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I say... ten years, tops.


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#151
count_4

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SpiderFan1217 wrote...

count_4 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

count_4 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
Ten years and the ME universe is back up and running. 

Just a sidenote. You should refer to it as the galaxy, not the universe. When you talk about the Mass Effect universe, a lot of people probably think you mean the franchise/IP (I know I did...).

As for the rest: All scientists trapped in one place, scarce resources and no way to get them where they're needed. No way to get the relays where they are needed once they are built. 

Sorry, but not happening. At least not within a century (let alone a decade).



Most or your arguments have already been explained away.


Considering the fact that I brought up just three (albeit profound) arguments, 'most' isn't really a lot. ;)
Don't really have the time to read all the pages in the thread but I can't imagine a proper explanation for gathering even remotely enough resources and transport them to places all over the galaxy to build the relays.

On a side note, never in all my years has a winky face ever rubbed me the way that one did. It really p*ssed me off for some reason.  Posted Image  I'm good though. I'm good.  Posted Image

No hard feelings. ;)

Just kidding. Sorry if it offended you. It is sometimes a tricky smiley when it comes to meaning.

Modifié par count_4, 26 mars 2012 - 01:43 .


#152
Admiral H. Cain

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SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Codex. 

http://masseffect.wi...odex/Technology 


Posted Image  Nice. You almost got me. Change of plans. We build a lot of Conduits to aid in the communication, so we can build new realys. Mwhahahaahaah!!  Posted Image


There are a few problems with your "solution";

1. Conduit is a mini, one-way only, MR. so you'd have to build two per system to have anything go and return.
2. Since the conduit is smaller so should the level of mass it can transport, i.e. - nothing larger than a Mako. 
3. The large amounts of eezo, where are you getting it from? The mines are abandoned/destroyed and Thessia is not an option.
4. You're assuming that the conduit is somehow a cheaper, easier fix for replacing the MR's.


Didn't Soveriegn use the conduit to get to the Citidel?
Lots of dead Reapers with plenty of eezo to donate.
Why would it not be cheaper? It's a knock-off of the real things.


I thought the Reaper power cores used some type of dark energy?

#153
Mcjon01

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SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Sovereign didn't use the conduit, it was Saren and a small force of Geth. Sovereign approached the Citadel through the normal relay system, at the head of the Geth fleet.


Source?


The end of Mass Effect, and eyes. Did you not watch any of the cinematics?

#154
FatalX7.0

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CaptainZaysh wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

Nobody left to rebuild ****, everybody died in relays explosions.

Arrival proves it, nothing disproves this.


Wrong!  Arrival proves that destroying a mass relay by smashing into it with an asteroid causes a supernova scale explosion.  That's all.

Nothing proves that command detonating a relay from the network control unit would result in the same explosion.

And the thing that actively disproves your theory is that in one of the endings, Shepard is breathing afterwards.

So, you're quite wrong.


No, Arrival proved that a large enough object can physically break the material that the relay is made of.

Prior to the events of Arrival, however, Dr. Amanda Kenson
and her research team calculated that if a large enough mass impacts a
relay with enough force, the relay should not be able to withstand it.



The consequences of destroying a mass relay are immense: as a huge mass
effect engine manipulating massive quantities of energy, a relay could
produce an explosion of supernova proportions.


@first bold

Simply means that a Relay can physically break if a large enough object hits it.



@second bold

Should
be obvious. It's Eezo core, it's Mass Effect engine is massive, when
that energy is released, in any manner, boom, whole system dead.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 26 mars 2012 - 01:47 .


#155
Slayer299

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SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Codex. 

http://masseffect.wi...odex/Technology 


Posted Image  Nice. You almost got me. Change of plans. We build a lot of Conduits to aid in the communication, so we can build new realys. Mwhahahaahaah!!  Posted Image


There are a few problems with your "solution";

1. Conduit is a mini, one-way only, MR. so you'd have to build two per system to have anything go and return.
2. Since the conduit is smaller so should the level of mass it can transport, i.e. - nothing larger than a Mako. 
3. The large amounts of eezo, where are you getting it from? The mines are abandoned/destroyed and Thessia is not an option.
4. You're assuming that the conduit is somehow a cheaper, easier fix for replacing the MR's.


Didn't Soveriegn use the conduit to get to the Citidel?
Lots of dead Reapers with plenty of eezo to donate.
Why would it not be cheaper? It's a knock-off of the real things.


1 - No, Sov used the Mu MR along with the rest of the Geth Fleet while Saren and his Geth troops snuck in the backdoor to disable the Citadel's defenses using the Conduit. 
2 - There are only dead Reapers in the Destroy (good) ending and destroy would mean the eezo core is gone given as the Derelict Reaper in ME2 existed with its core still intact, everything else has the Reapers gone or in the case of Destroy (Bad) obliterated along with all organic life in the vicinity.
3 - its not a cheaper, less sophisticated version of a MR. Just a little smaller and considering you  have to build *more*, not very cost-effective down the line either.

#156
sth128

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CaptainZaysh wrote...

Wrong!  Arrival proves that destroying a mass relay by smashing into it with an asteroid causes a supernova scale explosion.  That's all.

Nothing proves that command detonating a relay from the network control unit would result in the same explosion.

And the thing that actively disproves your theory is that in one of the endings, Shepard is breathing afterwards.

So, you're quite wrong.

No you are wrong. It is not incumbent upon us to prove that relays can explode without taking out a solar system. We have evidence for this. *You* have to show explicitly that the relay explosions shown in the ending did not cause a galactic extinction event.

Fact of the matter is, an expanding shock wave is seen after the relay explosion in the end. Seeing Shepard "breath" means nothing. We have no information on when this happens. One could just as easily say "the shock wave then reached Earth and destroyed everything 2 minutes later".

Come to think of it, WE DON'T KNOW THAT'S SHEPARD BREATHING. All we know is that a person with an N7 tag appears to be breathing. It might as well have been some other N7 personnel having a death rattle.

You DON'T have evidence the explosion was controlled. You DON'T have evidence that it's Shepard. You DON'T have evidence that Earth survived the blast.

You know what we do have? A view of the galaxy experiencing supernova-level explosions: lights so bright that they can be seen outside of the galaxy. Guess what supernovae do? Explode so bright it outshine all stars in the galaxy.

Modifié par sth128, 26 mars 2012 - 01:48 .


#157
FatalX7.0

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SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Sovereign didn't use the conduit, it was Saren and a small force of Geth. Sovereign approached the Citadel through the normal relay system, at the head of the Geth fleet.


Source?


Uh, seriously?

Did you even play Mass Effect? Watch the cinematics?

#158
Shaoken

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FatalX7.0 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

For building the Mass Relays, the Prothean's managed to do it with the one on Illos and the monument in the citadel. If they had any sense, they might have left a copy of the blueprints on the Mars Archive (assuming the Reaper's didn't destroy it for good). So you build it, then use Quantuam Entanglment particles to send the plans to other races and work on the calibrations. Send a few unmaned probes to test it out and fine tune it, and bam! Incredibly simple Mass Relays that can only shoot small ships great distances, but that'd be enough to send people home and deliver food and supplies. Then you work on larger scale Mass Relays.


But the Protheans were also far more advanced than our cycle, and that relay wasn't nearly as large as a full relay.

And they didn't even get it up into space.


It was also a prototype that wasn't even connected to the rest of the network.


The first one was a proof of concept; it could transport them from Illos to the Citadel. Next step is to put them into space. Then you work on making enough of them to connect all the different parts of space.

Worst comes to worse, you use the Mass Effect to shoot them into parts of space you can't use QE to communicate with or who don't have the resources to build them themselves. It'd be a massive undertaking, but it has been demonstrated to be possible.

#159
Slayer299

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Admiral H. Cain wrote...
I thought the Reaper power cores used some type of dark energy?


No, EDI states when you're on the DR that the Eezo core came online and activated the ships barriers which is why you have to destroy it to get off the DR.

#160
Coolfaec

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SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

Nobody left to rebuild ****, everybody died in relays explosions.

Arrival proves it, nothing disproves this.


Your post is fail. This is easily explained. Different type of explosion. No supernova type reaction. Please stop trying to derail the discussion.


lol different kind of explosion, you make it sound like it would actually make a difference.

Even if the explosions weren't deadly, it doesn't change the fact that everybody is still screwed.

#161
Kyle Dei

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You like a soucre for everything yet can't give sources of your own.

1. Galactic Communications with Comm Buoys won't work, based upon the lore everybody else is using.
2. The Prothean Archives DID contain information on the Mass Relays, only humanity couldn't build one. Fortunately we found Charon and the information we had allowed us to thaw it out and activate it.
3. The Conduit was a small, one way Relay linking Ilos to the Citadel so the Prothean's could change the signal and give the Galaxy more time before the next harvest. - May have worked out differently if Javik's One Million survivors did in fact survive. - In theory it could work, but you're not going to get the blueprints for that because it's on Ilos without a power source.
4. Aethyta did say how they should focus on building Mass Relays and was laughed out for it, possibly because the whole 'building relays' was still impossible for them to achieve too.

Did I miss anything?

#162
FatalX7.0

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Shaoken wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

For building the Mass Relays, the Prothean's managed to do it with the one on Illos and the monument in the citadel. If they had any sense, they might have left a copy of the blueprints on the Mars Archive (assuming the Reaper's didn't destroy it for good). So you build it, then use Quantuam Entanglment particles to send the plans to other races and work on the calibrations. Send a few unmaned probes to test it out and fine tune it, and bam! Incredibly simple Mass Relays that can only shoot small ships great distances, but that'd be enough to send people home and deliver food and supplies. Then you work on larger scale Mass Relays.


But the Protheans were also far more advanced than our cycle, and that relay wasn't nearly as large as a full relay.

And they didn't even get it up into space.


It was also a prototype that wasn't even connected to the rest of the network.


The first one was a proof of concept; it could transport them from Illos to the Citadel. Next step is to put them into space. Then you work on making enough of them to connect all the different parts of space.

Worst comes to worse, you use the Mass Effect to shoot them into parts of space you can't use QE to communicate with or who don't have the resources to build them themselves. It'd be a massive undertaking, but it has been demonstrated to be possible.


The conduit was a one way trip, you couldn't go back through it.

#163
Arken

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SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Codex. 

http://masseffect.wi...odex/Technology 


Posted Image  Nice. You almost got me. Change of plans. We build a lot of Conduits to aid in the communication, so we can build new realys. Mwhahahaahaah!!  Posted Image


There are a few problems with your "solution";

1. Conduit is a mini, one-way only, MR. so you'd have to build two per system to have anything go and return.
2. Since the conduit is smaller so should the level of mass it can transport, i.e. - nothing larger than a Mako. 
3. The large amounts of eezo, where are you getting it from? The mines are abandoned/destroyed and Thessia is not an option.
4. You're assuming that the conduit is somehow a cheaper, easier fix for replacing the MR's.


Didn't Soveriegn use the conduit to get to the Citidel?
Lots of dead Reapers with plenty of eezo to donate.
Why would it not be cheaper? It's a knock-off of the real things.


1) Yes, he used it in his plan, but only Saren went through it. And it only lead to the Citadel on a one way trip. The Protheans who built the Conduit spent a great deal of their lives just to get a single pair of Relays to work. It would take more than ten years to replace all of the Mass Relays.

2) Cores would be destroyed in the Destroy ending.

3) Except we have no idea how difficult it was to make. Just because something is a knock-off does not mean it's easier to create or even as effective as the real thing. If the Protheans only had enough time to get a single pair of Relays working, you have to ask yourself how long it would take to replace every single Relay in the galaxy*.

* = I saw someone throwing around the word universe earlier. I just wanted to remind people that Mass Effect only takes place within the Milky Wat galaxy.

Modifié par Arken, 26 mars 2012 - 01:55 .


#164
FatalX7.0

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Arken wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Codex. 

http://masseffect.wi...odex/Technology 


Posted Image  Nice. You almost got me. Change of plans. We build a lot of Conduits to aid in the communication, so we can build new realys. Mwhahahaahaah!!  Posted Image


There are a few problems with your "solution";

1. Conduit is a mini, one-way only, MR. so you'd have to build two per system to have anything go and return.
2. Since the conduit is smaller so should the level of mass it can transport, i.e. - nothing larger than a Mako. 
3. The large amounts of eezo, where are you getting it from? The mines are abandoned/destroyed and Thessia is not an option.
4. You're assuming that the conduit is somehow a cheaper, easier fix for replacing the MR's.


Didn't Soveriegn use the conduit to get to the Citidel?
Lots of dead Reapers with plenty of eezo to donate.
Why would it not be cheaper? It's a knock-off of the real things.


1) Yes. He did. And it only lead to the Citadel. The Protheans who built the Conduit spent a great deal of their lives just to get a single pair of Relays to work. It would take more than ten years to replace all of the Mass Relays.

2) That makes sense.

3) Except we have no idea how difficult it was to make. Just because something is a knock-off does not mean it's easier to create or even as effective as the real thing. If the Protheans only had enough time to get a single pair of Relays working, you have to ask yourself how long it would take to replace every single Relay in the galaxy*.

* = I saw someone throwing around the word universe earlier. I just wanted to remind people that Mass Effect only takes place within the Milky Wat galaxy.




9 seconds in, doesn't look like Sovereign going through the Conduit to me.

#165
Slayer299

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Arken wrote...

Didn't Soveriegn use the conduit to get to the Citidel?
Lots of dead Reapers with plenty of eezo to donate.
Why would it not be cheaper? It's a knock-off of the real things.


1) Yes. He did. And it only lead to the Citadel. The Protheans who built the Conduit spent a great deal of their lives just to get a single pair of Relays to work. It would take more than ten years to replace all of the Mass Relays.


Ermmm, no, Sov didn't use the Conduit or he's have been *inside* the Citadel. He and the rest of the Geth fleet used the Mu relay to get to the Citadel.

Modifié par Slayer299, 26 mars 2012 - 01:52 .


#166
Taleroth

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Didn't Mass Effect 1 reveal that one consequence of blowing up ships near a planet is that the eezo contaminates the atmosphere and causes birth defects? Yay Earth.

#167
Slayer299

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It also *does* create the potential for Biotics too, but yeah, lots of eezo poison on Earth :(

#168
Arken

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Slayer299 wrote...

Ermmm, no, Sov didn't use the Conduit or he's have been *inside* the Citadel. He and the rest of the Geth fleet used the Mu relay to get to the Citadel.

I meant to say that Soveriegn used it during the attack. Only Saren went through the Conduit, but it was part of Sovereign's attack.

#169
FatalX7.0

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Taleroth wrote...

Didn't Mass Effect 1 reveal that one consequence of blowing up ships near a planet is that the eezo contaminates the atmosphere and causes birth defects? Yay Earth.


Oh yeah, I remember that.

When you talk to Kaidan about his Biotic school days.

#170
sth128

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Arken wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Didn't Soveriegn use the conduit to get to the Citidel?
Lots of dead Reapers with plenty of eezo to donate.
Why would it not be cheaper? It's a knock-off of the real things.


1) Yes. He did. And it only lead to the Citadel. The Protheans who built the Conduit spent a great deal of their lives just to get a single pair of Relays to work. It would take more than ten years to replace all of the Mass Relays.

2) Cores would be destroyed in the Destroy ending.

3) Except we have no idea how difficult it was to make. Just because something is a knock-off does not mean it's easier to create or even as effective as the real thing. If the Protheans only had enough time to get a single pair of Relays working, you have to ask yourself how long it would take to replace every single Relay in the galaxy*.

* = I saw someone throwing around the word universe earlier. I just wanted to remind people that Mass Effect only takes place within the Milky Wat galaxy.

1) You are wrong. Sovereign did NOT use the conduit. Shepard and Saren used the Conduit. Sovereign cannot possibly use the Conduit, he would emerge inside the Citadel and a GIANT EXPLOSION would ensue.

2) We don't know that. The last time we destroyed a Reaper core we saw a big explosion (ME2 dead Reaper). We didn't witness such explosions across Earth. The Reapers just fell over.

3) I agree with you. Given the stage of the galaxy after the war, they won't have enough resources to research the relays. They will barely have enough resources to restore basic order on each planet.

#171
SpiderFan1217

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Mcjon01 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Sovereign didn't use the conduit, it was Saren and a small force of Geth. Sovereign approached the Citadel through the normal relay system, at the head of the Geth fleet.


Source?


The end of Mass Effect, and eyes. Did you not watch any of the cinematics?


Never saw him enter a Mass Relay.

#172
FatalX7.0

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SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Sovereign didn't use the conduit, it was Saren and a small force of Geth. Sovereign approached the Citadel through the normal relay system, at the head of the Geth fleet.


Source?


The end of Mass Effect, and eyes. Did you not watch any of the cinematics?


Never saw him enter a Mass Relay.





At 9 seconds, you can see him exit a relay.

Now, if I remember correctly, I think you have to enter a relay to exit from a relay.

#173
sth128

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Shaoken wrote...
Worst comes to worse, you use the Mass Effect to shoot them into parts of space you can't use QE to communicate with or who don't have the resources to build them themselves. It'd be a massive undertaking, but it has been demonstrated to be possible.

Yes... Shoot them into space using mass effect. Then three centuries later it hits a planet and kaboom.

You didn't pay much attention to the drill sergeant in ME2 did you? Newton is one mean mother...

You need A PAIR of relays before you can shoot anything anywhere. If you only have one (or if you shoot something out into space), it'll just keep going forever never slowing down.

#174
Jamie9

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Wouldn't Sovereign have too high a mass to use the Conduit anyway? I assume that is why the Mass Relays are so big. Yes I know size does not equal mass, but it would be relative right? The Conduit wouldn't be able to transport things the same size as the Mass Relays could.

#175
golyoscsapagy

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Slayer299 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...
We don't. In fact we're told the opposite. The gramps seems to think the kid can visit space within his lifetime.


No, gramps is just saying what every *other* grandparent/parent/etc says to a child when they're putting off answering a question they don't want to right then. "one day, my sweet", does not mean when the child grows up, especially not when you listen to the rest of the conversation where he tells the kid that every planet 'could have different forms of life', emphasis on *could*, not does. That says that humanity does not go off-planet, has not gone off-planet and it is only a far off idea, not a present or near reality. 

 
I think you are trying to imply something which wasn't said per se. The dialog as follows:

'When can I go to the stars?'
'One day my sweet'
'What will be there?'
'Anything you can imagine, our galaxy has billions of stars. Each of those stars could have many worlds. Every world could be home to a different form of life.'

Nothing here implies that space travel is a long way away. If anything the question of When from the child implies that space travel is a possibility (note, (s)he would ask 'can I go to the stars?' if the only thing (s)he ever heard was a fable about shepard). Stargazes scrip can be interpreted if the stargazer himself is a space farer. If anyone he know how freaking huge our universe is and how long would it take to map all of it. That's why he generalizes to the kid because that's the most correct picture about how huge the task is and WHY do you want to explore the galaxy.

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Prior to the events of Arrival, however, Dr. Amanda Kenson
and her research team calculated that if a large enough mass impacts a
relay with enough force, the relay should not be able to withstand it.
The consequences of destroying a mass relay are immense: as a huge mass
effect engine manipulating massive quantities of energy, a relay could
produce an explosion of supernova proportions.


@first bold

Simply means that a Relay can physically break if a large enough object hits it.



@second bold

Should be obvious. It's Eezo core, it's Mass Effect engine is massive, when that energy is released, in any manner, boom, whole system dead.


Wrong. The only data you can gather from arrival is that if you smash a mass relay with a high-speed asteroid, it goes off uncontrollably.
For a really easy analogy from real life. What do you think would happen if you take an fission bomb, slap a brick of c4 on it and blow it up? Chances are high nothing (well, of course you would have a small explosion from the initial c4 and the charges in the bomb, but fission wouldn't happen).

So, for mass relays there is certanly a way to blow it up as a supernova (via Arrival method) but it doesn't imply it cannot be destroyed with less destructible means (like a fission bomb).