288 réponses à ce sujet

[Trentgamer]

Joeybsmooth4 wrote...

Phobius9 wrote...

We haven't experienced the ending of ME3 yet, just the penultimate chapter. Whatever DLC comes after ME3 will be the ending proper. Once that's done, people can judge the Mass Effect series for all it's worth, but drawing conclusions about anything at the moment is like complaining Frodo never made it to Mordor having only ever read the first two Lord of the Rings.

That is even worse. We paid for a full game. We should geta full game.

You did get a full game. It just happened to end in a cliff hanger.

[Persephone]

Skelter192 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Also, I added to my post after you quoted it that CDP is working on some of the issues players raised with Act 3 of TW2 being too short. This is a good example to use when arguing for BW to fix ME3

4-6 hours of new content, 4 minutes of CGI going on, new intro and outro, bugfixes and more stuff for free. I really doubt EAware would allow that much content for free.

Calling them EAware isn't necessary. It's Bioware. Besides, Bioware did all that and more before they got big. I doubt CDP will stay this generous once they get up there. (If they do) Nothing against CDPR, I am merely skeptical, most companies simply change once they reach such a level.

[FedericoV]

I don't know if it has something to do with new forum rules, but fans have not been unfair with ME3 devs or Bioware in general regarding the ending issue. I'm not a fan of the series (just a regular player who happens to buy most Bioware titles) an I'm not so invested in the universe, so I think that my judgement is quite objective on that issue.

Fans have been really unfair with the DA2 team in my experience (the level of trolling in DA2 boards made all meaningfull comunication and constructive criticism about the game unrelevant). ME3's criticism has been even too civil in my view (EA/Bioware business plan about ME3 deserve much, much worse treatment).

The "endings" really sucked on an artistic and gaming level. They were really that terrible and the fact that the rest of the game is really good does not change the end unfortunately. I understand why so many people who have invested a lot of time and money on the franchise feel betrayed. I felt so when Lost ended. I felt so after Matrix Revolution. And I will feel that way if GRRM pulls out a ME when ASOIAF will be finished (in 2042 ).

Yes, the drama is too hyped but that's what happens when you treat your customers unfairly. If Bioware devs wants to be respected by their fans, they should learn again what it means for a company to respect his customers. It's not that hard: it's what they have allways done before EA cannibals came in to the picture and changed their company approach toward gamers.

Respect does not mean to "listen" passively: we are not a focus group that needs to be pleased. It does not mean to treat us like child, patronizing on the virtues of constructive criticms: we allready knew them. Our parents told us the lesson. It does not mean to make PR & damage control using "community managers". It means to treat the players of your game like individuals who are (mostly) intellingent and mature persons and that do not desired to be seen like compulsive cash-cows to squeeze money from.

Modifié par FedericoV, 26 mars 2012 - 07:21 .

[goatman42]

Flextt wrote...

It isn't a masterpiece because of the ending. It is an overall good game with a seriously flawed ending, both design- and content-wise. The ending could have been the icing of a tasty cake.
If Bioware doesn't act, for me ME will be the series "with that really bad ending"

Sadly it will never truely go away. Mass Effect should be remembered as a milestone in gaming, and I believe it will be, but there will always be that contraversy with the ending part that people will remember too.

[Omilophile]

spartan5127 wrote...

I don't think I've seen one person who hates the rest of the game because of the ending. What the ending does is retroactively make you not really care about the past. That is why people have trouble replaying the game because it feels meaningless in a game where everything you do seems meaningful.

Also, EA/bioware is a corporation, it has no feelings to be hurt. I have no sympathy towards them it has no sympathy towards us, but I have sympathy for the individuals. The thing the individuals need to understand is, this is not personal.

This sums it up perfectly.

[Chromie]

Persephone wrote...

Calling them EAware isn't necessary. It's Bioware. Besides, Bioware did all that and more before they got big. I doubt CDP will stay this generous once they get up there. (If they do) Nothing against CDPR, I am merely skeptical, most companies simply change once they reach such a level.

CDPR is already owned by a much larger company. I know Bioware has done some great stuff BEFORE being bought by EA so I will call them EAware.

Anyway since my other post seems to have gone unnoticed...

Persephone wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Persephone, the problems of the Witcher 2's story don't ****ing compare to the bull**** of Cerberus and the Catalyst, and don't you ****ing dare to compare them.

What compares to what depends on each and every individual's priorties. And why not compare them? Are those games sacrosanct? A feminist is more likely to be outraged at the sexist attitude presented in both Witcher games while I, a non feminist, don't care much about that.

CDPRojekt wanted the world to feel real. They succeed if a feminist can't handle that then they shouldn't play and obviously don't care how some of the more powerful people in the game are women.

Story wise Witcher 2 doesn't add bull**** and random elements in the story. The Wild Hunt which can be seen as the most otherworldly entity is given enough screentime for us to learn about it but the Starchild is just thrown in at the last minute. 

Frankly ME3's ending is like the Blade Runner's ending (the bad one) with Deckard driving in the country side. The whole film up to that point has been concerned with hero's with flaws and so to add happiness to the ending makes it too obvious. The shadyness of the real original ending (ie the one that ends outside the elevator) gives a final kick as the momementum is built up to create another plot line that can be constructed by the viewer as soon as the credits start rolling.

The same with ME3's ending it's too obvious Bioware was either trying to achieve "art" and some deeper meaning and it goes against everything Mass Effect was up to that point. 

Modifié par Skelter192, 26 mars 2012 - 07:22 .

[zfedaykin]

rgretret wrote...

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Bioware, because they made a highly emotional game after all and just because the ending was disappointing for most of us, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too.

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Players, because they paid more than 100 $ and 100 hours after all and just because 
they made a highly emotional game, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too. 

[Persephone]

Skelter192 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Calling them EAware isn't necessary. It's Bioware. Besides, Bioware did all that and more before they got big. I doubt CDP will stay this generous once they get up there. (If they do) Nothing against CDPR, I am merely skeptical, most companies simply change once they reach such a level.

CDPR is already owned by a much larger company. I know Bioware has done some great stuff BEFORE being bought by EA so I will call them EAware.

They are still Bioware, name calling them is pointless.

Bioware also did some great stuff with EA involved. ME3 is their best game yet IMO. They can come around on this. And give CDPR time. Takes years for that...effect...to settle in.

[LeftyLike2]

Persephone wrote...

LeftyLike2 wrote...

I agree that some are really unfair towards them..some even hostile..

But i think there are also alot of people that can discuss it rationally, rather than just calling people stupid for not seeing this or that, or calling Mass Effect's writers dumb even without knowing if there is more to the ending..(let's say the indoctrination theory is true) they might have made one of the most memorable endings ever.

If they had reveled that it was idoctrination right after you make your choice, you would reload, and chose the "right" choice.

I don't know if the indoctrination theory is true or if they have another clever ending in store, OR if this is it, and they didn't originally have any plans on releasing any post-ending DLC.
I don't know, and neither does the people who judge Bioware.

I will judge when i have seen everything..
even then - even if the ending is still dissapointing - i won't swear never to buy bioware games ever again and write novels about how horrible the writers are. They wrote what they think is a good ending, i just happen to disagree.


So..instead of giving them a hard time about the ending..i will forget the last 15 minutes of my Mass Effect experience, and thank them for the previous hundreds of hours, thank you.

tl;dr
I spent how long on this, and you didn't even spend 30 seconds reading it!?

Read it all. Well said!

In fear of writing for too long (again) i'll just say:
Thank you!

[Silmane]

Trentgamer wrote...

Joeybsmooth4 wrote...

Phobius9 wrote...

We haven't experienced the ending of ME3 yet, just the penultimate chapter. Whatever DLC comes after ME3 will be the ending proper. Once that's done, people can judge the Mass Effect series for all it's worth, but drawing conclusions about anything at the moment is like complaining Frodo never made it to Mordor having only ever read the first two Lord of the Rings.

That is even worse. We paid for a full game. We should geta full game.

You did get a full game. It just happened to end in a cliff hanger.

I wouldn't call ME3 a full game by a long shot.

[lyssalu]

well i didn't like 2/3s of it so what can you do

[AngryFrozenWater]

ME1's story is straight forward, but because of the mystery slowly unfolding and the crew members being a part of it in one way or another, made me prefer this title over the other ones. In ME2 the story starts to go downhill right from the start. The only reason Shepard dies is to reset his level to 1. He then becomes part of an organization he is opposed to and who didn't do anything smart before. Instead of reapers we fight collectors there, because let's face it, even BW must have thought that reapers were too strong. In ME3 BW didn't have a solution for the overpowered reapers, so they added the dream stuff, ended it with a dialogue and a big bang by blowing up all mass relays. Of course this would, according to the codex, destroy intelligent live in a stellar system and thus all current civilizations and kill the space opera. To top it off, none of the decisions made earlier in any of the games have impact in the end. Blowing up the mass relays ensured that. Even if the player destroys the reapers they have won because of that. All in the name of Art.

If this is art then I rather be a culture barbarian than an art lover.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 26 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[Chromie]

Persephone wrote...
. Takes years for that...effect...to settle in.

Well I'm not concerned with them in the future because I have no idea what the higher ups are doing. They could be the next Obsidian for all we know. 

[Persephone]

Skelter192 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
. Takes years for that...effect...to settle in.

Well I'm not concerned with them in the future because I have no idea what the higher ups are doing. They could be the next Obsidian for all we know. 

I have HIGH hopes re: CDPR. They haven't disappointed me all that much yet.

[TheLastAwakening]

I just want to be able to replay Mass Effect.

[Slashice]

All of the BioWare employees have my deepest respect. Except Hudson and Walters, they were the ones responsible for screwing the ending of such a great game (last hours app...). I was never thrilled about the comics made by Walters but I wasn't expecting such a... meh... ending.

Tho I admit that Hudson did a great job by leading the grp responsible for ME and Walters's previous work on the stories. But after learning that they're the responsible for the ending I've just lost my small faith in them. But not in BioWare. BioWare is still a great company with so much talented and amazing people. They deserve respect!

[tkdrobert]

The internet has changed our society, People think it's totally acceptable to be abusive when there are no consequences. I have been following both sides of the debate here and for the most part, I tune out any comments that are abusive and/or obnoxious (or just roll my eyes). I have seen some very intelligent posts on both sides and those are the ones I pay attention to. I'm betting the same goes for Bioware.

Also, I have written some short stories, acted in some small plays, and I work in a scientific discipline. I know what it's like to have your work critiqued. When you post your dissatisfaction, try to think about how you would feel if someone wrote that about your work. You have every right to critique the game's ending, but there is no need to be cruel. And if you think the makers of this game are not taking the criticism to heart, you aren't being real.

[AngryFrozenWater]

tkdrobert wrote...

The internet has changed our society, People think it's totally acceptable to be abusive when there are no consequences. I have been following both sides of the debate here and for the most part, I tune out any comments that are abusive and/or obnoxious (or just roll my eyes). I have seen some very intelligent posts on both sides and those are the ones I pay attention to. I'm betting the same goes for Bioware.

Also, I have written some short stories, acted in some small plays, and I work in a scientific discipline. I know what it's like to have your work critiqued. When you post your dissatisfaction, try to think about how you would feel if someone wrote that about your work. You have every right to critique the game's ending, but there is no need to be cruel. And if you think the makers of this game are not taking the criticism to heart, you aren't being real.

There is also an advantage to the internet. Not only does one meet abusive trolls, one also encounters smart people. So, BW has to face the fact that some of those people see right through their booboos.

[Fossilll406]

Hmm generally the bashing is focused tho...People are highlighting that their concern is with the end of the trilogy. Personally ME3 is one of the best games I have played to date. They hit the mark with dialog, characters, combat got better in ME3, settings of missions where great, lots of moments with real emotion. It had the making of the greatest emotionally captivating game I have ever played. So for that Bioware lived up to their name. To who they are as a company.

But...

The end was horrible and unrelated to what ME has shown us so far. It's just the end that is badly put together. Now it is an unknown what steps they will take next. This mistake may show in the bottom line in the future.

Sure there are people doing some crazy things...being rude and outlandish, mainly coz they are upset that they did not receive what they where promised. Closure to a awesome ride that is the ME universe. That is no excuse. But to be fair, there are a lot of people being constructive, discussing, theorizing, investing time looking for any info on what will happen next. When someone finds something new they bring it to the forums...Its a Community. So while there are people being unfair...there are alot of others who support Bioware. Hell, we all do, that's why we are here. We just want to know what went wrong and if anything will be set right.

[rgretret]

This is exactly how I think about this!

[FedericoV]

tkdrobert wrote...

Also, I have written some short stories, acted in some small plays, and I work in a scientific discipline. I know what it's like to have your work critiqued. When you post your dissatisfaction, try to think about how you would feel if someone wrote that about your work. You have every right to critique the game's ending, but there is no need to be cruel. And if you think the makers of this game are not taking the criticism to heart, you aren't being real.

Games are not like plays, scientific papers or books. They are the result of the work of many different persons with different levels of responsibilities. AAA games are run like seriouz business. We are not talking of indie titles like Limbo or The Dark Descent here. If you really believe that they do care about anything but the loss in term of potential earnings you are the one who's acting unreal. I respect your empathy but I believe it's out of place in many ways.

The criticism at the very end is aimed at the persons who are in charge and at the bad pratices that have breaken the long relation of trust that has allways been in place between Bioware and his fans before EA came in to the picture.

[Dragoonlordz]

I see alot recently of people relying on comparing to literary masterpeices and flaws.

Where they see a literary failure, I see an enjoyable game and emotional success.Where they bought it for conclusion to the trilogy, I bought it game to continue the story of the previous two I bought. Where they bought it for these so called 16 endings, I bought it knowing would have an ending of which it did just some people do not like that ending.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[Siansonea]

I think it is important to call them on it when they screw up. I WISH people had been this vocal about the story problems in ME2, but the silence in that regard was deafening. All in all I'd say ME3's story is very much superior to ME2, even with the railroad plot wreckage at the end. But even within the framework of what happens in ME3 before the ending, the entire plot of ME2 was completely pointless. Stopping the Collectors didn't turn out to be the big deal it was made out to be. ME2 essentially boils down to Shepard dying because Joker is a huge douche, Shepard being resurrected by the Illusive Man so he could send him on all sorts of wild-goose-chase errands with the endgame of acquiring some technology that he probably could have gotten by other means. If he had the technology to build an Even Stealthier Normandy, then he could have built all sorts of stealthy probes that could have attached themselves to Collector ships, and he could have done all sorts of things with such probes. Especially if they incorporated EDI tech. But yeah, it's much better to resurrect a dead Alliance Marine/sworn enemy and cajole them into recruiting a bunch of aliens to serve an anti-alien agenda. Makes perfect sense. And look at that, in ME3 the Illusive Man is your sworn enemy, no matter conciliatory you were or were not toward him in ME2. Makes perfect sense.

So yeah, as bad as the last 5 minutes of ME3 was, pretty much all of ME2 was worse.

[Promchek]

Just came out of "Hunger Games", and i have lot's of speculations after it, but still do not feel depressed.