288 réponses à ce sujet

[Silasqtx]

I'm reserving judgement until I hear from them at PAX. Then I'll decide.

[ZombifiedJake]

No, it's perfectly fine.

[Evil_medved]

Nope. They want respect, they should deliver high quality entertainment, not rage/disappointment/depression.

[gmdinmd]

rgretret wrote...

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Bioware, because they made a highly emotional game after all and just because the ending  was disappointing for most of us, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too.

No.  It's becoming clearer that indoctrination was the story of the game, and instead of the conclusion to the series, this is the setup to the end.  That means that this was planned all along ... its tantamount to a bait and switch.  If a big DLC is coming that wraps up the game to fan expectations that is free, fine.   Otherwise this is a bait and switch.

It was not a masterpiece of a game.  It was a good shooter with some very good story lines but it was completely 'on rails' with slight deviations and barely an RPG as we know it.

Quite frankly the outbursts and backlash is indicitive of how upset the user base was.  If the ending was so bad that it ruined the game replayability and experience of the user then it was a bad game, period.  If BioWare can't handle the criticism they are in the wrong business. 

[Clayless]

pjotroos wrote...

rgretret wrote...

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Bioware, because they made a highly emotional game after all and just because the ending was disappointing for most of us, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too.

Uh-huh. And you think we would get anywhere if we all just wrote "I thought the game was absolute masterpiece aside from this wee little issue at the end of the game when the plotholes, railroaded story and ridiculous deus ex machina crushed the universe, turned the story into nihillistic nonsense, killed the replayability value and made me feel genuinely depressed for longer than any game, movie or book should"?

People are so enraged because we care about their universe. Nobody would care if the story was horrible from start to finish. The very issue is they were so close to finishing the game perfectly. All they had to do is end the game at the point where crucible is connected to the citadel and then provide 16 varied outros based on our EMS and resolution of Tuchanka and Rannoch. Literally all they had to do is not fix what's not broken. Instead they decided to be devilishly clever with their higher power and laugh in our faces with rendering all the previous progress pointless. They deliberately made the rest of the tale irrelevant to the three choices the kid offers you. They made it possible to get exact same ending for someone who played full paragon for three games, someone who played full renegade, and someone who just bought part three, played the bare minimum and then got his rating up on iPad or in multiplayer.

In short, they played a long con. They kept the illusion that our choices matter for three games straight, up until the last moment. Then they flipped us a bird for no reason whatsoever. And that's not something I'm gonna take kindly. Sorry.

Explain to me the difference in the end of ME2? If you play full paragon, full renegade, or just jump back ad forth, but you all pick save the base, what's the difference?

[NoCandy4U]

What we heard: All of your questions will be answered at the end!

What we got: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!

[ThePanzer99]

No, I think unfair is when a dev team says "you will not get an ending that consists of A, B, or C" and then makes an ending that does exactly that.

Also I'm sick to death of concern trolls having fainting spells about how "mean" biowares been treated. The BSN community has thousands of pages of people being assertive but firm with bioware. Being a doormat to a company only invites them to treat you like more of a doormat.

[pjotroos]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Explain to me the difference in the end of ME2? If you play full paragon, full renegade, or just jump back ad forth, but you all pick save the base, what's the difference?

Play the bare minimum and you won't save your full crew - i.e. the very people you care about. Play your game however you like in ME3, the crew always gets stranded on Gilligan Planet.

However, ME2 still didn't provide enough variety in the end, but the ending didn't undo your choices at least. They also owned up to that, and said that was because they needed fairly similar entry point for ME3. They said that since ME3 is the end of the trilogy, that exact thing won't happen. Also, all your major choices from ME1 and ME2 play out in ME3, more or less. The council, the virmire survivor, the genophage cure to name the biggest. You don't have that feeling with ME3 because outro doesn't reflect that for one thing, and for another, the magnitute of that single choice you're presented with far outweights any prior choices.

[wantedman dan]

rgretret wrote...

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Bioware, because they made a highly emotional game after all and just because the ending was disappointing for most of us, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too.

It's a good sentiment but in all honesty, if the resolution completely and abjectly ruins the experience, the masterpiece is ruined. 

[Frozen83]

If I deliver a perfectry written paper to the journal with a lot of bull in it, they won't tell me "yeah, the science inside is crap, but it is so beautifly written that we will pubish it" but rather point out the flaws and encourage me to do it better. So no, the feedback is a must to improve the product. M.

Modifié par Frozen83, 26 mars 2012 - 04:15 .

[Red Dust]

Bioware is not a person. Bioware is a company. A company that surrendered its face and relationship with the fans when it became a part of EA. There is no "kindness" with a company, there is only business. These days, the only people passionate about EA's product "Mass Effect" is the fans. It's nickles and dimes to to EA/Bioware. That's it and that's all. So that's the language the fans need to speak if there's to be any communication.

Speak with your wallet. Stop buying their product.

[Coolfaec]

[Inappropriate post removed, user baned.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 26 mars 2012 - 04:35 .

[Blackbear2106]

Naltair wrote...

nhsknudsen wrote...

If you treat your child nicely up untill age 14 it still doesn't excuse killing it on its 15 birthday.

This is a rather extreme and unfair metaphor.

Pretty much feel like that, haven't played it once again ever since that horrible ending:(

[Clayless]

pjotroos wrote...

stuff

Nevermind it turns out a bunch of people said they get everything they deserve in the time it took for me to quote that.

So far the Retake movement has been using deceit, wanting to sue Bioware, giving the game 0/10, comparing it
to getting their mother raped, comparing it to killing their children, wanting people to be fired, calling for the company to collapse, making threads about how to get your money back that's full of praise and support, demanding their money back from a charity and forcing it to change it's rules, the list goes on and on.


Even better is this thread shows that a lot of them thinks Bioware deserves this treatment.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 26 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[SilencedScream]

pjotroos wrote...

In short, they played a long con. They kept the illusion that our choices matter for three games straight, up until the last moment. Then they pulled a downer ending out of their hat for no reason whatsoever (other than a publicity stunt, appearantly). And that's not something I'm gonna take kindly. Sorry.

This sums it up perfectly.
We bought into the series on the promise of having our choices matter.
When ME2 was released, a lot of people were upset because little seemed to matter (quite a number of people were put off by the "emails"). But Bioware told us to wait - it wasn't the final chapter, where everything would come to fruition.

So we continued purchasing their products. We bought ME2 DLC. We bought Arrival SEPARATELY (which is essential, if you want to understand ME2->ME3).

And then we bought ME3. It started to seem like things mattered - Wrex was there or wasn't. Maelon's research data paved the way for the genophage cure. Prior interaction with Legion helped the outcome for the geth/quarians. The rachni queen (even if it killed) is still there, however (being a Cerberus clone...basically so that it wasn't a waste of space on disc for those who killed her).

We built up our forces. We gathered our emails. We calculated our war asset numbers - though we weren't sure why FLEETS could be worth 40 when a single character was worth 25. And then we launched the final assault. We didn't fight alongside any of these people (aside from CGI and the "final farewell," we saw no other people fighting alongside of us). But okay. We continued on.

We hit the final ten minutes - this is where it all counts, what all of our choices have led up to.
And then...
Space Magic!


I swear, the longer Bioware takes to actually confirm/deny an ALTERNATE ending - not one where they "clarify" (putting a magnifying glass to **** doesn't not make it ****), the more respect I lose for their people. The company name means nothing to me anymore.

Modifié par SilencedScream, 26 mars 2012 - 04:23 .

[JohnnyG]

rgretret wrote...

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Bioware, because they made a highly emotional game after all and just because the ending was disappointing for most of us, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too.

Look at my sig, read the lies, and then tell me if we are being unfair?

[tenojitsu]

Yeaaahhh.........no. They are a company that released a product that in the end was nothing like advertised. As a consumer, I paid my $70 (thanks to day 1 DLC), and it is more than acceptable to voice an opinion on a sub-par, misadvertised product.

[Adamantium93]

rgretret wrote...

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Bioware, because they made a highly emotional game after all and just because the ending was disappointing for most of us, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too.

But the rest of the game isn't a masterpeice.

1. Barely any squadmates, especially if Tali and Garrus died in ME2 and you kill VS

2. Too many instances where Shepard does his own thing without player input and regardless of a previously established personality. He seems almost bipolar in some instances.

3. Bugs

4. Side missions are nice but they are few and far between. Many are either excuses to wave a returning character in our face or single player versions of the multiplayer maps. Which aren't necessarily bad things, but they're all we get.

5. Exploration is officially lost. Its been boiled down to "Go to sector X that alien Y told you about. Scan planet Z and retreive artifact Q before Reapers arrive. Rinse, Repeat ad naseum

6. The galaxy feels smaller. No more hub worlds besides the citadel (which is even smaller than it was in ME2).

7. You choices don't matter. Cheat on your LI? No worries. Kill the Rachni queen? She's back anyway. Mordin died? That's ok, we have a new guy to take his place.

8. EMS! Every single choice you made, every character you ran into, has been boiled down into number soup which in the end does nothing to change the ending.

9. Multiplayer is practically required to get the "best" ending.

[Qutayba]

Criticism is fine and, in fact, good for them. But it should be civil and constructive. Certainly a lot of fans have taken it over the top.

The game is good - not perfect, but certainly strong. It's why the ending hit everyone so hard.

Things are certainly a little calmer now than they were last week,

[NormanRawn]

rgretret wrote...

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Bioware, because they made a highly emotional game after all and just because the ending was disappointing for most of us, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too.

I don't know what to say, I agree the franchise was so powerfull and emotionally engaging and that includes ME3

Im not a big gamer, ME is one of a handfull of games I have invested in. Why? Because it was unique and allowed me to shape a world that BioWare sucessfully made me care about. The races, the locations, and the fresh approch to travel and technology thanks to the invention of Mass Relays.

I believe all 3 games were masterpieces, but my emotion at the end of ME3 was very clear, I felt betrayed.

I have invested so much time and so has BioWare, in a franchiose that has made many people emotionally connect with it. But many fans, including myself, feel that Bioware seemed to write an ending that did not give justice to the amazing universe they have created, and in some fans minds, betrayed it.

I think the debates over the endings will continue, because we feel our concerns matter to someone reading these posts. We all have stated that we love the rest of the game, and the earlier games as well. Many of us are just looking to express how the ending let us down as fans, and let BioWare down as an amazing developer.

Modifié par NormanRawn, 26 mars 2012 - 04:30 .

[SilencedScream]

Adamantium93 wrote...

2. Too many instances where Shepard does his own thing without player input and regardless of a previously established personality. He seems almost bipolar in some instances.

Actually, I want to comment on this.
I found it hilarious when, talking to the Salarian dalatress and Wrex (I'm assuming it's mostly the same with his brother as well), ALL dialogue options imply that you're FULLY willing to cure the genophage (the paragon says it's the right thing, the renegade says it's a necessity).

And then, randomly, you have the option to lie and not do it.

[tenojitsu]

Adamantium93 wrote...

rgretret wrote...

 In my opinion we should behave kinder towards Bioware, because they made a highly emotional game after all and just because the ending was disappointing for most of us, it doesn't mean that the rest of this masterpiece of a game was too.

But the rest of the game isn't a masterpeice.

1. Barely any squadmates, especially if Tali and Garrus died in ME2 and you kill VS

2. Too many instances where Shepard does his own thing without player input and regardless of a previously established personality. He seems almost bipolar in some instances.

3. Bugs

4. Side missions are nice but they are few and far between. Many are either excuses to wave a returning character in our face or single player versions of the multiplayer maps. Which aren't necessarily bad things, but they're all we get.

5. Exploration is officially lost. Its been boiled down to "Go to sector X that alien Y told you about. Scan planet Z and retreive artifact Q before Reapers arrive. Rinse, Repeat ad naseum

6. The galaxy feels smaller. No more hub worlds besides the citadel (which is even smaller than it was in ME2).

7. You choices don't matter. Cheat on your LI? No worries. Kill the Rachni queen? She's back anyway. Mordin died? That's ok, we have a new guy to take his place.

8. EMS! Every single choice you made, every character you ran into, has been boiled down into number soup which in the end does nothing to change the ending.

9. Multiplayer is practically required to get the "best" ending.

EMS is a scam to make buyers of used games buy the online pass to get extra breath scene since you. Need to play multiplayer to get it

[The Lightspeaker]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Even better is this thread shows that a lot of them thinks Bioware deserves this treatment.

I am not their friend. I am not a member of their family. I don't owe them anything. They don't "deserve" my praise or support or money. I am their customer. I have paid money for a product which they promised certain things in and which they presented in a certain way. Part of it did not live up to those expectations and promises. Therefore I have absolutely every right to complain about it.

The whole "threatening people, trying to get people sacked, etc" is a ridiculous argument. A handful of people may well be doing that. The majority are doing nothing more than complaining, loudly but civilly.

[antony1197]

The endings overshadows it though, plus remember all the lies during marketing? 16 different endings supposedly VASTLY different... Sorry but not anymore, look i dont need a happy ending but we need more choice ME is about choice its about that no matter what you do you still have choice maybe not as much but you still have options, that ending made everything pointless

[Hydralysk]

When the lead writer lies through his teeth about story details 6 days before release? No I don't think I'm being unfair, we're giving them a chance to make up for it but they dug their own grave.