256 réponses à ce sujet

[ZephyrAM]

Raging Nug wrote...

ZephyrAM wrote...

This is why rules and laws 'exist'. Because yes, especially when the effect on others is minimal, or appears so, our base nature dictates that we look out for ourself, and to hell with anything else.

They're not going to OK or leave an exploit in the game that completely undermines the entire system. And justifying the use of said exploit by complaining that you've been wronged by the system just doesn't work. Why not just go rob a bank because you got charged fees you don't agree with?

Because you aren't allowed to.

Except that the credit exploit doesn't steal from other people. However, if I knew that a specific dumpster could spontaneously create ten dollars every few minutes, and the ten dollars didn't belong to anyone, would it be wrong to take it? Would taking it harm anyone? Is there anyone in the world who would be harmed by my taking the ten dollars?

Edit: Let's also suppose that I've just been robbed twenty dollars. That ten doesn't give me back what I lost, but it could help, and like I said, I can't imagine it would harm anyone.

I guess this isn't really something that can be explained. You either understand that it's wrong, or you don't.

And your analogy is a touch off. The dumpster belongs to Bioware. They may not know the money is there, and so they won't really miss it, but it is still within their property. Other people also see you taking that magical money out, so they come over and grab some for themselves. Before you know it, Everyone in the city is making passes at the dumpster for free cash.

As you might imagine, this would eventually have serious effects on the community and the Bioware services overall.

And they can likely ban you for doing something that is undeniably 'wrong'. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're taking something that you're not supposed to.

[Lemons39]

I think the main reason Bioware is so against cheating isn't because you're stealing credits or because it's a co-op game and cheating isn't co-op, but because it ruins the longevity of the game.

If they didn't take action on the cheating then everyone would unlock everything really fast and they would have no point to really play anymore, let alone want to spend money on Microsoft points for Spectre packs.

[Raging Nug]

ZephyrAM wrote...
I guess this isn't really something that can be explained. You either understand that it's wrong, or you don't.

And your analogy is a touch off. The dumpster belongs to Bioware. They may not know the money is there, and so they won't really miss it, but it is still within their property. Other people also see you taking that magical money out, so they come over and grab some for themselves. Before you know it, Everyone in the city is making passes at the dumpster for free cash.

As you might imagine, this would eventually have serious effects on the community and the Bioware services overall.

And they can likely ban you for doing something that is undeniably 'wrong'. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're taking something that you're not supposed to.

Well, I disagree with your assertion that it is 'wrong', certainly, but probably because I have yet to see anyone point out who is being harmed by someone else benefitting from the exploit? As myself and many others have pointed out, if someone has a Widow X, can you honestly tell whether it was obtained through credit farming? Would it make a difference if they spent real money to get it or not? Probably not,

If the dumpster belongs to Bioware, then the ten dollars is also going to be spent in the Bioware store anyway. Nobody loses out on this. Sure, if this were an economy, it would cause problems, but the credit store isn't an economy - it's a reward system. People spent credits for randomized rewards. Earning more credits won't guarantee or even help someone to get a specific item.

How has this exploit impacted you? Has it impacted someone you know? Are you feeling credit envy? I think it's silly to argue that this exploit is harmful to a co-operative multiplayer.

If something is undeniably wrong, sure, but I don't think this is as unambiguous as you would think.

[Raging Nug]

Lemons39 wrote...

I think the main reason Bioware is so against cheating isn't because you're stealing credits or because it's a co-op game and cheating isn't co-op, but because it ruins the longevity of the game.

I already got all the Achievements legitimately. I play because it's fun to play with friends. If my friends want to get some extra credits, that's their decision. I play because the co-operative style game is fun, and my gameplay experience isn't diminished by what gear my friends have.

[Blest HR]

Melchiah109 wrote...

Legato 0021 wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

I'm sorry, but you can try justifying exploiting however you want, it's still exploiting. Does losing your unlocks suck? Sure, my buddy is in that same boat, but the point of the game is playing it, not the rewards.

Fair enough, but is exploiting considered cheating? Is it harmful to the community/game? Is it unacceptable for someone to use it in order to get back the stuff they lost? I think these are the questions I'm trying to ask.

Personally, I think it is harmful to the community. If nothing happens to the exploiters then that's all people will do and degrade the quality of gameplay. If something does happen to them, then we lose potential players that might otherwise make good team mates. In public, using the exploit could put more money into someone's bank that wasn't using it due to the way rewards are given at the end of a round. This could flag the bystander as a potiential cheater by Bioware in the event that they do take action.

As for what is actually acceptable or not, I can't answer that. I would assume the answer is no from my MMO background, but that's up to Bioware to decide.

Something tells me you are just saying all of this because you yourself do not know the glitch.
But actually, it does not hurt ANYONE other than the people doing the bug.
In reality the people doing the bug will max out most of their stuff and will have no real reason to want to play anymore.
It doesn't hurt the community at all by cluttering the field with people who have maxed out stuff.
If you think about the mechanics its simple. Team A kills Enemy X on Map 1. Team A extracted after killing Enemy X on Map 1, full extracted. All players got same money, same experience.

Now tell me..... how does it ruin your fun when someone with a level 2 plasma shotgun has top score by 10k.
Cause honestly.... I've been a 1 man army (meaning I've only played maybe 6 matches where I wasn't top score) since the launch of the game and just because I am rank 574 with a ton of really good weapons.... it does not affect how the YOUR gameplay is any different.

You're right. I don't, nor do I plan to know it. People talk about it being used it lobbies which means that it falls under the reward mechanics. Everyone gets the same amount of XP/Credits at the end of the round. Which means that a person who did NOT exploit now has exploited money. If you don't think that impacts their game, then I have nothing for you because you're obviously too clever for me.

 I never said anything about having maxxed out items, I said it degrades the gameplay. If people spend all their time exploiting instead of playing, then they're not spending time learning tactics to play the game properly. I could care less what level their sniper rifle is.

It ruins my fun when people seem to think that they can do whatever they want without consequences (seriously, when did people start thinking this?) and join MY games to start exploiting, AFK leeching, or straight up cheating with altered files for things like semi-auto Widows with unlimited ammo. If you want to cheat keep the stuff private. 

I don't think it ruining the game play it how you want you payed for the game. I remember the days back on gears of war 1 were people were kung-fu flipping crab walking and gitching out the map. It was alot of fun the bit that wasn't fun was when people didn't know how to do all that stuff to join in or they could get the idiot who was being unfair on them outside the map because they didn't know how. The only game I have found that been wrecked by gitched lobbies and stuff is the call of duty games. People just do that freely and have no consideration for people who just want to play the game properly, but in a game like this and and the ones that this game has it don't effect people at all as long as they keep it in organised groups and not just freely.

Modifié par Blest HR, 26 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[Lemons39]

Raging Nug wrote...

ZephyrAM wrote...
I guess this isn't really something that can be explained. You either understand that it's wrong, or you don't.

And your analogy is a touch off. The dumpster belongs to Bioware. They may not know the money is there, and so they won't really miss it, but it is still within their property. Other people also see you taking that magical money out, so they come over and grab some for themselves. Before you know it, Everyone in the city is making passes at the dumpster for free cash.

As you might imagine, this would eventually have serious effects on the community and the Bioware services overall.

And they can likely ban you for doing something that is undeniably 'wrong'. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're taking something that you're not supposed to.

Well, I disagree with your assertion that it is 'wrong', certainly, but probably because I have yet to see anyone point out who is being harmed by someone else benefitting from the exploit? As myself and many others have pointed out, if someone has a Widow X, can you honestly tell whether it was obtained through credit farming? Would it make a difference if they spent real money to get it or not? Probably not,

If the dumpster belongs to Bioware, then the ten dollars is also going to be spent in the Bioware store anyway. Nobody loses out on this. Sure, if this were an economy, it would cause problems, but the credit store isn't an economy - it's a reward system. People spent credits for randomized rewards. Earning more credits won't guarantee or even help someone to get a specific item.

How has this exploit impacted you? Has it impacted someone you know? Are you feeling credit envy? I think it's silly to argue that this exploit is harmful to a co-operative multiplayer.

If something is undeniably wrong, sure, but I don't think this is as unambiguous as you would think.

It doesn't hurt the community at all.

It's the fact it's making the game not last as long by obtaining credits through a glitch, and a game that doesn't last as long isn't going to make any money for Bioware.

Why buy Spectre packs with Microsoft points if you can just spend 4 minutes doing this simple glitch, ya know?

[Nocturnalfox]

A person on my FL actually invited me along to go "farm some easy credits through a glitch" I rejected (for obvious reasons I don't want to get banned), but I understand where the OP is coming from- BW has done nothing for the people who all ready lost everything- including the time they soaked in that can not be returned.
IF ( a big IF) that bug happened to me after soaking up more then 50-60+ hours into MP I would seriously consider it after contacting BW and if their response wasn't sufficient.
I don't see it happening though, so I don't think I would do it.

[RyanDMC]

Lemons39 wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

ZephyrAM wrote...
I guess this isn't really something that can be explained. You either understand that it's wrong, or you don't.

And your analogy is a touch off. The dumpster belongs to Bioware. They may not know the money is there, and so they won't really miss it, but it is still within their property. Other people also see you taking that magical money out, so they come over and grab some for themselves. Before you know it, Everyone in the city is making passes at the dumpster for free cash.

As you might imagine, this would eventually have serious effects on the community and the Bioware services overall.

And they can likely ban you for doing something that is undeniably 'wrong'. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're taking something that you're not supposed to.

Well, I disagree with your assertion that it is 'wrong', certainly, but probably because I have yet to see anyone point out who is being harmed by someone else benefitting from the exploit? As myself and many others have pointed out, if someone has a Widow X, can you honestly tell whether it was obtained through credit farming? Would it make a difference if they spent real money to get it or not? Probably not,

If the dumpster belongs to Bioware, then the ten dollars is also going to be spent in the Bioware store anyway. Nobody loses out on this. Sure, if this were an economy, it would cause problems, but the credit store isn't an economy - it's a reward system. People spent credits for randomized rewards. Earning more credits won't guarantee or even help someone to get a specific item.

How has this exploit impacted you? Has it impacted someone you know? Are you feeling credit envy? I think it's silly to argue that this exploit is harmful to a co-operative multiplayer.

If something is undeniably wrong, sure, but I don't think this is as unambiguous as you would think.

It doesn't hurt the community at all.

It's the fact it's making the game not last as long by obtaining credits through a glitch, and a game that doesn't last as long isn't going to make any money for Bioware.

Why buy Spectre packs with Microsoft points if you can just spend 4 minutes doing this simple glitch, ya know?

Dude the games longevity has already taken a nose dive because BioWare won't fix their **** and instead feel the need to take the time to nerf weapons.

Modifié par RyanDMC, 26 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[Lemons39]

Raging Nug wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

I think the main reason Bioware is so against cheating isn't because you're stealing credits or because it's a co-op game and cheating isn't co-op, but because it ruins the longevity of the game.

I already got all the Achievements legitimately. I play because it's fun to play with friends. If my friends want to get some extra credits, that's their decision. I play because the co-operative style game is fun, and my gameplay experience isn't diminished by what gear my friends have.

I think you're missing my point.

Take away this whole arguement of "your gameplay isn't ruined by this exploit blah blah blah" talk.

The RNG + amount of credits needed to obtain a Spectre pack will keep people playing longer, and WILL result in people buying packs with real money. That's the goal. If you cheat and get infinite credits, well...expect Bioware to do something about one of their sources of income.

[KiraTsukasa]

Raging Nug wrote...

"A lot of people were affected by this and you can NOT expect them to fix it in five seconds."

Three weeks is longer than five seconds, Kira. How long should people be expected to wait? I know people who have given up on the multiplayer entirely because they lost their stuff and haven't gotten it back. The fact that they haven't even told us what they're doing makes patience difficult to come by.

Dude.

It was fixed only ten days ago.

And by a lot of people, I'm not talking about a bunch of forum posters. The vast majority of players don't come here to say they had a problem with it. That means EA and BioWare have to sift through MILLIONS of accounts to determine who was affected and who was not. How long do you HONESTLY think that will take?

[DravicPL]

Or you can spend 2 minutes using a cheat, ya know?

But that's all down to money. Money. Money everywhere. The ideal set for EA would be to make players bound to their games forever paying at LEAST 1$ for each hour they play their game... I guess.

That's just sick, you pay for the game, you pay for DLCs, you pay for so many things and they still demand more and more...

[Lemons39]

RyanDMC wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

ZephyrAM wrote...
I guess this isn't really something that can be explained. You either understand that it's wrong, or you don't.

And your analogy is a touch off. The dumpster belongs to Bioware. They may not know the money is there, and so they won't really miss it, but it is still within their property. Other people also see you taking that magical money out, so they come over and grab some for themselves. Before you know it, Everyone in the city is making passes at the dumpster for free cash.

As you might imagine, this would eventually have serious effects on the community and the Bioware services overall.

And they can likely ban you for doing something that is undeniably 'wrong'. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're taking something that you're not supposed to.

Well, I disagree with your assertion that it is 'wrong', certainly, but probably because I have yet to see anyone point out who is being harmed by someone else benefitting from the exploit? As myself and many others have pointed out, if someone has a Widow X, can you honestly tell whether it was obtained through credit farming? Would it make a difference if they spent real money to get it or not? Probably not,

If the dumpster belongs to Bioware, then the ten dollars is also going to be spent in the Bioware store anyway. Nobody loses out on this. Sure, if this were an economy, it would cause problems, but the credit store isn't an economy - it's a reward system. People spent credits for randomized rewards. Earning more credits won't guarantee or even help someone to get a specific item.

How has this exploit impacted you? Has it impacted someone you know? Are you feeling credit envy? I think it's silly to argue that this exploit is harmful to a co-operative multiplayer.

If something is undeniably wrong, sure, but I don't think this is as unambiguous as you would think.

It doesn't hurt the community at all.

It's the fact it's making the game not last as long by obtaining credits through a glitch, and a game that doesn't last as long isn't going to make any money for Bioware.

Why buy Spectre packs with Microsoft points if you can just spend 4 minutes doing this simple glitch, ya know?

Dude the games longevity has already taken a nose dive because BioWare won't fix their **** and instead feel the need to take the time to nerf weapons.

Whatever you feel is wrong with the multiplayer, tons more will be okay with. They nerfed my favorite weapons and I still play.

What you hate they have done, a lot of people won't care about, and it definitely doesn't affect sales as much as a credit glitch.

[RyanDMC]

Lemons39 wrote...

RyanDMC wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

ZephyrAM wrote...
I guess this isn't really something that can be explained. You either understand that it's wrong, or you don't.

And your analogy is a touch off. The dumpster belongs to Bioware. They may not know the money is there, and so they won't really miss it, but it is still within their property. Other people also see you taking that magical money out, so they come over and grab some for themselves. Before you know it, Everyone in the city is making passes at the dumpster for free cash.

As you might imagine, this would eventually have serious effects on the community and the Bioware services overall.

And they can likely ban you for doing something that is undeniably 'wrong'. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're taking something that you're not supposed to.

Well, I disagree with your assertion that it is 'wrong', certainly, but probably because I have yet to see anyone point out who is being harmed by someone else benefitting from the exploit? As myself and many others have pointed out, if someone has a Widow X, can you honestly tell whether it was obtained through credit farming? Would it make a difference if they spent real money to get it or not? Probably not,

If the dumpster belongs to Bioware, then the ten dollars is also going to be spent in the Bioware store anyway. Nobody loses out on this. Sure, if this were an economy, it would cause problems, but the credit store isn't an economy - it's a reward system. People spent credits for randomized rewards. Earning more credits won't guarantee or even help someone to get a specific item.

How has this exploit impacted you? Has it impacted someone you know? Are you feeling credit envy? I think it's silly to argue that this exploit is harmful to a co-operative multiplayer.

If something is undeniably wrong, sure, but I don't think this is as unambiguous as you would think.

It doesn't hurt the community at all.

It's the fact it's making the game not last as long by obtaining credits through a glitch, and a game that doesn't last as long isn't going to make any money for Bioware.

Why buy Spectre packs with Microsoft points if you can just spend 4 minutes doing this simple glitch, ya know?

Dude the games longevity has already taken a nose dive because BioWare won't fix their **** and instead feel the need to take the time to nerf weapons.

Whatever you feel is wrong with the multiplayer, tons more will be okay with. They nerfed my favorite weapons and I still play.

What you hate they have done, a lot of people won't care about, and it definitely doesn't affect sales as much as a credit glitch.

I don't hate the multiplayer. I actually enjoy it. By "fix their ****" i mean fix the bug that causes people to lose their stuff, which they haven't really done despite their claims, and compensate those who lost stuff in some way. or at the very minimum keep us up to speed with whats going on.

I've pretty much written this game off and have stopped playing it. Not because I don't like the multiplayer, but because I can no longer have fun with it concidering I lost all of my stuff and keep getting trolled by the randomized unlock system...

[Lemons39]

RyanDMC wrote...

I don't hate the multiplayer. I actually enjoy it. By "fix their ****" i mean fix the bug that causes people to lose their stuff, which they haven't really done despite their claims, and compensate those who lost stuff in some way. or at the very minimum keep us up to speed with whats going on.

I've pretty much written this game off and have stopped playing it. Not because I don't like the multiplayer, but because I can no longer have fun with it concidering I lost all of my stuff and keep getting trolled by the randomized unlock system...

Uh, okay.

I came into this thread to state why cheating is probably frowned upon by Bioware, not to discuss your personal feelings on why you've shelved the game. They dislike it because it makes them less money, simple as that.

Sure you shelving the game is a lost customer, so I somewhat see the point in you posting that, but the credit glitch makes them lose way more than you disliking their response time to a glitch that resets your stuff.

Not to mention, didn't they fix it?

[Kantham]

Raging Nug wrote...


Now, fortunately, a team of players discovered an easy-fix to the problem, and while it does not guarantee that players will get their items back, it works as a form of compensation, often giving up to 45 000 credits every two minutes with a well-coordinated team.

Fortunately? I can't make any sense out of what you just posted. So much antithesis.

[N3xium_Crash]

Lemons39 wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

Lemons39 wrote...

I think the main reason Bioware is so against cheating isn't because you're stealing credits or because it's a co-op game and cheating isn't co-op, but because it ruins the longevity of the game.

I already got all the Achievements legitimately. I play because it's fun to play with friends. If my friends want to get some extra credits, that's their decision. I play because the co-operative style game is fun, and my gameplay experience isn't diminished by what gear my friends have.

I think you're missing my point.

Take away this whole arguement of "your gameplay isn't ruined by this exploit blah blah blah" talk.

The RNG + amount of credits needed to obtain a Spectre pack will keep people playing longer, and WILL result in people buying packs with real money. That's the goal. If you cheat and get infinite credits, well...expect Bioware to do something about one of their sources of income.

You see Lemons they are naive in thinking Bioware is going to fix a locking glitch or retro-actively get all the items back to those affected when they hear about things like this and see it actively posted on the forums. The closest metaphor I can come up with is if you are doing a yard sale and having to try and do some setup for it but then you hear someone broke into the house and is taking from a vault which one are you going to respond to first? Something tells me the vault (Bioware's potential income from microsoft points) at the meantime will get more attention than then setting up their yardsale (replacing items for those effected by the locking bug). But this will just go over both of their heads anyhow so why I bother I don't even know.<_<

[mdloafer]

Several of the people in this thread keep harping on the "I put X number of hours into the game, therefore I have EARNED better gear that that N7 50 guy!" I completely disagree with this. We ALL knew the unlock system from day one. We all knew that the packs would be completely random. Just because you're N7 is 500+, that doesn't mean that you've earned BETTER GEAR. It just means you've earned more RANDOM PACKS. Trying to justify an exploit to get around that system doesn't change the fact that it's an exploit, and the fact that you're using to circumvent the system. The real issue here seems to be that you (meaning the people using the exploit) have a problem with the unlock system, and you should be addressing that with Bioware on your own, rather than trying to justify exploiting a bug. But hey, either way, I don't have any control over what you do, so carry on.

[Lemons39]

N3xium_Crash wrote...



You see Lemons they are naive in thinking Bioware is going to fix a locking glitch or retro-actively get all the items back to those affected when they hear about things like this and see it actively posted on the forums. The closest metaphor I can come up with is if you are doing a yard sale and having to try and do some setup for it but then you hear someone broke into the house and is taking from a vault which one are you going to respond to first? Something tells me the vault (Bioware's potential income from microsoft points) at the meantime will get more attention than then setting up their yardsale (replacing items for those effected by the locking bug). But this will just go over both of their heads anyhow so why I bother I don't even know.<_<

No metaphore should be needed, it's pretty simple.

But I gotcha.

Modifié par Lemons39, 26 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[Nocturnalfox]

Nothing they can do, from what I got told on mic about 2 minutes ago a lot of people are using the glitch for credits. Unless Sony/BW/EA are prepared to ban a significant chunk of the playerbase no punishment will be handed out.
I suspect they will fix the glitch in the next couple of weeks though.

[Lemons39]

Nocturnalfox wrote...

Nothing they can do, from what I got told on mic about 2 minutes ago a lot of people are using the glitch for credits. Unless Sony/BW/EA are prepared to ban a significant chunk of the playerbase no punishment will be handed out.
I suspect they will fix the glitch in the next couple of weeks though.

I'm thinking this. A rollback would never happen at this point, and so many people have done it that it seems overkill to ban them or reset their accounts.

Who knows though.

[Raging Nug]

"Trying to justify an exploit to get around that system doesn't change the fact that it's an exploit, and the fact that you're using to circumvent the system."

I agree that using the exploit to get better gear is stupid, but using it to earn back what you've lost seems perfectly reasonable to me considering Bioware aren't really doing anything to satisfy the 45+ pages of people complaining about the item re-lock.

[xtorma]

Cheating is wrong, no matter how you dress it up.

[Raging Nug]

xtorma wrote...

Cheating is wrong, no matter how you dress it up.

Cheating is wrong, but is this cheating? Why would what I've described be wrong?

[JaimasOfRaxis]

So long as this game remains as borked as it is, the cheaters unfortunately will have a leg to stand on. Fix the problems, then you can silence the cheaters.

[GGW KillerTiger]

 I love reading about cheating in this game but have yet to see anyone do anything cheating wise outside of what BioWare has nerfed/buffed to "balance" the game (aka lets make the game harder so people will get irritated and spend actual cash for items they aren't even gaurenteed to get). So due explain what this cheating glitch is please?