493 réponses à ce sujet

[Grasich]

GDK wrote...

This stuff is starting to seriously creep me out. I don't know about the IDT, but all of this seems to be more and more likely that it happened the deeper we go. What on Earth in happening at BioWare?

If it wasn't for their blatant damage control attempts, I would be a FIRM believer in the IDT. Most of Mass Effect 1 and 2 are full of little things like this (such as the Song of the Rachni in ME1). A lot of people refer to Mass Effect's storytelling as being "ham fisted", but that is completely incorrect. It appears so on the surface, but if you really dig around and pay attention, you are given a TON of incorrect information, and are lied to on a regular basis. (And this is not the result of bad storytelling or plotholes, but simply that, unlike most games, characters in ME tell you what they think, not what is necessarily the truth.)

[LolaLei]

Grasich wrote...

GDK wrote...

This stuff is starting to seriously creep me out. I don't know about the IDT, but all of this seems to be more and more likely that it happened the deeper we go. What on Earth in happening at BioWare?

If it wasn't for their blatant damage control attempts, I would be a FIRM believer in the IDT. Most of Mass Effect 1 and 2 are full of little things like this (such as the Song of the Rachni in ME1). A lot of people refer to Mass Effect's storytelling as being "ham fisted", but that is completely incorrect. It appears so on the surface, but if you really dig around and pay attention, you are given a TON of incorrect information, and are lied to on a regular basis. (And this is not the result of bad storytelling or plotholes, but simply that, unlike most games, characters in ME tell you what they think, not what is necessarily the truth.)

I really liked the idea of the indoctrination theory, but since all the PR bull**** I'm doubting that they will actually roll with the idea.

[GDK]

Grasich wrote...

GDK wrote...

This stuff is starting to seriously creep me out. I don't know about the IDT, but all of this seems to be more and more likely that it happened the deeper we go. What on Earth in happening at BioWare?

If it wasn't for their blatant damage control attempts, I would be a FIRM believer in the IDT. Most of Mass Effect 1 and 2 are full of little things like this (such as the Song of the Rachni in ME1). A lot of people refer to Mass Effect's storytelling as being "ham fisted", but that is completely incorrect. It appears so on the surface, but if you really dig around and pay attention, you are given a TON of incorrect information, and are lied to on a regular basis. (And this is not the result of bad storytelling or plotholes, but simply that, unlike most games, characters in ME tell you what they think, not what is necessarily the truth.)

I know there has been a bajiillion threads both proving and debunking the IDT, but I firmly believe that something, maybe not the IDT, is happening behind the scenes. I just want to find out what....

[Windariah]

GDK wrote...

Grasich wrote...

GDK wrote...

This stuff is starting to seriously creep me out. I don't know about the IDT, but all of this seems to be more and more likely that it happened the deeper we go. What on Earth in happening at BioWare?

If it wasn't for their blatant damage control attempts, I would be a FIRM believer in the IDT. Most of Mass Effect 1 and 2 are full of little things like this (such as the Song of the Rachni in ME1). A lot of people refer to Mass Effect's storytelling as being "ham fisted", but that is completely incorrect. It appears so on the surface, but if you really dig around and pay attention, you are given a TON of incorrect information, and are lied to on a regular basis. (And this is not the result of bad storytelling or plotholes, but simply that, unlike most games, characters in ME tell you what they think, not what is necessarily the truth.)

I know there has been a bajiillion threads both proving and debunking the IDT, but I firmly believe that something, maybe not the IDT, is happening behind the scenes. I just want to find out what....

I'm with you here.  They have something held back.  Regardless of whether you believe IDT or not, they absolutely added in all the touches at the end on purpose.  The dialog saying no one lived while Shep was clearly moving, the way Anderson jerked around like a puppet on a string, the dream like shadow around the edges of the screen... all of that they did with a purpose in mind.  I really wish I knew someone that could rip these dream sounds apart and analyze them individually.

[ba0987]

Guys I think this whispering fully supports indoctrination...

1) Based on the developer comments from the art book, page 143 titled "The Child" it states that "One child would be the face of the people on Earth whom Shepard could not save"
2) From the book "Retribution", which is now established as canon, we know that indoctrination (2 weeks after Reaper tech is implanted in Grayson) is described as follows, note the use of plurals:

"But when he slept he had dreams-nightmares he could never quite recall on waking, but that left him shivering nonetheless."
"They were inside his head, speaking to him in whispers too faint to understand. There was something simultaneously repulsive yet seductive about them."
"With each passing hour Grayson could feel the whispers growing stronger. More insistant"
"For now he was able to resist them."

Now then, there are some things that I cant get my head around but below is what I beleive:

From the game we know that you are occasionally motivated by the plight of earth and the people you couldn't save... its the reason you didn't want to leave and one of the reasons to go back (this is discussed by Shep a couple of times)... I think, as point 1 describes, this is what the child represents in Sheps mind... he symbolises both your regret and your motivation (your gutted you couldnt save him but you want to put a boot up the reapers arse to get them back for it)

With this said Ill also note that in your very first dream, at the very start, it is lighter, there are no black figures, strange noises or creepy whispers (OK the laughter is creepy) but other than that it would appear the kid is happy playing with his model. I think this represents our mind in a normal state...

As you draw closer to him we see a bright light, then a reaper growl, bit of red light and then the kid runs away scared.

At this point the laughter stops, the music and ambient noises turn sinister.... based on point 2 this could be the start of the reapers indocrination as your next dream heavily involves lots of whispers and lots of black wisps.

I'm thinking that the black splodges are the reapers and maybe the child represents something else completely?

Any thoughts?

Edit: Also note that the whispers werent exactly nice whispers... they were scary and if i hear them in my sleep tonight I dont think Ill sleep again.. but I bet, that like me, you all stood there listening intently because you wanted to know what they were saying which again falls inline with point 2...

Modifié par ba0987, 31 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[aimlessgun]

No sound files or youtube videos in the OP. Unless those are buried somewhere in the thread.

All I heard was voices of dead people I had known speaking, saying things they'd said in previous games. I heard Mordin, I heard Wrex. The shadows very clearly represented the people I'd lost, with the kid representing earth.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 31 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

CheekyWeazel wrote...

If you want to find the Files mentioned in this Thread, its the "wwise_norhub_dreams". Where all the Dead People (Crewman etc) talk is the "nordrm_talking_dead_a_D_Int"

duuuude

I'm only halfway through the thread, so maybe it's been mentioned, but.. ever wondered what those file names stand for?

Because "norhub" sounds to me an awful lot like "normandy hub"...
as in.. there might be an indoctrination device in there

[BinaryHelix101]

aimlessgun wrote...

No sound files or youtube videos in the OP. Unless those are buried somewhere in the thread.

All I heard was voices of dead people I had known speaking, saying things they'd said in previous games. I heard Mordin, I heard Wrex. The shadows very clearly represented the people I'd lost, with the kid representing earth.

First at 4:41 then from 8:00 onwards... there are some strange comments in those dreams, and they're not your dead partymembers either.

[aimlessgun]

BinaryHelix101 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

No sound files or youtube videos in the OP. Unless those are buried somewhere in the thread.

All I heard was voices of dead people I had known speaking, saying things they'd said in previous games. I heard Mordin, I heard Wrex. The shadows very clearly represented the people I'd lost, with the kid representing earth.

First at 4:41 then from 8:00 onwards... there are some strange comments in those dreams, and they're not your dead partymembers either.

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, just like the poster of the video, try as I might I cannot hear any statements that are distinguishable. 

[legaldinho]

aimlessgun wrote...

No sound files or youtube videos in the OP. Unless those are buried somewhere in the thread.

All I heard was voices of dead people I had known speaking, saying things they'd said in previous games. I heard Mordin, I heard Wrex. The shadows very clearly represented the people I'd lost, with the kid representing earth.

[legaldinho]

for me it's very clear. from 7.50 onwards the vid shows there is someone saying something, probably undecipherable, using harbingers filter. Or a reaper's at least. I really don't care what it says: key q. is why is there? And why does it get stronger as you approach the kid?

I was astounded when I first heard it, and concluded that it fits with the imagery that the child is an ill omen for shep. Caution, Danger, Warning- and now this. So Bioware, for me, left some clues and these -point to the ending being open to an alternative interpretation.

Modifié par legaldinho, 31 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[dgumb]

Small bump because there's another thread about this now, just want to make sure people see both. Interesting stuff.

[kogunenjou]

One of the more subtle hints to Shepard being indoctrinated (and this is irrelevant to the OP, but I thought I should bring it up in this thread anyway) is when you're talking to Ashley after she kills Udina (I believe that's when it happens, not entirely certain). She says "How do we fight an enemy that can worm its way into your head?" The camera immediately pans to Shepard and zooms in slowly.

[David Bergsma]

I can't hear anything specific, english is not my motherlanguage I don't understand a thing listening those whispers. They sound all the same to me lol

[Enichan]

Shooter__Andy wrote...

Has anyone tried reversing the less-human voices that you can hear near the kid? They sound reversed.

Dunno if it was the sound you mentioned but I pulled reaper-like audio from another Youtube video discussing this, and ran it through various routines in Audacity trying to get something intelligable out of it. I'm not a super sound engineer, but if the one I was looking at was supposed to mean something they made it pretty much impossible to reverse engineer.

Which kinda defeats the purpose of a hidden message, I think.

So, while I like the Indoc Theory, put me in the "nope, nothing there" camp.

[KillerHappyFace]

aimlessgun wrote...

No sound files or youtube videos in the OP. Unless those are buried somewhere in the thread.

I think the thread is sufficiently long that sifting through it will take quite a bit of time. May I request that the OP quotes a bunch of the filenames and links?

Grasich wrote...
If it wasn't for their blatant damage control
attempts, I would be a FIRM believer in the IDT. Most of Mass Effect 1
and 2 are full of little things like this (such as the Song of the
Rachni in ME1). A lot of people refer to Mass Effect's storytelling as
being "ham fisted", but that is completely incorrect. It appears so on
the surface, but if you really dig around and pay attention, you are
given a TON of incorrect information, and are lied to on a regular
basis. (And this is not the result of bad storytelling or plotholes, but
simply that, unlike most games, characters in ME tell you what they
think, not what is necessarily the truth.)

This is exactly my sentiment. There's definitely something going on behind a lot of these scenes. If it were IDT, however, Bioware wouldn't have turtled up like they did. Even Jessica Merizan's unofficial confirmations balk at the sheer amount of PR Bioware has been pumping out.

[Fixers0]

Creepy.

[ky0dar]

Yeah, I know that the whispers are saying something, but buggered if i can hear it. It's all just white noise.
You know like the white noise they use in sensory deprivation torture? Where they block out your eyesight and blast disorienting noise at you, with the intent of hampering your higher brain functions, possibly increasing your suggestibility? That kind of white noise.

[JTP117]

ba0987 wrote...

Guys I think this whispering fully supports indoctrination...

1) Based on the developer comments from the art book, page 143 titled "The Child" it states that "One child would be the face of the people on Earth whom Shepard could not save"
2) From the book "Retribution", which is now established as canon, we know that indoctrination (2 weeks after Reaper tech is implanted in Grayson) is described as follows, note the use of plurals:

"But when he slept he had dreams-nightmares he could never quite recall on waking, but that left him shivering nonetheless."
"They were inside his head, speaking to him in whispers too faint to understand. There was something simultaneously repulsive yet seductive about them."
"With each passing hour Grayson could feel the whispers growing stronger. More insistant"
"For now he was able to resist them."

Now then, there are some things that I cant get my head around but below is what I beleive:

From the game we know that you are occasionally motivated by the plight of earth and the people you couldn't save... its the reason you didn't want to leave and one of the reasons to go back (this is discussed by Shep a couple of times)... I think, as point 1 describes, this is what the child represents in Sheps mind... he symbolises both your regret and your motivation (your gutted you couldnt save him but you want to put a boot up the reapers arse to get them back for it)

With this said Ill also note that in your very first dream, at the very start, it is lighter, there are no black figures, strange noises or creepy whispers (OK the laughter is creepy) but other than that it would appear the kid is happy playing with his model. I think this represents our mind in a normal state...

As you draw closer to him we see a bright light, then a reaper growl, bit of red light and then the kid runs away scared.

At this point the laughter stops, the music and ambient noises turn sinister.... based on point 2 this could be the start of the reapers indocrination as your next dream heavily involves lots of whispers and lots of black wisps.

I'm thinking that the black splodges are the reapers and maybe the child represents something else completely?

Any thoughts?

Edit: Also note that the whispers werent exactly nice whispers... they were scary and if i hear them in my sleep tonight I dont think Ill sleep again.. but I bet, that like me, you all stood there listening intently because you wanted to know what they were saying which again falls inline with point 2...

Dude, well done! I'm glad you brought that direct quote to the table, I really didn't want to read the whole book again

[JTP117]

KillerHappyFace wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

No sound files or youtube videos in the OP. Unless those are buried somewhere in the thread.

I think the thread is sufficiently long that sifting through it will take quite a bit of time. May I request that the OP quotes a bunch of the filenames and links?

Grasich wrote...
If it wasn't for their blatant damage control
attempts, I would be a FIRM believer in the IDT. Most of Mass Effect 1
and 2 are full of little things like this (such as the Song of the
Rachni in ME1). A lot of people refer to Mass Effect's storytelling as
being "ham fisted", but that is completely incorrect. It appears so on
the surface, but if you really dig around and pay attention, you are
given a TON of incorrect information, and are lied to on a regular
basis. (And this is not the result of bad storytelling or plotholes, but
simply that, unlike most games, characters in ME tell you what they
think, not what is necessarily the truth.)

This is exactly my sentiment. There's definitely something going on behind a lot of these scenes. If it were IDT, however, Bioware wouldn't have turtled up like they did. Even Jessica Merizan's unofficial confirmations balk at the sheer amount of PR Bioware has been pumping out.

I'm working on getting the links in there don't worry

[JTP117]

kogunenjou wrote...

One of the more subtle hints to Shepard being indoctrinated (and this is irrelevant to the OP, but I thought I should bring it up in this thread anyway) is when you're talking to Ashley after she kills Udina (I believe that's when it happens, not entirely certain). She says "How do we fight an enemy that can worm its way into your head?" The camera immediately pans to Shepard and zooms in slowly.

I noticed that as well. This happens when Ashley meets you at the Normandy to request that she be allowed to join the crew again.

[Asuka Bianchini]

Pasting from the other thread, this is a really good video from those sequences, watch it!

Hingjon wrote...

And here is my video which contains some very creepy sounds which are located in the dream,

I will later search for the background whispers and try to clear them up and make a vid about it

[JTP117]

This is now in the OP but for those of you who do not go back and look at the edits, please watch this. this vid was sent to the thread via Asuka Bianchini. Thank you very much for your contribution!

www.youtube.com/watch - these are the sound files playing one by one (no overlap) with no video, easier to hear things IMO
around 0:28-0:30 I hear what sounds like "---- me" could be "help me"
0:36-0:39 something is said, hard to hear though
0:45-0:47 "they're all dying" just a re use of the child convo
Demonic sounds starting at 1:00- 2:00
2:45-3:00 Reaper noises not sound alikes, these are real reaper noises, listen for yourself.
3:20-3:46 scary reaper sounds. Seriously. DO NOT listen to this in the dark without a change of pants.

Modifié par JTP117, 01 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[legaldinho]

BUMPING THIS THREAD BECAUSE I FEEL I CONTRIBUTED A BIT.

[Asuka Bianchini]

JTP117 wrote...
3:20-3:46 scary reaper sounds. Seriously. DO NOT listen to this in the dark without a change of pants.

More like the whole video lol