly respects this company's work, of course there's going to be a backlash. Hell, it's looking more and more likely that we'll get a post-ending epilogue via DLC if the "Terminator/The Truth" rumors are any indication.

nedpepper wrote...

The only question I'll raise when it comes to Bioware is the DLC.  With DLC, it's almost as if they want to serialize their stories. Which seemed to be the plan for Dragon Age 2 until this community sodomized it and Bioware nixed everything Dragon Age 2 related.  I'm not sure how DLC will work with Mass Effect 3 (perhaps adding "chapters" like retaking Omega that exist within the story, not after), but personally, I don't want any post ending DLC involving Shepard's fight with the Reapers.  Because in that case, THAT would be going against what they said they were going to do.  THAT would be nickel and diming the audience.

No, Bioware nixed more content for Dragon Age II because the sales were garbage. Seriously, it sold less than half the units as DA:O. By the time Mark of the Assassin was released, there was barely any player base left. For what it's worth, DAII was a good game, but it wasn't really a Bioware game.

And you think that post-ending DLC would be "nickel-and-diming"? After half the From Ashes content was already on the game disc and the final splash screen all but said there would be more DLC incoming? Take off your blinders.

Ah, dear.  First...I hate Day One DLC.  Let's just get out of the way.  There WAS ZERO REASON why From Ashes shouldn't have been in the finished game.  It's nickel and diming.  That was my point.

And your comments about Lost and The Dark Tower?  What are you saying?  My point was that whether people liked it or hated it, IT WILL NEVER BE CHANGED.  And I respect the artist for that.

There are a group of people, to this very day, who feel like Doyle should have stuck to his guns.  Post death Holmes was very different.  Holmes purists argue that Doyle lost the magic after readers forced to him bring the character back and the stories he told began to lessen in quality and subject matter.  (He added supernatural elements to the stories.)

I do, however, have an issue with charging people for a new ending.  What kind of precedent does this make?  (Besides killing any artistic integrity Bioware could claim to have.)  Yes, it was done in Fallout 3.  I never played Broken Steel.  I decided to let the original ending, however I felt about it, stand.  That, and a buddy I trust said Broken Steel wasn't all that great to begin with.

I'm not wearing blinders.  I refuse to join in on this mass hysteria.  And I am completely opposed to the idea of "Taking Back Mass Effect."  As a writer myself, I'll tell you one thing with upmost certainty.  Readers DO NOT DICTATE A STORY.  And writers who let them....are often times considered hacks.  The idea is to challenge a readership. Do you want your readers to be happy? Everyone does.  And it's disappointing when they're not.    But do you go against your vision? Lie to yourself?  Are video games an exception to the rule?  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?  I know how I feel about.  But, as I said before, if the mob demands a new ending, and Bioware is fine with giving it to them...well, I can live it.  I may not like it, but unlike most  people on this board, I'll let Bioware decide what to do with this hysteria.  And I also believe this....people still won't like the "new" ending.  I'd be willing to make a wager on it....