155 réponses à ce sujet

[jumpingkaede]

SimKoning wrote...

I didn't mean to suggest that it would be out and out mutiny. EDI is an extremely valuable anti-Reaper cyber warfare weapon, I wouldn't be surpised if Hacket himself told Joker to protect her. 

Wait so the theory here is that Joker knew the Crucible would destroy all Reapers and Reaper tech so Hackett told Joker to fly out of there to protect EDI...

When the Crucible destroys all the Reaper and Reaper tech?  Why would  the Alliance need anti-Reaper cyber warfare weapon if the Reapers are all destroyed?

[snakeboy86]

So many questions....it's things like this that drive me nuts, I liked the ending, but the holes are huge

[Ssation]

SimKoning wrote...

I didn't mean to suggest that it would be out and out mutiny. EDI is an extremely valuable anti-Reaper cyber warfare weapon, I wouldn't be surpised if Hacket himself told Joker to protect her.

According to the fact that Hacket knows Shepard is alive and on the Citadel (anyone said plothole?) then he wouldn't ask Joker to leave.

[SimKoning]

nevar00 wrote...

- Relay travel is instantaneous, he was not in the middle of anything but FTL
- Nobody knew what was going to happen, and even if something was going to happen it's still a stretch to think Joker would ditch everyone

How do you know he was ditching everyone? The Normandy may have been one of the last ones out for all we know.  In other words, everyone one may have tried to get clear of the Crucible. This is a thing that vaporizes the surface Earth of your EMS is too low...

Max2011 wrote...

This is so dumb dude....

1) no matter your choice the crucible rays catch up to Normandy.

2) on the synthesis choice the Normandy gets hit by the rays and edi still lives ~ pretty much counting your theory out of the equation.

3) joker is well aware that the crucibles beam will reach the whole galaxy.

So sorry mate but your theory is invalid in many ways

1) How would he know that?

2)How would he know that before hand, when they knew very little about what the Crucible actually does?

3)Nobody even knew what it was going to do in the first place... beyond (hopefully) destroying the most powerful warships known to man... I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it when it goes off. Would you?

[Someone With Mass]

SimKoning wrote...

I think people keep forgetting about Harbinger, destroyer of worlds an all that. 

Please.

There's no logical reason for Harbinger to suddenly start to hunt the Normandy down when there's a much larger and more important battle going on. 

[GnusmasTHX]

Someone With Mass wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

I think people keep forgetting about Harbinger, destroyer of worlds an all that. 

Please.

There's no logical reason for Harbinger to suddenly start to hunt the Normandy down when there's a much larger and more important battle going on. 

Because the Reapers are creatures of logic.

[Giguelingueling]

SimKoning wrote...

The actual lines were:

"did we get anyone to the beam?"
"Negative, our entire force was decimated"
"We need to regroup"
"Hammer has been WIPED OUT all forces RETREAT"

Even that make no sense, this is it. The battle for earth is the last chance they have to beat the reaper, period. There's no retreat possible it's now or never, period. They don't have the luxury to retreat 

[SimKoning]

jumpingkaede wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

I didn't mean to suggest that it would be out and out mutiny. EDI is an extremely valuable anti-Reaper cyber warfare weapon, I wouldn't be surpised if Hacket himself told Joker to protect her. 

Wait so the theory here is that Joker knew the Crucible would destroy all Reapers and Reaper tech so Hackett told Joker to fly out of there to protect EDI...

When the Crucible destroys all the Reaper and Reaper tech?  Why would  the Alliance need anti-Reaper cyber warfare weapon if the Reapers are all destroyed?

No, all they knew is that it might damage the Reapers or destroy them. They would have had no way of knowing if it would destroy a few Reapers, most of them, or all of them. EDI, as well as the most deadly squad in the galaxy, might be worth keeping alive in case some Reapers are were stil kicking after the Crucible went off. 

[SimKoning]

Someone With Mass wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

I think people keep forgetting about Harbinger, destroyer of worlds an all that. 

Please.

There's no logical reason for Harbinger to suddenly start to hunt the Normandy down when there's a much larger and more important battle going on. 

Yeah, because the pilot, crew and AI are only responsible for the deaths of 4 Reapers and all of the Collectors.. no logical reason at all. 

[jumpingkaede]

Giguelingueling wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

The actual lines were:

"did we get anyone to the beam?"
"Negative, our entire force was decimated"
"We need to regroup"
"Hammer has been WIPED OUT all forces RETREAT"

Even that make no sense, this is it. The battle for earth is the last chance they have to beat the reaper, period. There's no retreat possible it's now or never, period. They don't have the luxury to retreat 

I don't even think those are the ACTUAL lines.   I recall the radio call saying something like "Fall back to the buildings."

Akin to a regroup order.  You know, to make another run at the beam?  Shepard isn't the only one who can activate the Crucible (as far as anyone knows).  They just need ONE person to make it.  [Evidence: everyone running for the beam.]

Making an attempt while Harbinger is standing there is suicide evidently but Harbinger wasn't standing around guarding the beam forever.  [Evidence:  Harbinger flying away like a doofus.]

And even if Harbinger was going to stand around, they still needed to try.  As pointed out above: an actual retreat order makes no sense.  Where would they retreat to?  And why?  

[rudenotginger]

No. Joker wouldn't abandon Shepard, even for EDI. No way. Nobody would have let him anyway, even EDI herself.

[cerberus1701]

Elyiia wrote...

Joker tries to fly away, Javik shots him in the back of the head for being a coward.
Joker tries to fly away, Liara crushes him with biotics.
etc etc.

That's not even taking into account Joker would never have left Shep behind.

This, considering before the final battle he already expresses massive guilt over getting Shep killed the first time.

[Corrik Ronis]

Yeah that is still a major plot hole.

Hold the line.

[Coolfaec]

Don't even bother trying to rationalize it. EA butt-****ed everyone, they didn't need a reason.

[coolbeans]

nevar00 wrote...

- Relay travel is instantaneous, he was not in the middle of anything but FTL
- Nobody knew what was going to happen, and even if something was going to happen it's still a stretch to think Joker would ditch everyone

The thing that pees me of about jokers escape is that: FTL is the only form of transit that would have given the travel time displayed in the cutscene (several seconds of frantic "flying") and Relay transit is the only form of transit that could reach a habital world outside of the Sol system.

Also Joker flee? this is the man who tried to go down with a quite clearly wrecked ship at the beginning of ME2, there is no way he would turn tail and book with shepherd still on the ground.

Depressingly I think the most likely thing is they wanted to show a relay tunnel collapsing for "coolness" but forgot they had established relay transit time is instantanous.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Assumptions. On top of that, why did the blue and green beam destroy the Normandy?

[coolbeans]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Assumptions. On top of that, why did the blue and green beam destroy the Normandy?

It was required so they could ram the "Adam and Eve" scenario down out throats.

[DarkShadow]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Please.

There's no logical reason for Harbinger to suddenly start to hunt the Normandy down when there's a much larger and more important battle going on. 

What I thought. Why attacking the Normandy? It's no threat at all. Shepard still alive at the beam, THAT is a threat. Harbinger wouldn't just ignore him. And yeah, he KNOWS Shepard is still alive, he's a GOT DAMN REAPER.

[Thorn Harvestar]

rudenotginger wrote...

No. Joker wouldn't abandon Shepard, even for EDI. No way. Nobody would have let him anyway, even EDI herself.

[Dance Craze]

If the Normandy is destroyed, then EDI is destroyed anyway... Her hardware is inside of it. She must have died regardless.

[blah64]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Yeah... Joker would totally stay for Shepard rather than the 30+ lives on the Normandy.

Especially after staying got Shepard killed in the first game.

Rather, he should've just dropped everyone off on Earth.

No one on that crew would have run away from the final battle. Period. It's just not in their character.

[Dance Craze]

We must also remember that all of your squadmates were on Earth... How'd they get back on the Normandy anyway?

[SimKoning]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Giguelingueling wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

The actual lines were:

"did we get anyone to the beam?"
"Negative, our entire force was decimated"
"We need to regroup"
"Hammer has been WIPED OUT all forces RETREAT"

Even that make no sense, this is it. The battle for earth is the last chance they have to beat the reaper, period. There's no retreat possible it's now or never, period. They don't have the luxury to retreat 

I don't even think those are the ACTUAL lines.   I recall the radio call saying something like "Fall back to the buildings."

Akin to a regroup order.  You know, to make another run at the beam?  Shepard isn't the only one who can activate the Crucible (as far as anyone knows).  They just need ONE person to make it.  [Evidence: everyone running for the beam.]

Making an attempt while Harbinger is standing there is suicide evidently but Harbinger wasn't standing around guarding the beam forever.  [Evidence:  Harbinger flying away like a doofus.]

And even if Harbinger was going to stand around, they still needed to try.  As pointed out above: an actual retreat order makes no sense.  Where would they retreat to?  And why?  

A soldier says fall back to the buildings and regroup, but then another officer responds by saying that they have been wiped out and to retreat. 

DarkShadow wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
Please.

There's no logical reason for Harbinger to suddenly start to hunt the Normandy down when there's a much larger and more important battle going on. 

What I thought. Why attacking the Normandy? It's no threat at all. Shepard still alive at the beam, THAT is a threat. Harbinger wouldn't just ignore him. And yeah, he KNOWS Shepard is still alive, he's a GOT DAMN REAPER.

It's possible for someones heart to stop, or nearly stop for a short time and they still survive. So, I wouldn't be surprised if Shepard, being basically a borderline zombie cyborg, was clinically dead for a while. BTW, is everyone forgetting that the Normandy took out a Collector ship? 

Modifié par SimKoning, 26 mars 2012 - 02:18 .

[MOIST N FLUFFY]

I just figured he was running from the mass relay explosion, much like the rest of the ships probably would have tried. It explodes out by Pluto and that gives him time to punch the ship into FTL speeds. How he and my squad hooked up I don't know.

[jumpingkaede]

SimKoning wrote...

A soldier says fall back to the buildings and regroup, but then another officer responds by saying that they have been wiped out and to retreat. 

I'd need to rewatch the scene but that definitely wasn't the impression that I got.  I don't even remember hearing the word "retreat" since that would've made no sense.  

Not denying it though.  I just don't remember.