124 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkitekt]

Life is an accident waiting to happen.

Organics are accidents.

The struggle against Nihilism.

Organics vs Synthetics -> the Technological Singularity problem.

Cosmicism -> the truth is even darker than you can imagine.

Answer to Fermi's paradox in the most cruel way -> "everybody" were here, and they were culled.

Choice.

[kalle90]

If it's art, there needs to be a point other than profit.

If it's a consumerism product, the point is to get money.

[spacehamsterZH]

Since this has already been spoiled in this thread anyway, I'll go ahead and give you my interpretation. If you go basically straight from Sovereign on Virmire to the entire mass relay network being destroyed, it all makes a certain amount of sense. We can't truly free ourselves from the Reapers unless we also get rid of the mass relays, since they were put in place by the Reapers themselves. To truly be free, we have to start over. In a way it's a coming of age story on a galactic scale. Maybe that was the intention, and it's a nice idea.

The problem is the incredibly faulty plot logic - everything the "Starchild" says flies directly in the face of the whole idea that the mass relays were put in place by the Reapers so that civilization would develop the way they want it to. And plot logic or no, it comes completely out of nowhere and negates every idea that the audience has become emotionally attached to over roughly 100 hours of gameplay. If it had somehow at least been hinted at that wiping out the Reapers would also destroy the mass relays and if maybe Arrival hadn't planted the idea that doing so destroys entire solar systems, it could've worked. The Crucible could've been a sort of doomsday device that kills the Reapers via the relay network, but also leaves the relays crippled. For example. Instead, we got, well, what we got.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 26 mars 2012 - 05:35 .

[Naughty Bear]

To help relieve you of your burden carrying all that cash around.

EA ain't that bad.

[Resse]

sumoaltus wrote...

This thread is like asking, "...what's the point of sliced bread?"

It seems to me that you just fail to understand the question.

Every story I know has some message behind the writer wanted to communicate like friendship forever, don't give yourself up or other kind of stuff. There might be poorly written stories in which these messages are not communicated properly and therefore can't be seen that clearly, but every writer usually wants to make a point with his story.

After all 3 ME games I fail to see the point of the overall trilogy. I fail to see the message the writers of the story wanted to deliver and that is one of the reasons I hate that frakkin ending so much.

I never expected this story to end in complete sunshine. That would've been highly unrealistic and unbelievable after what we had seen in the beginning. But to turn me as the main character into the harbinger of doom for the entire universe, after I tried so hard to save as many as I could, was insulting.

[Vilegrim]

according to the ending: Diversity is evil and all that is different must die.

[Arkitekt]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Since this has already been spoiled in this thread anyway, I'll go ahead and give you my interpretation. If you go basically straight from Sovereign on Virmire to the entire mass relay network being destroyed, it all makes a certain amount of sense. We can't truly free ourselves from the Reapers unless we also get rid of the mass relays, since they were put in place by the Reapers themselves. To truly be free, we have to start over. In a way it's a coming of age story on a galactic scale. Maybe that was the intention, and it's a nice idea.

Of course it was an excellent idea.

Doesn't matter though, the internet husks got hold of every single detail of the ending and cried WTF DOODE? all over it without any second thought. It's all or nothing with this crowd really.

[Naughty Bear]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Since this has already been spoiled in this thread anyway, I'll go ahead and give you my interpretation. If you go basically straight from Sovereign on Virmire to the entire mass relay network being destroyed, it all makes a certain amount of sense. We can't truly free ourselves from the Reapers unless we also get rid of the mass relays, since they were put in place by the Reapers themselves. To truly be free, we have to start over. In a way it's a coming of age story on a galactic scale. Maybe that was the intention, and it's a nice idea.

The problem is the incredibly faulty plot logic - everything the "Starchild" says flies directly in the face of the whole idea that the mass relays were put in place by the Reapers so that civilization would develop the way they want it to. And plot logic or no, it comes completely out of nowhere and negates every idea that the audience has become emotionally attached to over roughly 100 hours of gameplay. If it had somehow at least been hinted at that wiping out the Reapers would also destroy the mass relays and if maybe Arrival hadn't planted the idea that doing so destroys entire solar systems, it could've worked. The Crucible could've been a sort of doomsday device that kills the Reapers via the relay network, but also leaves the relays crippled. For example. Instead, we got, well, what we got.

Well the Reapers still arrived without Mass Relays, so no, we will never be safe.

[Arkitekt]

Vilegrim wrote...

according to the ending: Diversity is evil and all that is different must die.

Actually it is the opposite. The problem as perceived by the Catalyst is the tech singularity, the coming of Synthetics that will eventually cull the entire galaxy of organics, destroying diversity itself.

There's one philosophical issue remaining to be solved, but I like to keep people in the dark...

[Naughty Bear]

Arkitekt wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

according to the ending: Diversity is evil and all that is different must die.

Actually it is the opposite. The problem as perceived by the Catalyst is the tech singularity, the coming of Synthetics that will eventually cull the entire galaxy of organics, destroying diversity itself.

There's one philosophical issue remaining to be solved, but I like to keep people in the dark...

Sexuality?

[Alex_SM]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Since this has already been spoiled in this thread anyway, I'll go ahead and give you my interpretation. If you go basically straight from Sovereign on Virmire to the entire mass relay network being destroyed, it all makes a certain amount of sense. We can't truly free ourselves from the Reapers unless we also get rid of the mass relays, since they were put in place by the Reapers themselves. To truly be free, we have to start over. In a way it's a coming of age story on a galactic scale. Maybe that was the intention, and it's a nice idea.

The issue is that we actually can free ourselves from them with the Mass Relays. We just need to "survive the Reapers", and continue evolving to the point that their technology gets even forgotten. 

Did Americans need to abandon English and forget every cultural background, anglo-saxon law, popular songs, etc... to be free from England? No, they didn't. 

The only thing needed to be free from the reapers is eliminate the threat. Nothing more, nothing less. 

[Ashilana]

Recently, I have started to suspect that someone thought synthesis was a good and fitting ending.

I couldn't conceive of how anyone could think this until I started a second play through and met the replacement for Mordin (if he died in ME2). Anyone who is familiar with the concept of social darwinism will be horrified by the philosophy he shares with Shep... though apparently we are supposed to think he is a swell guy. He would love synthesis.

[Vilegrim]

Arkitekt wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

according to the ending: Diversity is evil and all that is different must die.

Actually it is the opposite. The problem as perceived by the Catalyst is the tech singularity, the coming of Synthetics that will eventually cull the entire galaxy of organics, destroying diversity itself.

There's one philosophical issue remaining to be solved, but I like to keep people in the dark...

Except it isn't, or rather doesn't come across as that, it comes across as 'only low tech organic life that is no threat to the repears can be allowed to live...and you have to agree with us'

[spacehamsterZH]

Alex_SM wrote...
The issue is that we actually can free ourselves from them with the Mass Relays. We just need to "survive the Reapers", and continue evolving to the point that their technology gets even forgotten. 

Did Americans need to abandon English and forget every cultural background, anglo-saxon law, popular songs, etc... to be free from England? No, they didn't. 

The only thing needed to be free from the reapers is eliminate the threat. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Well, I didn't say we have to agree with the idea, OP asked for "meaning", so I gave a possible interpretation. Given that ME2 also let Shepard decide whether or not to destroy the Collector base (which is really the same moral dilemma in a lot of ways), and letting players make decisions like this is such an integral part of the ME universe, maybe it should've been left up to the player whether the mass relays are destroyed or not. Ultimately, that's what bothered me the most, that no matter what I do, the result is the same. I don't get the option of trying to solve the problem without blowing up the relays - and this isn't even clearly explained before you decide, it just kinda turns out that way.

[sumoaltus]

Resse wrote...

It seems to me that you just fail to understand the question.

Every story I know has some message behind the writer wanted to communicate like friendship forever, don't give yourself up or other kind of stuff. There might be poorly written stories in which these messages are not communicated properly and therefore can't be seen that clearly, but every writer usually wants to make a point with his story.

After all 3 ME games I fail to see the point of the overall trilogy. I fail to see the message the writers of the story wanted to deliver and that is one of the reasons I hate that frakkin ending so much.

I never expected this story to end in complete sunshine. That would've been highly unrealistic and unbelievable after what we had seen in the beginning. But to turn me as the main character into the harbinger of doom for the entire universe, after I tried so hard to save as many as I could, was insulting.

And there's your explanation...

[Lilarcor01]

After Shepard died in the Collector ship assault, sacrificing him/herself for Joker... killing him/her seems rather cliche. For me the whole point of ME 2 was embracing the miracle! Coming back from the dead to continue our fight against the Reapers. And that should be the theme for the whole series, achiving miracle and succes against impossible odds.

[What a Succulent Ass]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Hence, the biggest problem with the endings. It's like "lol, what trilogy?"

That's a huge problem with the series, always has been. There are a few overarching themes, but they aren't always reiterated throughout each instalment (or they are directly contradicted). The one message that has stayed constant throughout ME1 and 2 was that the actions of one person can shape the course of history, and the right ones will allow one to overcome overwhelming odds. Then ME3 happened, and everyone is confused.

[Arkitekt]

Vilegrim wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

according to the ending: Diversity is evil and all that is different must die.

Actually it is the opposite. The problem as perceived by the Catalyst is the tech singularity, the coming of Synthetics that will eventually cull the entire galaxy of organics, destroying diversity itself.

There's one philosophical issue remaining to be solved, but I like to keep people in the dark...

Except it isn't, or rather doesn't come across as that, it comes across as 'only low tech organic life that is no threat to the repears can be allowed to live...and you have to agree with us'

"It comes across"? That's kinda non-debatable, innit? What you are basically saying is that *you* understood it like that. I didn't and I couldn't, since that was not the point the Catalyst was making at all.

The threat was not against the Reapers, but against organics themselves, and yes by extension to the reapers. He is also not saying that all civilized organics are not allowed to live. He says that those civililzations are to be kept in Reaper form, and its former "form" (i.e. organic civilization) to be destroyed. Those still in the dark have their chance to live, develop and eventually ascend to reaper form in the next cycle.

[Arkitekt]

This whole lore stuff kinda reminds me of Arthur C Clarke's Childhood's End. Most people won't even understand this reference...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Resse wrote...
I mean ME 1 and 2 showed me that the universe in these 2 games is in a pretty dark situation and if the reapers come every advanced race could or would be destroyed. But it also gave me hope no matter how desperate the situation was, I could get through it if did the right thing.

Here comes ME 3 along and in the end tells me that no matter what I do it's useless. My decisions didn't influence anything, this cycle ends and all of the advanced races even future civilisation would be screwed, because of what I had to do.

I have to say, that this is pretty dark and I would even consider this torture, because you needed 3 games to tell me that after I got really attached to my Sheppard and his/her companions??

Oh gawd... torture?

Your decisions didn't influence anything? Raced doomed?  ... what a drama queen.

First of all, the races arne't doomed. Mass relays are gone. So what? It's a new begining for the galaxy.
Secondly, you choices do influence things - the future of entire races. Jsut because the relays are gone, doesn't mean that the races won't have to coninue to live (or not) with your choices.. Krogan, Quarians, Geth, Salarians, Turians - the effects of your decisions ARE big.

You becoming attached to Shep is irrelevant really. Not wanting to see a beloved character die is understandable, saying it's bad writing for that character to die is just BS.


I'm afraid you aren't making any real point with your post.

[Lancelot Albion]

That the real space jesus was Legion he died for our sins.

[nikki191]

regardless of what bioware decided the point i took away from mass effect is that for 3 games i was creating my shepards personal journey and in the end its biowares story not mine, its not my shepard.

shepard could of saved millions more by instead of fighting just organising an armada and heading off into deep space

[tetrisblock4x1]

In ME1 you make the reaper invasions nonviable by sabotaging the citadel. At least that's what the catalyst said. So basically the people calling all of ME1 pointless are butthurt that ME3 didn't end the way they wanted it to end. I'd say ending the reaping cycles is a good pay off. As for the three colors, they all have lots of implications but until bioware explains them in detail through DLC or books I have no opinion on them.

[Resse]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Oh gawd... torture?

Your decisions didn't influence anything? Raced doomed?  ... what a drama queen.

First of all, the races arne't doomed. Mass relays are gone. So what? It's a new begining for the galaxy.
Secondly, you choices do influence things - the future of entire races. Jsut because the relays are gone, doesn't mean that the races won't have to coninue to live (or not) with your choices.. Krogan, Quarians, Geth, Salarians, Turians - the effects of your decisions ARE big.

You becoming attached to Shep is irrelevant really. Not wanting to see a beloved character die is understandable, saying it's bad writing for that character to die is just BS.


I'm afraid you aren't making any real point with your post.

It seems to me, that you haven't been watching the game and ending closely.

i wont start to debate the ending here neither will I debate the situation in which we left the universe. Let's just say, that I'm not a drama queen. In my opinion the situation of the universe is as bad as I describe it at the end of the game?

And for me if I look into the decisions I made in all of the 3 games that meant nothing in the end feels like torture to me. You can't imagine p****** I still am. And let me tell one more thing. Im never going to forget this...

[Daniel_N7]

What was the point of the ME trilogy? As it stands it looks like it was all a big essay on "Frustration».

But this is "the question", isn't it? Everyone expected some sort of "pyrrhic victory". A great sense of loss, maybe even the hero's death. But the resolution feels like an ultimate failure. Shepard actually is "forced" to choose a resolution that is a blatant betrayal of all he/she's been fighting for, a betrayal of alliances made in the past, a betrayal of the fundamental motivations of its character. And then, as the cherry on top of the cake, you get to witness your closest friends... Well, I'm forgetting this is a no spoilers zone, so I'll stop here.

Look, I'm 38 years old. My sci-fi culture didn't begin with The Matrix. I saw 2001, and read Arthur C. Clarke's books as well. I've read Isaac Asimov, Phillip K. Dick, Stanisław Lem... I saw Solaris by Andrei Tarkovsky. And more recently the Soderbergh version. I grew up watching Blade Runner, Alien, Star Wars; reading classic sci-fi comics, most notably by French authors, like Moebius, Pierre Christin / Jean-Claude Mézières; seeing popular tv series like Star Trek, Galactica, Buck Rogers...

And I know, from reading these forums, that many fans of these series are adult, well spoken, articulate people. And we have in common this... strange, surprising passion, for this little video game series that captured our hearts.

Honestly, I don't understand what happened. In my view, BioWare decided do dynamite the expectations of its audience. For what? Well, unless there is an explanation, hidden somewhere, that will reveal to us all the brilliancy of the game's ending, all we have here is one of the most tragic storytelling failures in sci-fi history.