256 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

It's not a matter of what I believe to be morally just. In fact, this is really simple. The software design is the objective arbiter of what means of gaining credits are intended, and what are not. By abusing a glitch in the software, you are gaining credits by unintended means. Thus you are "cheating" the game.

[GGW KillerTiger]

N3xium_Crash wrote...

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

 I love reading about cheating in this game but have yet to see anyone do anything cheating wise outside of what BioWare has nerfed/buffed to "balance" the game (aka lets make the game harder so people will get irritated and spend actual cash for items they aren't even gaurenteed to get). So due explain what this cheating glitch is please?

No at the very least not in a forum thread. Best to request knowledge of that from other players in-game or in a PM. You can even find some examples on Youtube as mentioned before many like to boast about the stupidest of things.

So still proving my point that people claim it is out their and yet I have yet to see anything that would actually be considered cheating. (yet)

I assume you are all talking about this?: 

Modifié par GGW KillerTiger, 26 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[Raging Nug]

marshalleck wrote...

It's not a matter of what I believe to be morally just. In fact, this is really simple. The software design is the objective arbiter of what means of gaining credits are intended, and what are not. By abusing a glitch in the software, you are gaining credits by unintended means. Thus you are "cheating" the game.

How do we know that this is unintended? How do we know that this isn't simply a Bioware Employee backdoor to easy credits?

[marshalleck]

Raging Nug wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's not a matter of what I believe to be morally just. In fact, this is really simple. The software design is the objective arbiter of what means of gaining credits are intended, and what are not. By abusing a glitch in the software, you are gaining credits by unintended means. Thus you are "cheating" the game.

How do we know that this is unintended? How do we know that this isn't simply a Bioware Employee backdoor to easy credits?

I guess you'll find out if and when Bioware ban, or otherwise penalize your account. 

[wolfstanus]

Raging Nug wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's not a matter of what I believe to be morally just. In fact, this is really simple. The software design is the objective arbiter of what means of gaining credits are intended, and what are not. By abusing a glitch in the software, you are gaining credits by unintended means. Thus you are "cheating" the game.

How do we know that this is unintended? How do we know that this isn't simply a Bioware Employee backdoor to easy credits?

Are you really that dumb?

[Raging Nug]

marshalleck wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's not a matter of what I believe to be morally just. In fact, this is really simple. The software design is the objective arbiter of what means of gaining credits are intended, and what are not. By abusing a glitch in the software, you are gaining credits by unintended means. Thus you are "cheating" the game.

How do we know that this is unintended? How do we know that this isn't simply a Bioware Employee backdoor to easy credits?

I guess you'll find out if and when Bioware ban, or otherwise penalize your account. 

Why would they penalize me personally? I'm a fan of the exploit, but I don't think I've said or even implied that I've done it myself.

Furthermore, like I asked above, how could they possibly know whether or not people are getting items illegitimately? The best weapon I have right now is a Disciple III. Is that going to flag their radar? I certainly hope not.

[BioTick]

[quote]Raging Nug wrote...

I don't think your gameplay should be affected by what items or gear other people have. [quote]



How can my gameplay experience NOT be affected if every other squad member has vastly superior firepower?

They kill mobs, faster, easier and more reliably.

How can that not affect the outcome of a match?!? Someone pull out a calculator and ridddle me this:

DPS of a Mattock 5 VS. DPS of a Saber 10 with maxed damage mods, Rail Amp III and Warp Ammo III?

I think my gameplay can't be unaffected by my squadmates gear! Why else would people boot noobs who pack a Revenant & Widow on their rank 6 Human Adepts?

[samb]

BioTick wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...
Regardless of what I believe, do you feel that this exploit in any way detracts from the gameplay? So far nobody has said 'yes'.

Then I shall oblige: YES!!!

In two weeks, when my Soldier feels underpowered because everyone else is packing a Widow X it most definitely will alter and detract my gameplay experience!

In four weeks, when BioWare decides to nerf more guns (because seemingly every living soul except me is running around with a Black Widow X anyway) it most definitely will be altering and detracting my gameplay experience!!

So you assume that other people are cheating because they have better gear than you?  Maybe the problem isn't them, you are just jealous and accusing them of cheating.

In six weeks, when I get booted from three out of every four lobbies because my gear is just not up to par with what the in-crowd is deeming to be to "bare minimum, nowadays", you can bet my sorry arse it will alter and detract my gameplay experience!!!

Am I taking it too far?

Maybe.

I get kicked with a level 20 quarian infiltrator farming geth in firebase white on gold.  I have a black widow too.  Should I complain about cheating?  Or should I complain about people being unreasonable with their arbitary standards?

You would have a logical point IF you could prove that everyone got their better gear because they cheated.  But the fact is plenty of people:
1) use this glitch
2) got lucky in there packs
3) play a whole lot more than you
4) do a combination of all the above.

Am I still right about credit glitchers altering the outcome of my matches?

Yes.

No.  For the reasons listed above.

[Raging Nug]

wolfstanus wrote...
Are you really that dumb?

I'm pointing out that their silence on the issue is open to interpretation. For all you know, this 'is' a backdoor.

[GGW KillerTiger]

Raging Nug wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's not a matter of what I believe to be morally just. In fact, this is really simple. The software design is the objective arbiter of what means of gaining credits are intended, and what are not. By abusing a glitch in the software, you are gaining credits by unintended means. Thus you are "cheating" the game.

How do we know that this is unintended? How do we know that this isn't simply a Bioware Employee backdoor to easy credits?

I guess you'll find out if and when Bioware ban, or otherwise penalize your account. 

Why would they penalize me personally? I'm a fan of the exploit, but I don't think I've said or even implied that I've done it myself.

Furthermore, like I asked above, how could they possibly know whether or not people are getting items illegitimately? The best weapon I have right now is a Disciple III. Is that going to flag their radar? I certainly hope not.

They could flag it by credits earned versus time played .....

[marshalleck]

Raging Nug wrote...

Why would they penalize me personally? I'm a fan of the exploit, but I don't think I've said or even implied that I've done it myself.

Furthermore, like I asked above, how could they possibly know whether or not people are getting items illegitimately? The best weapon I have right now is a Disciple III. Is that going to flag their radar? I certainly hope not.

I was using 'you' in the general sense, to address anyone in the audience (those viewing/participating in the thread) who may have voiced or internalized the question you asked. I was not calling out you, Raging Nug, specifically to be banned by Bioware.

[Raging Nug]

BioTick wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

I don't think your gameplay should be affected by what items or gear other people have.

How can my gameplay experience NOT be affected if every other squad member has vastly superior firepower?

They kill mobs, faster, easier and more reliably.

How can that not affect the outcome of a match?!? Someone pull out a calculator and ridddle me this:

DPS of a Mattock 5 VS. DPS of a Saber 10 with maxed damage mods, Rail Amp III and Warp Ammo III?

I think my gameplay can't be unaffected by my squadmates gear! Why else would people boot noobs who pack a Revenant & Widow on their rank 6 Human Adepts?

Fixed the quotations hopefully.

The reason your experience is unaffected is because this is a co-operative multiplayer. If someone else has better gear than you, how is it any different than if you were just starting out? Do newbies have a worse time playing than veterans? I don't think they do if the team is playing together. If they're not playing together, then up the difficulty. That should force you to work as a team.

[Ozzy57]

Raging Nug wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's not a matter of what I believe to be morally just. In fact, this is really simple. The software design is the objective arbiter of what means of gaining credits are intended, and what are not. By abusing a glitch in the software, you are gaining credits by unintended means. Thus you are "cheating" the game.

How do we know that this is unintended? How do we know that this isn't simply a Bioware Employee backdoor to easy credits?

I guess you'll find out if and when Bioware ban, or otherwise penalize your account. 

Why would they penalize me personally? I'm a fan of the exploit, but I don't think I've said or even implied that I've done it myself.

Furthermore, like I asked above, how could they possibly know whether or not people are getting items illegitimately? The best weapon I have right now is a Disciple III. Is that going to flag their radar? I certainly hope not.

Also if you don't turn of the tracking/feedback option they could track you and if sometimes it off then back on you can kinda assume something occurred there that you didn't want them to get feedback on

[Raging Nug]

marshalleck wrote...
I was using 'you' in the general sense, to address anyone in the audience (those viewing/participating in the thread) who may have voiced or internalized the question you asked. I was not calling out you, Raging Nug, specifically to be banned by Bioware.

Thank you. I was afraid there would be a Nug hunt.

[BioTick]

samb wrote...

So you assume that other people are cheating because they have better gear than you? 

...Or should I complain about people being unreasonable with their arbitary standards?

Call me a pessimist, call me paranoid, but anyone running around right now, three weeks after release, with a Black Widow X looks mighty fishy to me. Guilty? Can't say. Suspicious? Hell yeah!!!

As for people getting booted for weird reasons, I'm not saying it's not happening as we speak, just that glitching credits can only make matters worse.

I think my point still stands. You alter the firepower, you alter the gameplay.

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

Honestly I feel this entire situation is getting blown out of proportion. It is clearly an exploit of in game mechanics. Does that make it cheating? I don't think so. You're using something within the game itself to your advantage, whether it was intended or not. If you're modifying multiplayer files to obtain credits or 1 shot enemies, that's what I'd consider cheating.

Furthermore the game is a co-op experience. If you're using exploits like this you should be aware that not everyone around you is going to have the same level of weapons/upgrades that you're using. Unless of course you only play with friends at which case you'd most likely all have crazy awesome upgrades so it wouldn't matter.

Regardless of the morality of the issue, with the current system of unlocking/upgrading weapons I feel people are more inclined to use an exploit such as this. When you buy 6 Spectre packs in a row and the only thing you get is a Reset Card and 5 Characters (all of which you already have all customization options unlocked for), you're going to start to get frustrated. When people get frustrated, they look for another answer.

Will people be penalized for doing this? Yes, and for 1 main reason. Right now your unlocks are obtained through spending credits that you earned or through IRL money transaction. A method which results in the rapid gain of credits eliminates any chance of you spending IRL money. EA does not take kindly to losing potential money.

[samb]

FiGhTiNCoWBoY wrote...

Honestly I feel this entire situation is getting blown out of proportion. It is clearly an exploit of in game mechanics. Does that make it cheating? I don't think so. You're using something within the game itself to your advantage, whether it was intended or not. If you're modifying multiplayer files to obtain credits or 1 shot enemies, that's what I'd consider cheating.

Furthermore the game is a co-op experience. If you're using exploits like this you should be aware that not everyone around you is going to have the same level of weapons/upgrades that you're using. Unless of course you only play with friends at which case you'd most likely all have crazy awesome upgrades so it wouldn't matter.

Regardless of the morality of the issue, with the current system of unlocking/upgrading weapons I feel people are more inclined to use an exploit such as this. When you buy 6 Spectre packs in a row and the only thing you get is a Reset Card and 5 Characters (all of which you already have all customization options unlocked for), you're going to start to get frustrated. When people get frustrated, they look for another answer.

Will people be penalized for doing this? Yes, and for 1 main reason. Right now your unlocks are obtained through spending credits that you earned or through IRL money transaction. A method which results in the rapid gain of credits eliminates any chance of you spending IRL money. EA does not take kindly to losing potential money.

wow you like won this thread.
Have cookie.

[BioTick]

Raging Nug wrote...

Fixed the quotations hopefully.

The reason your experience is unaffected is because this is a co-operative multiplayer. If someone else has better gear than you, how is it any different than if you were just starting out? Do newbies have a worse time playing than veterans? I don't think they do if the team is playing together. If they're not playing together, then up the difficulty. That should force you to work as a team.

You did fix it! Sorry and thanks!

Co-op doesn't change the fact that the experience is altered. Imagine BioWare had decided to unlock a special Uber weapon for Goliath participants. A Weapon to end all weapons. Would it break the game for you if you were one of the few who did not have it? Maybe not. Would it alter your experience in matches? Yes, yes it would.

Granted, none of the actual gear credits can buy as of today has this much power. But the logic still stands.

[Deucetipher]

I think this is cheating, and I will attempt to explain why cogently and reasonably.

Whether or not someone else is harmed is ultimately irrelevant to the question of whether the action in question is cheating or not. Cheating is gaining an advantage illegitimately in the course of an endeavor.

Hypothetically, consider Solitaire. One plays it with one's self. However, if one begins to randomly flip over cards to win faster or more easily, is that not cheating? Harm to another party is irrelevant.

Furthermore, let me suggest that my play experience is harmed by those who use the credit exploit. I have worked hard for my admittedly pathetic Carnifex VI. My relative value to a party is diminished as compared to someone who, via exploits, has a Carnifex X or Paladin IV. This problem is magnified for those who have spent actual money in the store.

In addition, the sudden preponderance of X level weaponry cheapens my own feelings of accomplishment. I admit that this is not entirely rational, but I also enjoy cheeseburgers with bacon, beer, and the occasional cigarette, all harmful to me in the long run. We are creatures of bounded rationality.

Finally, Bioware is harmed through this. Many who would simply purchase packs instead turn to the glitch. Regardless of what one thinks of the correctness of their approach, it is their right to run a business model as they see fit in a capitalist society, within the bounds of law.

We have all agreed to play a certain game, as expressed through our agreement with the Terms of Service. While I have not read them, I have read Live's (my platform) Code of Conduct, and exploiting known glitches in multiplayer games is in clear contravention. So, regardless, sanctions are appropriate.

Postscript: I have tried to be both polite and clear. If anyone has any questions or rebuttals, please feel free to chime in. I am a firm believer in the marketplace of ideas

[samb]

So right now I farm gold on firebase white against the geth with my salarian engineer. I make about 90k every 25-30 minutes consistently.

Is that going to be patched?

Oh wait, sabatoge got nerfed. I guess so. Honestly the more you look at it, the more you realize that bioware just wants your money, and they will do it by making things harder by nerfing your powers, guns while buffing everything the things you are supposed to kill. If anyone is cheating, it's Bioware.

Modifié par samb, 26 mars 2012 - 09:50 .

[Droma]

it isn't cheating, it is bug abusing. as a matter of fact both should be illegal and penalized. i hope everyone who uses this more then once will get banned.

just my 2 cent

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

Droma wrote...

it isn't cheating, it is bug abusing. as a matter of fact both should be illegal and penalized. i hope everyone who uses this more then once will get banned.

just my 2 cent

it might be against a ToS, but it's certainly not "illegal"

that would imply that there would be criminal penalties and/or implications for doing it, lol sorry but no.

[Raging Nug]

Deucetipher wrote...
Furthermore, let me suggest that my play experience is harmed by those who use the credit exploit. I have worked hard for my admittedly pathetic Carnifex VI. My relative value to a party is diminished as compared to someone who, via exploits, has a Carnifex X or Paladin IV. This problem is magnified for those who have spent actual money in the store.

Can you tell if someone got a Carnifex X legitimately or not? If someone has an N7 rank of 60 but maxed weapons, you can't honestly tell whether they got their items legitimately or not. For all you know they just don't like promoting their characters.

[Kushana]

Just a warning to all would-be 45k bug exploiters. Turning off feedback will not prevent EA and Bioware from figuring out who's who. Both N7 levels and credits are tracked server-side, and as a programmer I'm sure I could whip up a filter to find the exploiters in short order. So ask yourself whether you're comfortable losing your time, packs, or account as a possible downside to your farming.

[Blest HR]

I think there nothing anything else to say on this subject guys. There always going to be disagreement of weather it is or not. So just et it go