155 réponses à ce sujet

[Pappi]

Harbringer was in the boot. :3

[Bfler]

A possible explanation of the disappearing squadmates is included in the not used sound files of the game:

The Hammer team receives the order to retreat, then Joker arrives with the Normandy, destroys the large Reaper. With that he rescues the Hammer team.

There is no soundfile which states that he picks up your mates, but the above would give him time to do it.

Modifié par Bfler, 26 mars 2012 - 01:07 .

[SimKoning]

Hey, I'm not saying that the endings are GOOD. I am playing Devil's advocate here, because I don't really like the endings that much at all. However, I have noticed people being really intellectually lazy when it comes to some of these gaps in the story. I agree, I shouldn't have to write pages of text to make sense of this stupid ending... it's absurd, but I can't enjoy this game unless I at least try to mitigate this disaster.

[Pandaman102]

Here's another idea: Hackett ordered Joker to pick up the team (somehow) upon assuming Hammer failed in order to enact Liara's time capsule plan. She would have already seeded the various planets with the capsules, but being the brains of the plan she would also have to be taken far and away from any potential indoctrination. The Normandy is the best ship equipped for that with its stealth system, and Shepard's team is arguably the best suited to protect her.

Still, regardless of what the cause may have been it's hard to justify Joker's "Shepard's rotting on Earth but I have my metal RealDoll with me, it's all cool" smile at the end of the green ending.

[Swordfishtrombone]

coolbeans wrote...

Isn't relay transit supposed to be "near instantanous"

True. Good point - so the scene with Joker scrambling to... steer(?) while "in transit" seems really odd - would there be time "in transit" to do anything? Though I could excuse some creative licence here, if the rest of the oddities and inconsistencies and motivations around Normandy's escape weren't there - if the scene was otherwise well written and internally consistent.

Modifié par Swordfishtrombone, 26 mars 2012 - 01:09 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

coolbeans wrote...

Isn't relay transit supposed to be "near instantanous"

True. Good point - so the scene with Joker scrambling to... steer(?) while "in transit" seems really odd - would there be time "in transit" to do anything?

If they were even in a Relay, you would've seen Joker approach the Relay only seconds before the beam from the Citadel hits.

[Pandaman102]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

coolbeans wrote...

Isn't relay transit supposed to be "near instantanous"

True. Good point - so the scene with Joker scrambling to... steer(?) while "in transit" seems really odd - would there be time "in transit" to do anything?

No, remember the final relay jump in ME2? They had several hours to go, enough time for Shepard to get a pork in, before they arrived. That was just to the center of the galaxy, which you regularly skip around while visiting various systems.

[Cannonarm758]

Also, even if joker was trying to save EDI, do you think SHE would want him to run away. She would want everyone to fight as long as possible, even if that meant self sacrifice.

She would smack joker around if he tried to retreat from the battle for her.

[SimKoning]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

coolbeans wrote...

Isn't relay transit supposed to be "near instantanous"

True. Good point - so the scene with Joker scrambling to... steer(?) while "in transit" seems really odd - would there be time "in transit" to do anything?

That pretty much rules out a relay trip, so the planet that they were on must be somwhere close to Sol. There are a few systems around our solar system that could have earth like worlds.

[GnusmasTHX]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

coolbeans wrote...

Isn't relay transit supposed to be "near instantanous"

True. Good point - so the scene with Joker scrambling to... steer(?) while "in transit" seems really odd - would there be time "in transit" to do anything?

No, remember the final relay jump in ME2? They had several hours to go, enough time for Shepard to get a pork in, before they arrived. That was just to the center of the galaxy, which you regularly skip around while visiting various systems.

No. That jump was very much near instantaneous. Whatever happened happened before you took the jump.

When Joker enters the Omega 4 Relay, Shepard doesn't even bother leaving his side because they arrive not 10 seconds after.

Cannonarm758 wrote...

Also, even if joker was trying to save EDI, do you think SHE would want him to run away. She would want everyone to fight as long as possible, even if that meant self sacrifice. 

She would smack joker around if he tried to retreat from the battle for her.

There are more lives than just EDI on the ship.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 26 mars 2012 - 01:11 .

[tanuki]

If Joker tried to pull such a stunt even IF EDI HERSELF would agree (which I honestly doubt), other squadmembers, not even mentioning Shepard's LI, would throw him out the airlock first.

I imagine it so clearly:
Normandy is hovering just above earth near the beam. Joker looks out: "Hey guys, hop in, we need to run away to save my robogirlfriend". Everybody (including Javic, whose sole purpose of living is to get his revenge on the Reapers ,Shepard's LI and Shepard's bff Garrus) happily board the Normandy, without second though about Shepard and head to the Charon relay...

Yup right.

[SimKoning]

Cannonarm758 wrote...

Also, even if joker was trying to save EDI, do you think SHE would want him to run away. She would want everyone to fight as long as possible, even if that meant self sacrifice.

She would smack joker around if he tried to retreat from the battle for her.

That's a valid point, but the lack of ships around the Crucible when it was just about to fire suggests to me that everyone took off, because it could be some super bomb that destroys everything within a 5 light year radius for all they know. 

[Pandaman102]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

No. That jump was very much near instantaneous. Whatever happened happened before you took the jump.

When Joker enters the Omega 4 Relay, Shepard doesn't even bother leaving his side because they arrive not 10 seconds after.

Ahh, right, I remembered the sequence incorrectly. It took several hours to reach the relay itself.

[coolbeans]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

coolbeans wrote...

Isn't relay transit supposed to be "near instantanous"

True. Good point - so the scene with Joker scrambling to... steer(?) while "in transit" seems really odd - would there be time "in transit" to do anything?

No, remember the final relay jump in ME2? They had several hours to go, enough time for Shepard to get a pork in, before they arrived. That was just to the center of the galaxy, which you regularly skip around while visiting various systems.

I assumed that was the FTL'ng to the relay that Sheperd gets his Schwing on, Codex entry on the relays says:

"Mass relays are feats of Prothean
engineering advanced far beyond the technology of any living species.
They are enormous structures scattered throughout the stars, and can
create corridors of virtually mass-free space allowing instantaneous
transit between locations separated by years or even centuries of travel
using conventional FTL drives.
"

I'm sure the writers wouldn't disregard their own lore, right...........?

[Pandaman102]

SimKoning wrote...

That's a valid point, but the lack of ships around the Crucible when it was just about to fire suggests to me that everyone took off, because it could be some super bomb that destroys everything within a 5 light year radius for all they know. 

Which raises another point: if that was the assumption, why was the evacuation of Earth never mentioned in any of the planning, or even an objection of firing the Crucible near Earth raised? That seems like something a Paragon Shepard would at least get a little hot under the collar about before grudgingly accepting the sacrifice of billions.

[ZajoE38]

Joker was just flying in FTL (using relay he couldn't even move a finger because it's instantaneous, yet we can see him helming) and got hit by explosion. And as we know only very few planets are habitable in the galaxy, but he manages to land on a paradise world without engines and kinetic barriers with everyone surviving. We all know that spaceship is fragile (ME2 ending).

[GnusmasTHX]

Pandaman102 wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

That's a valid point, but the lack of ships around the Crucible when it was just about to fire suggests to me that everyone took off, because it could be some super bomb that destroys everything within a 5 light year radius for all they know. 

Which raises another point: if that was the assumption, why was the evacuation of Earth never mentioned in any of the planning, or even an objection of firing the Crucible near Earth raised? That seems like something a Paragon Shepard would at least get a little hot under the collar about before grudgingly accepting the sacrifice of billions.

I think it was more the case that the majority of the Fleet was dead, and that the Reapers had already started landing on Earth to clean up Hammer. (There are quite a few Reaper dreads in just the small area in the ending cinematic, with that Destroyer just landing).

There's still at least one Reaper on the Crucible, and apparently, if you wait long enough, it's enough to destroy it.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 26 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[SimKoning]

Off topic a bit:

For the relays to be that fast, they would need to warp space on top increasing the speed of light with the whole negative energy corridor. Huh, they would have to be a form of warp propulsion. Cool.

ZajoE38 wrote...

Joker was just flying in FTL (using relay he couldn't even move a finger because it's instantaneous, yet we can see him helming) and got hit by explosion. And as we know only very few planets are habitable in the galaxy, but he manages to land on a paradise world without engines and kinetic barriers with everyone surviving. We all know that spaceship is fragile (ME2 ending).

The Normandy had a form of reactionless drive in the form of the Tantalus, which is basically a half warp drive. Even if the rockets in the back were lost, it could still fly and land. Heck, the big warships were shown hovering in atmosphere during the invasion of Earth. 

Modifié par SimKoning, 26 mars 2012 - 01:21 .

[Pandaman102]

Idly, on a slightly-related topic, did anyone not get that drive core shunt the engineering team asked for? I believe everyone in engineering is supposed to get vaporized if the Normandy received serious damage while in FTL if you don't.

Wonder if that little design flaw also extends up to the bridge and prevents anyone from coming out of the Normandy, regardless of ending choice.

[crimzontearz]

yeah joker is not gonna committ mutiny like that

[ZajoE38]

SimKoning wrote...

Off topic a bit:

For the relays to be that fast, they would need to warp space on top increasing the speed of light with the whole negative energy corridor. Huh, they would have to be a form of warp propulsion. Cool.

ZajoE38 wrote...

Joker was just flying in FTL (using relay he couldn't even move a finger because it's instantaneous, yet we can see him helming) and got hit by explosion. And as we know only very few planets are habitable in the galaxy, but he manages to land on a paradise world without engines and kinetic barriers with everyone surviving. We all know that spaceship is fragile (ME2 ending).

The Normandy had a form of reactionless drive in the form of the Tantalus, which is basically a half warp drive. Even if the rockets in the back were lost, it could still fly and land. Heck, the big warships were shown hovering in atmosphere during the invasion of Earth. 

Still, it doesn't explaing why did Normandy picked up my squadmates and let Shepard lying around I have to stop playing ME3 and start another game. I can't stand that plotholes. I'll replay ME3 with corrected ending DLC.

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, there's no way in hell that the rest of the crew would have let Joker do something like that if they knew that there's a chance that Shepard might be alive.

Not to mention that it's so OOC for the pilot who's never backed down from a climactic battle before to suddenly turn tail and run for no good reason.

[SimKoning]

crimzontearz wrote...

yeah joker is not gonna committ mutiny like that

I didn't mean to suggest that it would be out and out mutiny. EDI is an extremely valuable anti-Reaper cyber warfare weapon, I wouldn't be surpised if Hacket himself told Joker to protect her. 

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, there's no way in hell that the rest of the crew would have let Joker do something like that if they knew that there's a chance that Shepard might be alive.

Not to mention that it's so OOC for the pilot who's never backed down from a climactic battle before to suddenly turn tail and run for no good reason.

I think people keep forgetting about Harbinger, destroyer of worlds an all that. 

Modifié par SimKoning, 26 mars 2012 - 01:36 .

[nevar00]

- Relay travel is instantaneous, he was not in the middle of anything but FTL
- Nobody knew what was going to happen, and even if something was going to happen it's still a stretch to think Joker would ditch everyone

[Max2011]

This is so dumb dude....

1) no matter your choice the crucible rays catch up to Normandy.

2) on the synthesis choice the Normandy gets hit by the rays and edi still lives ~ pretty much counting your theory out of the equation.

3) joker is well aware that the crucibles beam will reach the whole galaxy.

So sorry mate but your theory is invalid in many ways