522 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

Well to reiterate my oppinion.

I don't need nudity and I don't think it should be in eg. a mass effect game without reason. If bioware makes a "Boys/Girls on trampolines" game sure! ...

For a mass effect game there could be nudity if it's to add depth or emotion to an ingame relationship with a fitting scene.

You mean liek when Traynor is in the shower or during the endless amount of romance scenes? My honest opinion throughout this debate has been that it shouldn't be included for the hell of it but to add depth to certain scenes where it is more realistic for the character to be nude then it is for them to wear there lingerie style underwear. I don't need a nipple shot or a scene of Shepard licking Miranda's clitoris but why does Liara have a nude scene and not say Ashley or Tali? If your going to do scenes where wearing underwear just makes it awkward to watch then don't do the scenes. Simple as that.

Tali doesn't have a nude scene because she never had a design for under the mask. Once Bioware made the decision to use a photoshopped stock photo for Tali's face, they had no option but to fade to black with Tali's romance scene.

They should probably have used a little implied nudity with Ashley though, like they did with Liara. But even so I think Ashley's romance scene is one of the better ones in the game, it just isn't as good as Liara's.

[78stonewobble]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...
You mean liek when Traynor is in the shower or during the endless amount of romance scenes? My honest opinion throughout this debate has been that it shouldn't be included for the hell of it but to add depth to certain scenes where it is more realistic for the character to be nude then it is for them to wear there lingerie style underwear. I don't need a nipple shot or a scene of Shepard licking Miranda's clitoris but why does Liara have a nude scene and not say Ashley or Tali? If your going to do scenes where wearing underwear just makes it awkward to watch then don't do the scenes. Simple as that.

I'm not sure on exactly where and when... It would depend on the storywriter to have a decent scene and then the graphics department whether it can be done decently (quality wise) say. neck up or from the hips up. Something like that. Well presumably like every other cutscene.



On the subject of nudity as a whole... We accept "topless" men don't we?

It's pretty much the same and in some disturbing cases just as much same....

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 27 mars 2012 - 09:16 .

[kalle90]

Tirigon wrote...

StephanieBengal wrote...

Weirdos

Really?

Well I think that not liking portrayal of beautiful nudity is a lot weirder than liking it. But to each their own.

"Beautiful"

None of the nudity scenes in games have been actually "beautiful" IMO. They just don't live up to any believability which makes me cringe. Blocky pixels, voices from a phone service and all that.

You could say that the violence in games has never been realistic and that is the charm of it. If it actually was realistic it would be just disgusting and turn off from gaming. The same way nudity has never been realistic, but it's the opposite of violence in that more realism would only be welcomed.

But I don't see how games can turn it into anything but Kroganlike "very clumsily" scene. I prefer when it just fades out or turns the camera away because atleast that doesn't ruin the image. Atleast the clothed scenes we got leaves something up to imagination and makes the scenes seem more like playing around than anything else.

[TheMightyG00sh]

@kalle90

I won't start another quote pyramid as those things are damn annoying but to your points:

1. Han Shot said it himelf. Liara's sex scene was the best and that only had implied nudity. You don't need a faceful of penetration scenes but simple implication that they are at least nude adds to the moment, deepening it.

2. Whilst violence isn't realistic it is in fact worse than on the front lines. Granted that there are no overly disgusting scenes and not a large amount of deaths (and that scene where Shepard kills KL with the Renegade Interrupt has GOT To be the least real thing I've ever scene) it is in fact much worse in that the world is in chaos, trapped in a war with machines that "huskify" and mind**** humanity into killing each other. Honestly I'd rather be on the front line facing the taliban than have a Banshees teleporting toward me. In real life Mass Effect 3 would be the most scary thing in the world.

3. As stated before Liara's scene was very well done and I connect with her more because of it then I do with other romance options, partly because 80% of romance never got a romance scene or any kind of closure. (Thane, Garrus, Tali, Jacob etc.).

The fade to black on Tali's was acceptable yes but if they were going to use a third rate stock photoshop why not just go the extra mile an pay that money to an artist from anywhere on the internet. Honestly there is a wild range of fan made face concepts all of which were orders of magnitude better than her in game one. Also for Tali's scene I'd find it more sensual if she linked suits with Shepard (if that was possible) than for her to mindlessly strip naked endangering herself.

[Kajan451]

chengthao wrote...

b/c of FOX's stupid report on them 5 years ago

Nah,

i rather suspect it has something todo with EA. ME1 was already done when EA bought Bioware, so its was unlikely to change. If you take a look at Dragon Age as well, you can see them getting "tamer" by each title they release.

And after all there is a reason titles like Bonecraft are rather shunned by more "serious" distribution plattforms and publishers.

I mean, really could you imagine a game like Bonetown or its sequel being released with an EA logo on it? Wouldn't that kind of destroy their family image? Selling Death is after all more acceptable than love in some countries of this world.

I actually think to remember there was something about EA and Sierra because of Leisure Suit Larry. Its been ages, though and my memory doesn't serve me as well that far back anymore. Many of the big publisher have the more "open minded" (for a lack of a better word), squashed as soon as they take over the smaller studios.

Ubisoft did it with Biing, Activision did it with Larry.

Eroge games are rather rare to comeby in the western market and.. lets face it. It's not going to change.


That said, while i do enjoy erotic humor as employed by some Anime and Manga, i am perfectly happy with fade to black in most Action Movies. If i take the Watchman Movie for example, it annoyed me to no end to suffer through that eloborate lovesequence between owl and spectre.

I prefer stuff to have its place. When i am in the mood for boobies, i am watching stuff with boobies, when i am in the mood for action, i am watching an action movie or playing some action videogame. But i don't particularily like when stuff does mix.


When it comes to Mass Effect however, i am missing the pillow talk in ME3. So yeah, it could have been a bit more skin, or at least pillow talk. Don't need to see them doing it tho, thank you.

[kalle90]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...

@kalle90

I won't start another quote pyramid as those things are damn annoying but to your points:

1. Han Shot said it himelf. Liara's sex scene was the best and that only had implied nudity. You don't need a faceful of penetration scenes but simple implication that they are at least nude adds to the moment, deepening it.

2. Whilst violence isn't realistic it is in fact worse than on the front lines. Granted that there are no overly disgusting scenes and not a large amount of deaths (and that scene where Shepard kills KL with the Renegade Interrupt has GOT To be the least real thing I've ever scene) it is in fact much worse in that the world is in chaos, trapped in a war with machines that "huskify" and mind**** humanity into killing each other. Honestly I'd rather be on the front line facing the taliban than have a Banshees teleporting toward me. In real life Mass Effect 3 would be the most scary thing in the world.

1. I just didn't get that. IMO it just looked fake and the implied nudity made it worse. Atleast with Ash it's possible to think they're just playing around, which is "fake" so it doesn't look so out of place. To me the love scene with Liara was as believable as Shepard screaming "STEVEE!"

2. I call that horror or suspense, enemy is superior and merciless, plus looks very threatening. What I mean by realistic violence is that a random explosion could blow Liara's hand apart and you'd see her bleeding out rapidly or someone shooting a bullet to someone's head instantly killing him with a bleak look on his eyes... Mass Effect isn't exactly the best case to talk about realistic violence, but I'd expect Brutes and Banshees to be able to kill people like in Dead Space (Dead Space doesn't seem realistic either but with alien monsters the rules of normal realism don't really apply), but all the violence seems very clean and unnerving. There is nothing visual, just imaginational.

And that laser, which just scratches Shepard all over his body... But this is off-topic.

[Toyou4you]

There shouldn't be nudity in my opinion. Mass Effect 3 isn't that type of game, the Witcher 2 is, but not Mass Effect 3.

[TheMightyG00sh]

Toyou4you wrote...

There shouldn't be nudity in my opinion. Mass Effect 3 isn't that type of game, the Witcher 2 is, but not Mass Effect 3.

Then don't bother with Sex/Shower Scenes or Romance in general.

[chengthao]

Kajan451 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

b/c of FOX's stupid report on them 5 years ago

Nah,

i rather suspect it has something to do with EA. ME1 was already done when EA bought Bioware, so its was unlikely to change. If you take a look at Dragon Age as well, you can see them getting "tamer" by each title they release.

true but i believe FOX influenced EA to tame BW

also there are other games out there with nudity . . . Heavy Rain (it even has an interactive sex scene), God of War, The Witcher 2

[Gimpy74]

Only difference i can see would be that one game is made in north America and the other in Europe.
We in Europe is in theory not very happy about shoting and killing stuff but we have no problem with naked men/women. It's the opposite in the US. Or so i'm told

Modifié par Gimpy74, 27 mars 2012 - 10:36 .

[Wolf]

 I think this is incredibly weird as well. I would have liked something tasteful. Something that was there because it made sense in context, not just because "lolBEWBS".

I've reffered to The Witcher 2 as a very well done and mature way to go about it in other threads.

Hope Bioware improve on this in future projects.

[TheMightyG00sh]

kalle90 wrote...

TheMightyG00sh wrote...

Pyramid quote

1. I just didn't get that. IMO it just looked fake and the implied nudity made it worse. Atleast with Ash it's possible to think they're just playing around, which is "fake" so it doesn't look so out of place. To me the love scene with Liara was as believable as Shepard screaming "STEVEE!"

2. I call that horror or suspense, enemy is superior and merciless, plus looks very threatening. What I mean by realistic violence is that a random explosion could blow Liara's hand apart and you'd see her bleeding out rapidly or someone shooting a bullet to someone's head instantly killing him with a bleak look on his eyes... Mass Effect isn't exactly the best case to talk about realistic violence, but I'd expect Brutes and Banshees to be able to kill people like in Dead Space (Dead Space doesn't seem realistic either but with alien monsters the rules of normal realism don't really apply), but all the violence seems very clean and unnerving. There is nothing visual, just imaginational.

And that laser, which just scratches Shepard all over his body... But this is off-topic.

I have to agree with the pure fact that realism would denature the the overall  combat mechanics and story of the games. Realism in violence  is a non issue though as the whole thing is overlooked because it isn't overly awkward. All games remove you from a world of a somewhat boring life and puts you on the front line of a war which is overexaggerated.

HOWEVER   this isn't an awkward thing as only a small portion of the playerbase have actually experienced the kind of violence in real life whereas ALL of the playerbase has been nude and most of the playerbase will know about sex and those that don't will be better to learn about it tastefully through gaming then they would from an accidental google search.

[Kajan451]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...

those that don't will be better to learn about it tastefully through gaming then they would from an accidental google search.

Of those two options, if they'd be the only one my kid could learn about sex. I'd choose the accidental google search for my child.

Those searchs might instil unreasonable expectations and opinions about the whole matter. But chances are my son would be so repelled by those images he wouldn't even want to think about it for some time. And if not, at least i could be reliefed he wouldn't end up with some complex about being nude or how evil it is.

I mean seriously, most of the internet stuff, even if its fun doing it yourself, is utterly revolting on tape.


But does it really need to be taken this far? I like a funny game with erotic humor as much as the next guy, and i like how games like the Witcher break the mold and deliver an adult game thats not just about killing. I mean i thought it was really cool to actually offer a hot chick to help her for sex and not for gold coins or fame for a change. Really underlined the Antihero character of Gerald.

But even so, i think a tasteful fade to black doesn't hurt at all. Then again... as said Bioware becomes more tame with every installment they release. Soon we will probably see Lovescenes of the caliber as seen in "The Sims" in the near future.

I'd like to see more adult themes in video games in general, but i don't need to have porn. Then again, when i am looking across the pond to our american friends and see how much outrage the liara scene in ME1 produced... i am not so sure we have the same definition of porn. Most of our showergel commercials have more porn than the whole ME series combined presented.

[Han Shot First]

I've reffered to The Witcher 2 as a very well done and mature way to go about it in other threads.

I like the Witcher 2, but have to disagree. I think the Witcher's sex scenes, while having nudity, are geared more towards teenaged boys than adults. Mass Effect 1's sex scenes are a better example of nudity being shown in a mature way.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 27 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[TheMightyG00sh]

To clarify one final time they don't need an all out sex scene like in Witcher or Heavy Rain but there is no reason why a M rated game couldn't include a little boob in scenes like Traynor and Shep being in the shower. Ashley/Shep doesn't need one so I wouldn't want to see one there and I woudl rather see a simple suit link betwen Shepard and Tali (given the important of this act in quarian culture) but other stuff like Traynor's scene would be amplified by simple scene simialr to that of Liara's scene. Also if ANY THER CHARACTER FROM ME2 got a SINGLE scene or romantic story arc it would be much better. 80% of LIs were ignored in ME3 whilst Liara got all those lovey dovey lines and a deep, sensual and great sex scene that helped me connect with her. Traynor's was just... awkward.

[Wolf]

Han Shot First wrote...

I've reffered to The Witcher 2 as a very well done and mature way to go about it in other threads.

I like the Witcher 2, but have to disagree. I think the Witcher's sex scenes, while having nudity, are geared more towards teenaged boys than adults. Mass Effect 1's sex scenes are a better example of nudity being shown in a mature way.

There wasn't any nudity there though. Only the alusion to nudity.

Modifié par Gaiden96, 28 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[TheMightyG00sh]

Gaiden96 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I've reffered to The Witcher 2 as a very well done and mature way to go about it in other threads.

I like the Witcher 2, but have to disagree. I think the Witcher's sex scenes, while having nudity, are geared more towards teenaged boys than adults. Mass Effect 1's sex scenes are a better example of nudity being shown in a mature way.

There wasn't any nudity there though. Only the ilusion of it.

Uhh... no an illusion is tricking the mind into thinking something else happened whilst in reality it didn't. Mass Effect 1 and Liara's Mass Effect 3 did use nude models just because it is isn't full frontal doesn't mean it isn't nude.

Modifié par TheMightyG00sh, 28 mars 2012 - 12:01 .

[Han Shot First]

Gaiden96 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I've reffered to The Witcher 2 as a very well done and mature way to go about it in other threads.

I like the Witcher 2, but have to disagree. I think the Witcher's sex scenes, while having nudity, are geared more towards teenaged boys than adults. Mass Effect 1's sex scenes are a better example of nudity being shown in a mature way.

There wasn't any nudity there though. Only the ilusion of it.

In Mass Effect 1?

There is nudity in ME1's sex scenes. Depending on who your character romances, you either see Liara, Ashley, or Fem Sheps backside.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 mars 2012 - 12:06 .

[Wolf]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...

Uhh... no an illusion is tricking the mind into thinking something else happened whilst in reality it didn't. Mass Effect 1 and Liara's Mass Effect 3 did use nude models just because it is isn't full frontal doesn't mean it isn't nude.

Whoops, meant to say alusion to nudity. GRAMMAR FAIL

Modifié par Gaiden96, 28 mars 2012 - 12:29 .

[Tirigon]

78stonewobble wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Time spent on nipples is never wasted.

Best line all day on these forums...

Thanks

[Tirigon]

kalle90 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

StephanieBengal wrote...

Weirdos

Really?

Well I think that not liking portrayal of beautiful nudity is a lot weirder than liking it. But to each their own.

"Beautiful"

None of the nudity scenes in games have been actually "beautiful" IMO. They just don't live up to any believability which makes me cringe. Blocky pixels, voices from a phone service and all that.

You could say that the violence in games has never been realistic and that is the charm of it. If it actually was realistic it would be just disgusting and turn off from gaming. The same way nudity has never been realistic, but it's the opposite of violence in that more realism would only be welcomed.

But I don't see how games can turn it into anything but Kroganlike "very clumsily" scene. I prefer when it just fades out or turns the camera away because atleast that doesn't ruin the image. Atleast the clothed scenes we got leaves something up to imagination and makes the scenes seem more like playing around than anything else.

Of course beauty is in the eye of the Beholder.

Personally, though, I am not afraid to admit that I find Liara beautiful.

[spirosz]

If that scene has emotion flowing through it and is appropriate with whichever relationship shown, then I could care less if there is skin or not, this whole mindset of skin = more mature boggles my mind. I could relate that to Jack's scene, her scene had a lot of emotion going through it and it was right for WHO she is and what their relationships means; no sex and ending in a calm cuddled state, just being there for each other and embracing each other (while not rushing or forcing anything upon her, which is important).

Now in the case with Traynor, that was just done awkwardly, it would of been a nice scene, but because of the clothing, it seemed off, IMO. Look at Liara's scene in ME3, which was done in such a beautiful way. The different camera angles, the way the two were intertwined with each other, Liara glowing with her Biotics was a nice touch as well, the whole scene just fit their relationship, which is the most important aspect when doing a romance scene.

[Aesieru]

Getorex wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

safrrr wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

safrrr wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Fox. 5 years ago. Nuff' said.

Seriously, Americans have this weird thing about nudity.

ya, america is the biggest porn producer of the world, they even have hooters and playboy, yet somehow they try to shun all the nudity out of games and books and public places...americans are a crazy type of people.

Crazy eh? Next time you want our passive and active defense and technology and guaranteed defense from our military we'll remember that we're just "crazy" to you, and ignore you.

As far as i know, we europeans are better than americans. About everything is. They are no longer the technical marvel everyone looked up to. China owns half of u guys right? So why dont u guys keep playing soldier boy in iraq, afghanistan and pretty sure iran in the future too and let us deal with our own problems. America wouldnt last a day on its own.

Do you have 11 aircraft carriers (3 more to be constructed by end of 2012) that are each as powerful as the 7th most powerful nation?

HUH HUH?!

Do you have a nuclear missile anti-missile defensive system? Do ya?

Oh... no you don't.

---

I've yet to see cigars be added to the game yet, so no nudity until they do!

The reason I want cigars added is to replace all the nasty space-cigarettes everywhere in the damn ship and game, and to have camaraderie, rather than cancer.

Ah..I see, you work for PhillipMorris.  Cigars are not benign, just like spatin' weed isn't benign.  Not wanting to derail the thread into a thread on the facts of burning tobacco and the carcinogens that it spews (whether you inhale or puff).

E-cigs are WAY safer than either cigs or chew or cigars or pipes.  No combustion, virtually no carcinogens.

Your statements are actually false, especially since you don't inhale the other forms. If you actually looked at the research actually done, not the statements posted on websites, you'd see that the only thing bad is either inhaling, or the big-evil that we all already know of.

And no, I don't work for PM.

If I sold cigars I'd probably have to work for Altadis, though obviously numerous others exist, but I don't work for them either.

Also cigars and pipes don't have carcinogens, those are added, you know.

[Alien1099]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Fox. 5 years ago. Nuff' said.

Seriously, Americans have this weird thing about nudity.

As an American, yes I don't understand it. Inconsistency with profanity is another one I don't understand. This is a discussion forum for a relatively violent game where the characters utter profane words with some regularity and even has sex scenes, yet you are not able to see me utter even the word that describes a female dog, ****.