240 réponses à ce sujet

[Admiral H. Cain]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Metal? Where do you get "metal" from unknown material? How do you know that it is not more than just "metal"? How do you know that the material it is made of doesn't help it's functionality?

Quit stealing my lines, I was about to say that! 

[Trikormadenadon]

1490 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

MJF JD wrote...

the communications systems rely upon the mass relays.

Source?

It was in the ME 1 codex. I don't know what heading it was under, but it was explained during the game that the comm buoys use the mass relays to send their signals long distance.  Otherwise, communication can't be instant: it will take as long as FTL travel does.

It's under secondary/communications

"Real time communication is possible thanks to networks of expensive mass relay comm buoys that can daisy-chain a transmission via lasers.

Comm buoys are maintained in patterns built outward from each mass relay. The buoys are little more than a cluster of primitive, miniature MASS RELAYS (was not in caps in the codex, I just capped it for evidence sake). Each individual buoy is connected to a partner on another buoy network, forming a corridor of low-mass space. Tightbeam communications lasers are piped through these 'tubes' of FTL space, allowing virtually instantaneous communication to anywhere on the network. The networks connect ACROSS REGIONS BY COMMUNICATIONS LASERS THROUGH THE MASS RELAYS (again, it was not capped in the codex).

With this system, the only communications delay is the light lag between the source or destination and the closest buoy. So long as all parties remain within half a light-second (150 000 km) of buoys, seamless real time communications are possible. Since buoys are maintained in all travelled areas, most enjoy unlimited instant communication.  Ships only suffer communications lag when operating off established deep space routes, around uninhabited outer system gas giants, and other unsettled areas.

during wartime, comm buoy networks are the first target of attack. Once the network is severed, it can take anywhere from weeks to years to get a message out of a contested system. In systems where a buoy network has not yet been buolt or has been destropyed, rapid communication means ferrying information through high-speed courier ships and unmanned data drones."

This shows that while they likely could make new mass relays eventually, there would effectively be no communication between star systems.  Take it one step further and it is likely no single star system would be capable of making a mass relay on it's own due to likely case of lack of all necessary resources being in a single system, so yeah, the galaxy is F'd.

[Admiral H. Cain]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

You aren't seriously comparing the conduit to comm buoys, are you?

I was thinking the same thing.

Why not? Don't see much difference. Educate me...

You don't see a difference between an object that can launch extremely heavy objects thousands of lightyears in seconds and an object that sends communication lasers a maximum of 150,000 km? 

Source on that last part?

Codex. 

http://masseffect.wi...odex/Technology 

Modifié par Admiral H. Cain, 26 mars 2012 - 01:22 .

[SpiderFan1217]

count_4 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

count_4 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
Ten years and the ME universe is back up and running. 

Just a sidenote. You should refer to it as the galaxy, not the universe. When you talk about the Mass Effect universe, a lot of people probably think you mean the franchise/IP (I know I did...).

As for the rest: All scientists trapped in one place, scarce resources and no way to get them where they're needed. No way to get the relays where they are needed once they are built. 

Sorry, but not happening. At least not within a century (let alone a decade).

Most or your arguments have already been explained away.

Considering the fact that I brought up just three (albeit profound) arguments, 'most' isn't really a lot. 
Don't really have the time to read all the pages in the thread but I can't imagine a proper explanation for gathering even remotely enough resources and transport them to places all over the galaxy to build the relays.

Just because I can't explian them doesn't mean they can't be explained.

On a side note, never in all my years has a winky face ever rubbed me the way that one did. It really p*ssed me off for some reason.    I'm good though. I'm good. 

[Slayer299]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
The line of dialogue is from Liara's Father. Also, use a different metal. Don't see why they have to be the exact same design as the original relays.

Yes it is, its what got the 'blue laughed off her ass'. THe problem with Aethyta's comment is that that was *before* they lost the working Prothean VI on Thessia. What are they going to do for a blueprint to create a MR now? The majority of the galaxy's scientists were working on the Crucible and anyone else would be trapped on whatever planet they're on and with whatever minimal resources are available to them.

Besides, even *if* they could rebuild a pair of MR's, tow the other one to the other side of the galaxy somehow, where are you going to get all the eezo for each Relay since instant travel is non-existant and most of the eezo mining facilities are not going to be working anymore.

[Shaoken]

For building the Mass Relays, the Prothean's managed to do it with the one on Illos and the monument in the citadel. If they had any sense, they might have left a copy of the blueprints on the Mars Archive (assuming the Reaper's didn't destroy it for good). So you build it, then use Quantuam Entanglment particles to send the plans to other races and work on the calibrations. Send a few unmaned probes to test it out and fine tune it, and bam! Incredibly simple Mass Relays that can only shoot small ships great distances, but that'd be enough to send people home and deliver food and supplies. Then you work on larger scale Mass Relays.

[SpiderFan1217]

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Codex. 

http://masseffect.wi...odex/Technology 

  Nice. You almost got me. Change of plans. We build a lot of Conduits to aid in the communication, so we can build new realys. Mwhahahaahaah!! 

[FatalX7.0]

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
The line of dialogue is from Liara's Father. Also, use a different metal. Don't see why they have to be the exact same design as the original relays.

Yes it is, its what got the 'blue laughed off her ass'. THe problem with Aethyta's comment is that that was *before* they lost the working Prothean VI on Thessia. What are they going to do for a blueprint to create a MR now? The majority of the galaxy's scientists were working on the Crucible and anyone else would be trapped on whatever planet they're on and with whatever minimal resources are available to them.

Besides, even *if* they could rebuild a pair of MR's, tow the other one to the other side of the galaxy somehow, where are you going to get all the eezo for each Relay since instant travel is non-existant and most of the eezo mining facilities are not going to be working anymore.

Okay, now I know what the dialogue is.

She never even said anything about knowing how to build a relay. All she said was that they should try to build more relays.

[NikitaDarkstar]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Based on what?

They're destroyed.

You really think that they don't have records of the Relays?

You have proof that they do?

And this line from Mass Effect 2? Be nice if you could quote it instead of simply say, "Line of dialogue says otherwise".

Mass relays are built with two long, curved metal "arms" with a set
of revolving rings in between them, containing a massive, blue-glowing element zero core. The relays are made of an unknown but incredibly resilient material, the same material that the Citadel
is built from. One of the relays even survived a supernova's wake
without being damaged. They are "cold" objects that don't emit heat or
radiation, unlike starships, making them difficult to find if their
position changes. Some relays, like the Charon Relay, are "gravitationally anchored" to planets; others appear to be out in space and are carefully tracked.


Mass relays function by creating a virtually mass-free "corridor" of
space-time between each other. This can propel a starship across
enormous distances that would take centuries to traverse, even at FTL
speeds. Before a vessel can travel, the relay must be given the amount
of mass to transit by the ship's pilot before it is moved into the
approach corridor. When a relay is activated, it aligns itself with the
corresponding relay before propelling the ship across space.

The line of dialogue is from Liara's Father. Also, use a different metal. Don't see why they have to be the exact same design as the original relays.

Right. That assumes you know enough about how the relays work to alter their design and can afford to lose a few in initial testing until you get everything right. It's hard enough to reverse engineer somehing you have had some experience with, it's a whole different ball-game to change it's design. (And lets be honest here, if it was possible to build them out of more common materials even the reapers would have done even if just because of simple logistics.)

[Wikkr]

problem is the mass relays are linked. so you need to get the resources to build one on both ends. i dont see the krogan being able to put one together... or the remnants of the batarians. Quarians/geth might manage it especially if still working together. Asari and taurians are gonna be rebuilding their ravaged homeworlds for a lot longer then 10 years. Earths only hope is if the combined fleets can work together long enough to put one together. Of course its never stated where the crucible was built but id assume the galaxy's brightest scientific minds would have stayed behind there in relative safety or to try again if first crucible failed.

All in all i doubt theyd make it in 10 years... maybe 50-100

[archvonbaron]

She said the Asari should try and build a Mass Relay and the other Matriarchs response is why she left Thessia and went to Illium. But the reason she is there is to spy on Liara which makes some of what she says in that conversation suspect at best.

[FatalX7.0]

Shaoken wrote...

For building the Mass Relays, the Prothean's managed to do it with the one on Illos and the monument in the citadel. If they had any sense, they might have left a copy of the blueprints on the Mars Archive (assuming the Reaper's didn't destroy it for good). So you build it, then use Quantuam Entanglment particles to send the plans to other races and work on the calibrations. Send a few unmaned probes to test it out and fine tune it, and bam! Incredibly simple Mass Relays that can only shoot small ships great distances, but that'd be enough to send people home and deliver food and supplies. Then you work on larger scale Mass Relays.

But the Protheans were also far more advanced than our cycle, and that relay wasn't nearly as large as a full relay.

And they didn't even get it up into space.


It was also a prototype that wasn't even connected to the rest of the network.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 26 mars 2012 - 01:28 .

[SpiderFan1217]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
The line of dialogue is from Liara's Father. Also, use a different metal. Don't see why they have to be the exact same design as the original relays.

Yes it is, its what got the 'blue laughed off her ass'. THe problem with Aethyta's comment is that that was *before* they lost the working Prothean VI on Thessia. What are they going to do for a blueprint to create a MR now? The majority of the galaxy's scientists were working on the Crucible and anyone else would be trapped on whatever planet they're on and with whatever minimal resources are available to them.

Besides, even *if* they could rebuild a pair of MR's, tow the other one to the other side of the galaxy somehow, where are you going to get all the eezo for each Relay since instant travel is non-existant and most of the eezo mining facilities are not going to be working anymore.

Okay, now I know what the dialogue is.

She never even said anything about knowing how to build a relay. All she said was that they should try to build more relays.

At a point, an Asari Matriarch, with hundreds of years of experience, thought it was feasable to make their own relays. That's enough for me. I understand if it is not enough for you.

[FatalX7.0]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
The line of dialogue is from Liara's Father. Also, use a different metal. Don't see why they have to be the exact same design as the original relays.

Yes it is, its what got the 'blue laughed off her ass'. THe problem with Aethyta's comment is that that was *before* they lost the working Prothean VI on Thessia. What are they going to do for a blueprint to create a MR now? The majority of the galaxy's scientists were working on the Crucible and anyone else would be trapped on whatever planet they're on and with whatever minimal resources are available to them.

Besides, even *if* they could rebuild a pair of MR's, tow the other one to the other side of the galaxy somehow, where are you going to get all the eezo for each Relay since instant travel is non-existant and most of the eezo mining facilities are not going to be working anymore.

Okay, now I know what the dialogue is.

She never even said anything about knowing how to build a relay. All she said was that they should try to build more relays.

At a point, an Asari Matriarch, with hundreds of years of experience, thought it was feasable to make their own relays. That's enough for me. I understand if it is not enough for you.

And it doesn't make you scratch your head that other higher up Asari and Matriarchs thought it was ridiculous?

And that "experience" can be anything.

Could be hundreds of years of bartending.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 26 mars 2012 - 01:30 .

[nevar00]

As others have said, Comm Buoys are out of the question and I'm not sure they could communicate from distances too far anyway. Now let's explain why the relays will not be up and running ever, nevermind 10 years...

1. Every scientist is dead or stranded in who knows where. There's no way for long distance communication.
2. Good luck getting the needed supplies and equipment; ships aren't traveling far at all anymore.
3. The Protheans were just figuring out Mass Relays when the were hit, and they were a lot more advanced than this cycle.
4. Every place is basically destroyed so you won't be getting help or rare supplies from there, and they won't be getting up and running anytime soon as their won't be any aid they need. Hell nobody else even knows the Reapers are gone which means lots of looting and murder for everyone on those colonies, while places like Omega starve to death anyway! And then there's about to be a huge battle for Earth while the Quarians and Turians slowly starve.
5. If you choose 'Destroy' at least, all advanced technology is shut down as well. Even better!
6. 10,000 years into the future and Shepard is little more than a legend, while space travel isn't possible. Dark Ages, hooray!
7. Even if you do build two mass relays side by side, good luck getting one into another galaxy.  Intergalactic space travel is now impossible.

They've nuked the franchise. I really, really have no idea why.

Modifié par nevar00, 26 mars 2012 - 01:32 .

[ImmovableMover]

It has probably been said before but, The StarGazing scene proves it wrong, and just...well...maths.

In 10 years time The Quarians wouldn't even be half way home to rannoch let alone have built hyper-advanced technology that they've not been able to replicate before...Especially not at the end of a giant-resource-crippling war that has stranded them in a solar system with the LEAST advanced technology.

[Slayer299]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Codex. 

http://masseffect.wi...odex/Technology 

  Nice. You almost got me. Change of plans. We build a lot of Conduits to aid in the communication, so we can build new realys. Mwhahahaahaah!! 

There are a few problems with your "solution";

1. Conduit is a mini, one-way only, MR. so you'd have to build two per system to have anything go and return.
2. Since the conduit is smaller so should the level of mass it can transport, i.e. - nothing larger than a Mako. 
3. The large amounts of eezo, where are you getting it from? The mines are abandoned/destroyed and Thessia is not an option.
4. You're assuming that the conduit is somehow a cheaper, easier fix for replacing the MR's.

[blah64]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

the epilogue prooves otherwise, in my eyes. Thats why I hated it so much, it showed that people had long forgotten other species and planets. The ending would've hurt a tiny bit less without it

I didn't see how it show'd that? I guess it could be infered, but I always just assumed the boy had never been off-world.

They devolved intelletually to such a degree that Commander Shepard had become "The Shepard." We barley left our own planet in 2012 and we have better record keeping skill than these guys. Face it, the galaxy was wiped clean. Back to square one.

[CaptainZaysh]

Evil_medved wrote...

Nobody left to rebuild ****, everybody died in relays explosions.

Arrival proves it, nothing disproves this.

Wrong!  Arrival proves that destroying a mass relay by smashing into it with an asteroid causes a supernova scale explosion.  That's all.

Nothing proves that command detonating a relay from the network control unit would result in the same explosion.

And the thing that actively disproves your theory is that in one of the endings, Shepard is breathing afterwards.

So, you're quite wrong.

[sth128]

You can't rebuild the relay network unless you reach the technological level of the Reapers. You can't reach the technological level of the Reapers even under the best circumstances where communications are running and resources can freely traverse the galaxy.

Saying that "they'll be up and running in 10 years" is like saying "Chernobyl will be back to its original glory in 10 years".

No possible way.

And build the relay with "other material"? What are you going to suggest next? Build star ships out of mud and straw? The purpose of the relays NECESSITATES the type of material. Relays are akin to bridges. If you don't want them to collapse, you build them out of steel. Building them out of paper mache isn't going to last too long.

[SpiderFan1217]

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Codex. 

http://masseffect.wi...odex/Technology 

  Nice. You almost got me. Change of plans. We build a lot of Conduits to aid in the communication, so we can build new realys. Mwhahahaahaah!! 

There are a few problems with your "solution";

1. Conduit is a mini, one-way only, MR. so you'd have to build two per system to have anything go and return.
2. Since the conduit is smaller so should the level of mass it can transport, i.e. - nothing larger than a Mako. 
3. The large amounts of eezo, where are you getting it from? The mines are abandoned/destroyed and Thessia is not an option.
4. You're assuming that the conduit is somehow a cheaper, easier fix for replacing the MR's.

Didn't Soveriegn use the conduit to get to the Citidel?
Lots of dead Reapers with plenty of eezo to donate.
Why would it not be cheaper? It's a knock-off of the real things.

[Slayer299]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
The line of dialogue is from Liara's Father. Also, use a different metal. Don't see why they have to be the exact same design as the original relays.

Yes it is, its what got the 'blue laughed off her ass'. THe problem with Aethyta's comment is that that was *before* they lost the working Prothean VI on Thessia. What are they going to do for a blueprint to create a MR now? The majority of the galaxy's scientists were working on the Crucible and anyone else would be trapped on whatever planet they're on and with whatever minimal resources are available to them.

Besides, even *if* they could rebuild a pair of MR's, tow the other one to the other side of the galaxy somehow, where are you going to get all the eezo for each Relay since instant travel is non-existant and most of the eezo mining facilities are not going to be working anymore.

Okay, now I know what the dialogue is.

She never even said anything about knowing how to build a relay. All she said was that they should try to build more relays.

At a point, an Asari Matriarch, with hundreds of years of experience, thought it was feasable to make their own relays. That's enough for me. I understand if it is not enough for you.

Feasibe does not equal easily done/understood, the same goes for her being a Matriarch. Was Aethyta a scientist for the last 700-800 years working with MR tech, no.

[Mcjon01]

Sovereign didn't use the conduit, it was Saren and a small force of Geth. Sovereign approached the Citadel through the normal relay system, at the head of the Geth fleet.

[SpiderFan1217]

It's cool guys. You don't think it's feesable. I can live with that. Maybe they're gonna go the Star Wars route and just have the major stories take place a thousand years apart.

[SpiderFan1217]

Mcjon01 wrote...

Sovereign didn't use the conduit, it was Saren and a small force of Geth. Sovereign approached the Citadel through the normal relay system, at the head of the Geth fleet.

Source?