288 réponses à ce sujet

[parrmi22]

Yes. The ending was so tragic because the rest of the game was so amazing. I just hope BioWare realizes that most of their fans loved the game and the trilogy, but that ending was just a slap in the face.

[TUHD]

Persephone wrote...

TUHD wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Namz89 wrote...

But...you know what makes me think? You want civility and maturity. Is pretending to listen, and ignoring so many voices civil...mature...or even fair?
Things like that go both ways. Just saying...

So far the Retake movement has been using deceit, wanting to sue Bioware, giving the game 0/10, comparing it
to getting their mother raped, comparing it to killing their children, comparing it to being molested, wanting people to be fired, calling for the company to collapse, making threads about how to get your money back that's full of praise and support, demanding their money back from a charity and forcing it to change it's rules, the list goes on and on.


The people in that movement who are being civil are being drowned out, quite dramatically, by the members of that group who are being destructive. Every time you see someone post one line and "Hold the line" it's just assumed they're part of the destructive side.

Heck there's even tons of people in here saying Bioware deserve everything they get, debatably the majority of people in here. What has Bioware done that's as bad as this or deserves this?

ROFL. Get your fact right or go away. You're trolling now, and your facts are as far away from the truth as it can be.

Sadly no. Everything mentioned in his/her post HAS actually happened.

Things like that have happened yes, but only by moronic idiots - not a large part of the movement, let alone the movement as a whole. Stating that 'the movement' has done such things is like saying every US-citizen has killed innocents in Iraq - while they are related in a way with those who did it, it is nowhere near true.

[MustacheManatee]

The game is spectacular, as is the series. The problem with the ending(as many have pointed out) is that it is in direct contradiction to the themes of ME1, ME2, and most of ME3. You can't have three games full of information and foreshadowing, only to contradict ALL of it in the final 10 minuets.
I still have great respect for the creative team at Bioware(not for EA though) and I believe they will do their best to make this right.

[Actinguy1]

If I have a favorite restaurant, but one day I order my usual, and instead they serve me human feces, I'm going to have a little chat with the manager...and the press...and the police. I'm also never going to eat there again.  I'm certainly not going to thank the waiter for trying.  He may not have cooked the feces himself, but he saw it on the plate and still put it on my table, expecting me to eat it.

I am not a "fan". I am a consumer. A consumer purchases a product. If he is unsatisfied with that product within a certain time frame, he often receives a full refund. At bare minimum, he is well within his right to tell the staff, management, and other potential customers that he is displeased with the product. He does not have to thank the staff for trying. This is their job.

Modifié par Actinguy1, 26 mars 2012 - 06:14 .

[Persephone]

TUHD wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TUHD wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Namz89 wrote...

But...you know what makes me think? You want civility and maturity. Is pretending to listen, and ignoring so many voices civil...mature...or even fair?
Things like that go both ways. Just saying...

So far the Retake movement has been using deceit, wanting to sue Bioware, giving the game 0/10, comparing it
to getting their mother raped, comparing it to killing their children, comparing it to being molested, wanting people to be fired, calling for the company to collapse, making threads about how to get your money back that's full of praise and support, demanding their money back from a charity and forcing it to change it's rules, the list goes on and on.


The people in that movement who are being civil are being drowned out, quite dramatically, by the members of that group who are being destructive. Every time you see someone post one line and "Hold the line" it's just assumed they're part of the destructive side.

Heck there's even tons of people in here saying Bioware deserve everything they get, debatably the majority of people in here. What has Bioware done that's as bad as this or deserves this?

ROFL. Get your fact right or go away. You're trolling now, and your facts are as far away from the truth as it can be.

Sadly no. Everything mentioned in his/her post HAS actually happened.

Things like that have happened yes, but only by moronic idiots - not a large part of the movement, let alone the movement as a whole. Stating that 'the movement' has done such things is like saying every US-citizen has killed innocents in Iraq - while they are related in a way with those who did it, it is nowhere near true.

MC, Amazon and other sites offering user ratings are trolled massively...with 1s & 0s wrecking the game's score to a completely unfair score.

But yes, I would not condemn the entire movement based on that. I only wish they would counter-act such methods rather than ignoring them and often downright supporting them.

[Persephone]

Actinguy1 wrote...

If I have a favorite restaurant, but one day I order my usual, and instead they serve me human feces, I'm going to have a little chat with the manager...and the press...and the police. I'm also never going to eat there again.
.

Hyperbole. And completely undeserved, never mind that the comparison does not apply AT ALL.

[Oakenshield1]

The game is good but NOT a masterpiece. We get less character time, confusing mission system, meaningless war assets, and a multi with only one mode. NOT masterpiece.

[Persephone]

Oakenshield1 wrote...

The game is good but NOT a masterpiece. We get less character time, confusing mission system, meaningless war assets, and a multi with only one mode. NOT masterpiece.

We actually get more character time. Didn't think the mission system was confusing (It's simple as heck) and the ware assets aren't meaningless.

Definitely a (flawed) masterpiece in my book.

[PsylenceRD]

TUHD wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sadly no. Everything mentioned in his/her post HAS actually happened.

Things like that have happened yes, but only by moronic idiots - not a large part of the movement, let alone the movement as a whole. Stating that 'the movement' has done such things is like saying every US-citizen has killed innocents in Iraq - while they are related in a way with those who did it, it is nowhere near true.

Okay, okay. Seriously, this whole arguement is a bit ironic. It started with gross exagerations and continues with more of it back and forth(while saying that they are gross exagerations). Both sides have their points and, really, the point of contention is misrepresentation. While, I agree, the movement has been linked to bad things, the movement as a whole does not do them. That's really the point here and what should be considered. It doesn't matter if, in someone else's mind, the bad deeds outweigh the non-descructive ones - as a whole, the movement doesn't do destructive things. If you prefer me to relate this in another way, in general when I see people who support the ending they are bashing-on/insulting people who dislike it. However, to relate everyone who likes the ending with those people would be just as gross an error as relating the movement with the review bombing.

Do I feel that Bioware handled this well? No. Do I think that they deserve everything they're getting? No. But I do think that they deserve the negative feedback(which is voiced appropriately - albeit loudly) and the backlash they're getting from their PR(or lack thereof). Just keep in mind that no side is without blame. Let me reiterate that again: No side is without blame. If someone is coming here just to point fingers(Yes, I mean everyone, not just one side or the other) then maybe it doesn't need to be said in the first place. Yes, I do see the comedy in me commenting in a similar fashion, but I just see this going back and forth constantly - and I don't think either side sees it.

*edited because of a post made in the interim*
Addendum - I think the reason that we are not trying to 'counter-act' the acts of those individuals is because there really is no solid way to do that. However, with that said, I'll make some contact and see if there is some way to get the ball rolling.

Modifié par PsylenceRD, 26 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[Actinguy1]

Persephone wrote...

Actinguy1 wrote...

If I have a favorite restaurant, but one day I order my usual, and instead they serve me human feces, I'm going to have a little chat with the manager...and the press...and the police. I'm also never going to eat there again.
.

Hyperbole. And completely undeserved, never mind that the comparison does not apply AT ALL.

I was reasonable when I reached the ending.  After several weeks, I have become exasperated.  

And your thoughts on my second paragraph, where I directly address the issue?

[alberta]

Actinguy1 wrote...

If I have a favorite restaurant, but one day I order my usual, and instead they serve me human feces, I'm going to have a little chat with the manager...and the press...and the police. I'm also never going to eat there again.

I am not a "fan". I am a consumer. A consumer purchases a product. If he is unsatisfied with that product within a certain time frame, he often receives a full refund. At bare minimum, he is well within his right to tell the staff, management, and other potential customers that he is displeased with the product. He does not have to thank the staff for trying. This is their job.

Very well said - and might I just add - I just completed (five minutes ago) a telephone call to Samsung because my microware of one and one half month old went on the blink - and I wasn't a very happy camper. Samsung were brillant adults and expressed profound sorry for their product's performance and stayed on the telehone with me and worked through the problem. No skipping around the issue, no excuses, no attempt to blame me the consumer.

That's what I call performance to their customer, me! BW please take notice to how it's done here in my world. Customer satsifaction is their goal and their business. Because of Samsung's brilliant support for me - I will contine to buy their product knowing full well I count as a customer!

[TUHD]

Persephone wrote...

TUHD wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TUHD wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Namz89 wrote...

But...you know what makes me think? You want civility and maturity. Is pretending to listen, and ignoring so many voices civil...mature...or even fair?
Things like that go both ways. Just saying...

So far the Retake movement has been using deceit, wanting to sue Bioware, giving the game 0/10, comparing it
to getting their mother raped, comparing it to killing their children, comparing it to being molested, wanting people to be fired, calling for the company to collapse, making threads about how to get your money back that's full of praise and support, demanding their money back from a charity and forcing it to change it's rules, the list goes on and on.


The people in that movement who are being civil are being drowned out, quite dramatically, by the members of that group who are being destructive. Every time you see someone post one line and "Hold the line" it's just assumed they're part of the destructive side.

Heck there's even tons of people in here saying Bioware deserve everything they get, debatably the majority of people in here. What has Bioware done that's as bad as this or deserves this?

ROFL. Get your fact right or go away. You're trolling now, and your facts are as far away from the truth as it can be.

Sadly no. Everything mentioned in his/her post HAS actually happened.

Things like that have happened yes, but only by moronic idiots - not a large part of the movement, let alone the movement as a whole. Stating that 'the movement' has done such things is like saying every US-citizen has killed innocents in Iraq - while they are related in a way with those who did it, it is nowhere near true.

MC, Amazon and other sites offering user ratings are trolled massively...with 1s & 0s wrecking the game's score to a completely unfair score.

But yes, I would not condemn the entire movement based on that. I only wish they would counter-act such methods rather than ignoring them and often downright supporting them.

Problem is, just like Anonymous, it's an Internet-based movement. Everyone can say they're part of it, while it's impossible to keep it in check. The movement can't tell everyone on the Internet to be fair and civil when posting - it's impossible, even if you manage to reach everyone who's disappointed about the game, there are enough who won't listen and there are also people who are just trolling because of the trolling.
There are plenty of threads of people within the movement (including all of the 'leaders' (those who have organized stuff)) who have spoken out against the reviewbombing etc. Effective result? Those who are reasonable (the majority of the movement), have stopped with it if they did it at all. You can't control the rest.

[DaosX]

Stanley Woo wrote...

This is just a reminder that, regardless of how you feel about the ME3 ending or BioWare, our Site Rules are still in effect. Like us or not, like Mass Effect 3 or not, there is never any call for swearing, disrespect towards our developers, or bashing of the company. Such behaviour is inappropriate for our community. We expect our community members to be able to disagree with us, our decisions, and our games with civility and maturity.

thank you.

Just to play devil's advocate but how exactly do you define "bashing" exactly? Because if "bashing" is grounds for bans, then technically everyone that criticizes the company is deemed to be banned...and that wouldn't leave much activity left in the forums since just about everyone is doing that. Heh.

[Actinguy1]

TUHD wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TUHD wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TUHD wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Namz89 wrote...

But...you know what makes me think? You want civility and maturity. Is pretending to listen, and ignoring so many voices civil...mature...or even fair?
Things like that go both ways. Just saying...

So far the Retake movement has been using deceit, wanting to sue Bioware, giving the game 0/10, comparing it
to getting their mother raped, comparing it to killing their children, comparing it to being molested, wanting people to be fired, calling for the company to collapse, making threads about how to get your money back that's full of praise and support, demanding their money back from a charity and forcing it to change it's rules, the list goes on and on.


The people in that movement who are being civil are being drowned out, quite dramatically, by the members of that group who are being destructive. Every time you see someone post one line and "Hold the line" it's just assumed they're part of the destructive side.

Heck there's even tons of people in here saying Bioware deserve everything they get, debatably the majority of people in here. What has Bioware done that's as bad as this or deserves this?

ROFL. Get your fact right or go away. You're trolling now, and your facts are as far away from the truth as it can be.

Sadly no. Everything mentioned in his/her post HAS actually happened.

Things like that have happened yes, but only by moronic idiots - not a large part of the movement, let alone the movement as a whole. Stating that 'the movement' has done such things is like saying every US-citizen has killed innocents in Iraq - while they are related in a way with those who did it, it is nowhere near true.

MC, Amazon and other sites offering user ratings are trolled massively...with 1s & 0s wrecking the game's score to a completely unfair score.

But yes, I would not condemn the entire movement based on that. I only wish they would counter-act such methods rather than ignoring them and often downright supporting them.

Problem is, just like Anonymous, it's an Internet-based movement. Everyone can say they're part of it, while it's impossible to keep it in check. The movement can't tell everyone on the Internet to be fair and civil when posting - it's impossible, even if you manage to reach everyone who's disappointed about the game, there are enough who won't listen and there are also people who are just trolling because of the trolling.
There are plenty of threads of people within the movement (including all of the 'leaders' (those who have organized stuff)) who have spoken out against the reviewbombing etc. Effective result? Those who are reasonable (the majority of the movement), have stopped with it if they did it at all. You can't control the rest.

Exactly.  The problem with a leader-less movement like ours is that every single person is a spokesperson even when we don't agree with them.

I don't "rating troll" myself, but I don't disagree with these people.  When my friends ask me, I tell them not to buy Mass Effect 3.  Does it have incredible moments?  Of course.  But I tell them what to expect: The ending provides absolutely no closure, undoes every one of your choices, and you don't find out what happens to most of your crew.  Based on this feedback, they don't buy the game.  So, I guess that is a zero rating from me.

But these people that want happy endings with their love interests on the beach?  In my mind, these are teenaged girls who don't understand what makes a great ending.  I do not want them speaking on my behalf.  So if I dislike the ending, then I'm Retake ME3...but I also dislike the endings submitted by some members of Retake ME3.  Maybe it's even a majority that want the beach ending, I don't know.  But they don't speak for me, and I don't speak for them.

[hoorayforicecream]

TUHD wrote...

Problem is, just like Anonymous, it's an Internet-based movement. Everyone can say they're part of it, while it's impossible to keep it in check. The movement can't tell everyone on the Internet to be fair and civil when posting - it's impossible, even if you manage to reach everyone who's disappointed about the game, there are enough who won't listen and there are also people who are just trolling because of the trolling.
There are plenty of threads of people within the movement (including all of the 'leaders' (those who have organized stuff)) who have spoken out against the reviewbombing etc. Effective result? Those who are reasonable (the majority of the movement), have stopped with it if they did it at all. You can't control the rest.

The most extreme tend to make the the most noise. As long as they claim they are part of the movement, they are part of the movement. It's easy to dismiss their actions as non-representative, just like it's easy to dismiss the number of people actively campaigning against the ending as non-representative. It's a minority within a minority, but that's just how it is... the sorest thumbs stick out most.

[zennyrpg]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Namz89 wrote...

But...you know what makes me think? You want civility and maturity. Is pretending to listen, and ignoring so many voices civil...mature...or even fair?
Things like that go both ways. Just saying...

So far the Retake movement has been using deceit, wanting to sue Bioware,

For false advertising.  If their case is ridiculous it will be thrown out (which it probably will).  Everyone has the right to sue who ever they want... they just won't succeed unless it holds water.  I see nothing morally wrong with their actions here.  Its extreme and I wouldn't do it, but they have every right to do what they want.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
giving the game 0/10,

For some people the ending literally ruined the game for them.  I gave ME3 a 4/10.  Reviews tend to be emotionally charged.  Giving a horrible review because you dislike one element of a product is normal.  I see 0/5 reviews for restaurants all the time if the service is bad.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
comparing it
to getting their mother raped, comparing it to killing their children, comparing it to being molested,

In fairness I haven't seen these particular comparisons, minus the molested one.  But i think this is an analogy for the total sense of security and trust that was dashed by the ending.  "Violated" is slightly more mild description.  These are peoples opinions.  I don't think the ending was quite so bad, but again, people can have their opinions.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
wanting people to be fired,

It seems natural to want someone for be held responsible for a bad product.  IF say, one or two people decided the ending was a good idea they probably should be fired for total negligence (costing their company money).  Its probably more complicated than that though.  But calling on people to be fired is a pretty natural consumer reaction.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
calling for the company to collapse,

Its their opinion.  I disagree (a lot of people do).  I would prefer for bioware to thrive and make great games.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
making threads about how to get your money back that's full of praise and support,

Trying to get their money back for a product they didn't like?  Sounds total fine to me.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
demanding their money back from a charity and forcing it to change it's rules, the list goes on and on.

I can't respond to this one.  Sorry, not up to date with the charity stuff.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
The people in that movement who are being civil are being drowned out, quite dramatically, by the members of that group who are being destructive. Every time you see someone post one line and "Hold the line" it's just assumed they're part of the destructive side.

Are they?  I feel like most of the people are civil.  When I see a "hold the line" I assume they are just being civil.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
Heck there's even tons of people in here saying Bioware deserve everything they get, debatably the majority of people in here. What has Bioware done that's as bad as this or deserves this?

Some people feel the endings are that bad.  Also- nothing in your post (minus the charity thing, which i know nothing about) seems all that bad to me.

[Lookout1390]

Bioware has one chance to make it right, or atleast make it have closure so we aren't left with hundreds of questions.

So yeah, they can put their stupid MP-DLC crap on hold, and get done what needs to be done.

ME was originally a single-player experience, and it should be focused on that.

[UrgentArchengel]

Timetables shouldn't exist when creating art.

[Yearlongjester]

The whole game was rushed, filled with plenty of plot holes. I'll be fair and say most of us, myself included, would've let it be and forgotten about them had the ending been any good. As it wasn't, it's given us a drive to **** about every single misstep Bioware took when they made this game.

I love Mass Effect 3. I absolutely do, and if anyone tried to say to my face that the game as a whole was bad I will argue them down. I've even been encouraging people to check it out, but always with a massive disclaimer: "The ending is the worst, seriously. It completely invalidates not only what you did in this game, but everything you did for the entire trilogy. It. Was. Awful."

Sooooo.... no. I'm, not being unfair. Bioware gave us a hashed out ending and I'm responding in kind.

[Actinguy1]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Timetables shouldn't exist when creating art.

But it has too.  If they release their "art" in ten years, I'm just not going to care.

It is a product.  It is a product that is drawn, and written, and voiced, yes.  Call it art if you like.  But if you want someone to BUY your art, you have to deliver your product when your customers actually want it.  Otherwise, they'll just move on with their lives.

[mauro2222]

Masterpiece... LOL!

Full of bugs, horrible textures (even worse than ME2), rushed missions, rushed ending, horrible autodialogue and lazy work (things that should't be there if they are not finished or done 5 min before shipping).

[Heather Cline]

I'm not going to silence myself because people think I should. I'm a consumer. I was promised a product with several features and also a ending that had several different possibilities. I was lied to. Therefore as a consumer it is my responsibility and my duty to be outraged and to complain to the company that made said product. Video games are first and foremost a product. They are art only secondary because they use some art in their medium to portray a scenes to me visually.

The game did not deliver as promised by the Advertising and PR campaign done by Bioware's Casey Hudson, Mac Walters, and Dr. Ray Muzyka. Because of this the game is horrible and it should not have been shipped in this condition. I don't care what the excuses are, or their so called 'artistic integrity' is or that their defense is that "it's art". They can't hide behind those things and I will call the company on it time and time again until Bioware as a company understands that this is unacceptable.

So no I am not being unfair to the company. I am being very fair by being civil while vocalizing my outcry and my disdain for what they did to the series and to this one single game as a whole.

[VoodooDrackus]

Actinguy1 wrote...
...
 I'm going to have a little chat with the manager...and the press...and the police. I'm also never going to eat there again.  I'm certainly not going to thank the waiter for trying. 
...

I am not a "fan". I am a consumer. A consumer purchases a product. If he is unsatisfied with that product within a certain time frame, he often receives a full refund. At bare minimum, he is well within his right to tell the staff, management, and other potential customers that he is displeased with the product. He does not have to thank the staff for trying. This is their job.

If you consider Mass Effect 3 a product that you consume and you think you were served what you described, then return the product for a full refund (which you can in fact do).

Also you mention never eating there again. So. I. Am. Not. Sure. Why. You. Are. Still. Here.

[zennyrpg]

VoodooDrackus wrote...

Actinguy1 wrote...
...
 I'm going to have a little chat with the manager...and the press...and the police. I'm also never going to eat there again.  I'm certainly not going to thank the waiter for trying. 
...

I am not a "fan". I am a consumer. A consumer purchases a product. If he is unsatisfied with that product within a certain time frame, he often receives a full refund. At bare minimum, he is well within his right to tell the staff, management, and other potential customers that he is displeased with the product. He does not have to thank the staff for trying. This is their job.

If you consider Mass Effect 3 a product that you consume and you think you were served what you described, then return the product for a full refund (which you can in fact do).

Also you mention never eating there again. So. I. Am. Not. Sure. Why. You. Are. Still. Here.

Didn't we have a thread going about why people are still here?  There are lots of good answers to that question there.

[Actinguy1]

VoodooDrackus wrote...

Actinguy1 wrote...
...
 I'm going to have a little chat with the manager...and the press...and the police. I'm also never going to eat there again.  I'm certainly not going to thank the waiter for trying. 
...

I am not a "fan". I am a consumer. A consumer purchases a product. If he is unsatisfied with that product within a certain time frame, he often receives a full refund. At bare minimum, he is well within his right to tell the staff, management, and other potential customers that he is displeased with the product. He does not have to thank the staff for trying. This is their job.

If you consider Mass Effect 3 a product that you consume and you think you were served what you described, then return the product for a full refund (which you can in fact do).

Also you mention never eating there again. So. I. Am. Not. Sure. Why. You. Are. Still. Here.

You can get a full refund on Amazon, etc.  Not at Gamestop, where I bought mine because I had store credit.

I am still here for two reasons:  1) So this forum isn't overrun by people who confuse art and products, and 2) As a PR executive, I am morbidly fascinated with how badly Bioware/EA is handling this.