155 réponses à ce sujet

[pablosplinter]

I agree Thetri.

This is just totally ridiculous.

[GnusmasTHX]

shengar wrote...

If you keep justify that Joker would chicken out during the battle because of EDI or whatever else, that mean you just supporting a bad writing. Like I said, it totally out of his character and there is no way Joker would chicken out without good explanation.

I think it's perfeclty in character.

Joker learned between ME1 and ME2 that his stubborness kills people. He has 30 lives to look after, not the one life that his been MIA for god knows how long.

[Nyctyris]

So how does this account for the missing dialogue, where Joker shows up to save the day?

[Jeitiiea]

On the point that EDI would remind Joker she doesn't want to die... I'm not sure what you have to do to get to that point, but before the battle, EDI spoke to my Shepard and stated quite clearly that she WAS prepared to die, to save the galaxy.

[Elyiia]

SimKoning wrote...

pablosplinter wrote...

SimKoning wrote...


The actual lines were:

"did we get anyone to the beam?"
"Negative, our entire force was decimated"
"We need to regroup"
"Hammer has been WIPED OUT all forces RETREAT"

As far as EDI, my point still stands. The Normandy's sensors would have detected the Crucible powering up, and I imagine EDI might remind Joker that she doesn't want to die. 

So why did Joker go nd pick up one of your squad from there?  ........and leave Shepard, still alive right out in the open

They just watched him/her get blasted by a giant laser beam. Also, by the time Shepard wakes up, you can see Harbinger taking off after something. I'm betting he is pissed and wants to take out the Normandy himself. One more reason to retreat: the most powerful Reaper in existence is right on your ***.

Except of course, that Hackett contacts Shep inside the citadel so Joker knows he's alive. And you have absolutely no basis for assuming Harby is going after the Normandy.

[shengar]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Actually it was joker's lame crippled ass that got shep killed, if his ****** was a bit more logical he'd have hobbled to the nearest escape pod with the rest of the crew, but it was Shepard who pulled his ass out of the fire

That just adding more explanation/point on why Joker would be indebted to Shepard. He killed Shepard once, inderectly of course. And no matter how happy-go-lucky Joker is, that would haunt him untill Shepard resurrection by Cerberus. He lucky that Shepard didn't blame him for Shepard's death.

[Jonto0]

Remind how Joker would find out if shepard is the only one talking to the catalyst?

[pablosplinter]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

shengar wrote...

If you keep justify that Joker would chicken out during the battle because of EDI or whatever else, that mean you just supporting a bad writing. Like I said, it totally out of his character and there is no way Joker would chicken out without good explanation.

I think it's perfeclty in character.

Joker learned between ME1 and ME2 that his stubborness kills people. He has 30 lives to look after, not the one life that his been MIA for god knows how long.

Even accepting all that(nonsense), why does he pick one of your crew up, leaving Shepard alive and injured practically where he fell. Is he going to risk the 30 lives(or whatever) for Vega but not Shepard?

Modifié par pablosplinter, 26 mars 2012 - 12:27 .

[Swisspease]

Edi only dies in the destroy ending. Why run from the others?

[SimKoning]

shengar wrote...

If you keep justify that Joker would chicken out during the battle because of EDI or whatever else, that mean you just supporting a bad writing. Like I said, it totally out of his character and there is no way Joker would chicken out without good explanation.

Do you think the Normandy would stand a chance against Harbinger? Do you think getting the Admiral, your entire crew, and the one of the most intelligent AIs in existence killed in the name of "bravery" would be smart?  Is that good writing? Also, if you notice, the only thing around the Crucible before it fires is Reapers and debris.. I think it's safe to say that the fleet got it's *** kicked by that point. 

[ZajoE38]

Mass relay jump is near instantaneous. You just enter the relay and you are out in a blink of an eye. Normandy was not using relay, Normandy was in FTL travel and being chased by the crucible explosion shockwave. It is logical. Or it was just Shepard's dream about how he wanted to be his crew in safe

[Lozark]

Still has serious problems.
Would EDI be cool with that?  Her body is with Shep on Earth.  Wouldn't wants the Normandy to stay in range so that she can control it?  This is a crew used to suicide missions, at least in part.  Defeating the Reapers is a little more serious than... anything else, really.
How do all the other teammates get on the Normandy? They were scattered about the battlefields in London and there wouldn't have been time to find and gather them all. On top of that, in the cases Vega or the LI or the VS in particular, they wouldn't want to abandon Earth or Shep.
And then Garrus and Tali starved to death.

Modifié par Lozark, 26 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[GnusmasTHX]

pablosplinter wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

shengar wrote...

If you keep justify that Joker would chicken out during the battle because of EDI or whatever else, that mean you just supporting a bad writing. Like I said, it totally out of his character and there is no way Joker would chicken out without good explanation.

I think it's perfeclty in character.

Joker learned between ME1 and ME2 that his stubborness kills people. He has 30 lives to look after, not the one life that his been MIA for god knows how long.

Even accepting all that(nonsense), why does he pick one of your crew up, leaving Shepard alive and injured practically where he fell. Is he going to risk the 30 lives(or whatever) for Vega but not Shepard?

Because he couldn't pick up Shepard. He was assumed dead until he was radioed by Hackett.

[SimKoning]

pablosplinter wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

shengar wrote...

If you keep justify that Joker would chicken out during the battle because of EDI or whatever else, that mean you just supporting a bad writing. Like I said, it totally out of his character and there is no way Joker would chicken out without good explanation.

I think it's perfeclty in character.

Joker learned between ME1 and ME2 that his stubborness kills people. He has 30 lives to look after, not the one life that his been MIA for god knows how long.

Even accepting all that(nonsense), why does he pick one of your crew up, leaving Shepard alive and injured practically where he fell. Is he going to risk the 30 lives(or whatever) for Vega but not Shepard?

Shepard fell directly in front of Harbinger... what is the Normandy going to land right in front of a 2 mile high death machine?

Modifié par SimKoning, 26 mars 2012 - 12:29 .

[thehomeworld]

That's a nice idea OP but the problem is EDI can live on the Lost planet too so she's fine even if you hit destroy. The last thing I can come up with is they went down to the beam picked up an injured shep and was racing him to help in another galaxy and he dies on the lost world instead.

[pablosplinter]

SimKoning wrote...

pablosplinter wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

shengar wrote...

If you keep justify that Joker would chicken out during the battle because of EDI or whatever else, that mean you just supporting a bad writing. Like I said, it totally out of his character and there is no way Joker would chicken out without good explanation.

I think it's perfeclty in character.

Joker learned between ME1 and ME2 that his stubborness kills people. He has 30 lives to look after, not the one life that his been MIA for god knows how long.

Even accepting all that(nonsense), why does he pick one of your crew up, leaving Shepard alive and injured practically where he fell. Is he going to risk the 30 lives(or whatever) for Vega but not Shepard?

Shepard fell directly in front of Harbinger... what is the Normandy going to land right in front of a 2 mile high death machine?

No. exactly, it is all total nonsense-speculation. He must have landed somewhere not too far away to pick up your other squad member as well anyway. They are obviously far more important than Shepard.

[Thetri]

pablosplinter wrote...

I agree Thetri.

This is just totally ridiculous.

I'm glad someone agrees. I remember when each new game that came out was a improvement over the previous. I wish we were still in those times. 

[SimKoning]

ZajoE38 wrote...

Mass relay jump is near instantaneous. You just enter the relay and you are out in a blink of an eye. Normandy was not using relay, Normandy was in FTL travel and being chased by the crucible explosion shockwave. It is logical. Or it was just Shepard's dream about how he wanted to be his crew in safe

That's possible too. The shockwave may have simply disrupted the mass effect envelope enough to cause shearing forces to damage the ship, but not enough to collapse the field entirely. If it had, the crew would have been fried by radiation. 

As far as EDI goes: she was probably just one of several reasons why they took off. 1. They may have detected the Crucible powering up, and not knowing what effect it would have, the fleet retreated to a safe distance. It's possible the Normandy was one of the last ships to take off. 2. The Normandy is partly controlled by a quantum computer (EDI), all AIs are quantum computers in the ME universe. They only knew that the Crucible is a weapon against AIs (Reapers), so logically they would probably want to get to as far away from the Crucible as possible once they knew it was about to fire. 3. Harbinger was probably right on their ***. 

Modifié par SimKoning, 26 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[SimKoning]

pablosplinter wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

pablosplinter wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

shengar wrote...

If you keep justify that Joker would chicken out during the battle because of EDI or whatever else, that mean you just supporting a bad writing. Like I said, it totally out of his character and there is no way Joker would chicken out without good explanation.

I think it's perfeclty in character.

Joker learned between ME1 and ME2 that his stubborness kills people. He has 30 lives to look after, not the one life that his been MIA for god knows how long.

Even accepting all that(nonsense), why does he pick one of your crew up, leaving Shepard alive and injured practically where he fell. Is he going to risk the 30 lives(or whatever) for Vega but not Shepard?

Shepard fell directly in front of Harbinger... what is the Normandy going to land right in front of a 2 mile high death machine?

No. exactly, it is all total nonsense-speculation. He must have landed somewhere not too far away to pick up your other squad member as well anyway. They are obviously far more important than Shepard.

No, they were just, you know, moving, running, walking, the usual indicators of life. As far as they could see Shepard was not only dead, he was laying right in front of Harbinger, so there would have been no way for anyone to get to him. Hammer was ordered to retreat, in the military you follow orders...

Sorry about the double post. 

Modifié par SimKoning, 26 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[worior]

Don't you guys GET IT?

Joker was running from horrible Endings!!

Modifié par worior, 26 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[Dunizel]

I'm kinda sick of these guessing games, We shoulnd't be here guessing the motives of Joker or if he knew something from radio, or not, or if he talked to EDI...
And yeah, though he might regret his previous stubborness, do you really believe that in a war where every single fleet of the galaxy is fighting to the last, he would retreat? For what? Every soldier knew what was at stake, I assume Joker woulnd't be so selfish or even unsubordinate to run away while Shepard and his friends/comrades are fighting. EDI or not, really.
Then there is the problem of the squad members magically on the Normandy.
I fail to see the sense of it.

I honestly think that scene was just a sort of "what if" in Shepard's mind. It's the only thing that works for me. He imagines what would happen to his friends if he chooses something and that's all.

Otherwise, instead of the Normandy scene, I would have been happier with just a small video of the leaves and the lush vegetation. Some sort of "And life went on, the galaxy recovered." Not completely satisfying maybe, but still better than "lots of speculation for everyone".

[viperabyss]

SimKoning wrote...



I was trying to figure out why the heck Joker would take off just before the Crucible activated, and then the answer hit me hard enough to leave a hand print on my face: the Crucible is a big anti Reaper weapon of some kind, that's all the Alliance knew; the Reaper's brains contain quantum computers; EDI is a quantum computer; common sense says that if you don't want your robot girlfriend's AI core fried, then it's probably a good idea to take off at least at the very last minute. Joker must have been in relay transit when the blast hit him. The blast probably disrupted the mass effect field, and the resulting shearing forces tore up the exterior of the ship.

Your squad was probably on board because he was serving as air support/evac when Hammer became a huge CF thanks to Harbinger. We don't see it, but Harbinger was probably in pursuit of the Normandy when you look up and see him take off.    

That's somewhat a good speculation on why Joker would leave. However, given that nobody knows what the Crucible does exactly, I really don't think Joker would abandon Shepard at the last minute.

But what can I say? It is a victorious and uplifting ending with lots of speculations from everyone.

[Iwillbeback]

Joker picked up my squad after the Harbinger appeared.
So everyone got raped by the Reaper except my squad because they weren't with me because they fled and they got in radio contact with Joker.

Ok that explains it.

[Morden2261]

This still doesn't explain how Tali, who was with me on the ground when Harbinger blasted me, came out of the door of the Normandy on that alien world at the end of the game. Joker would have had to fly the Normandy literally right into the most heavily defended place in the SOLAR SYSTEM (if not GALAXY), land, pick Tali up, haul ass to the Charon relay, and make the jump. All this would have to happen after Joker was somehow informed of exactly what the Crucible was going to do which Shepard himself didn't know until literally a minute before he had to make his final choice.

I'm sad to say, but the more likely explanation for this is that the ending was not properly thought out.

Modifié par Morden2261, 26 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[MOELANDER]

Even if Joker somehow got wind, that the Pulse would kill EDI... EDI would have stopped him from fleeing, because EDI said herself, she would be okay with sacrificing herself.