171 réponses à ce sujet

[Merci357]

David Gaider wrote...

I imagine that while, for some, giving the character a first name wouldn't be a big issue, for others it would be crossing yet another line towards set protaganist. How much that first name is actually used probably doesn't matter so much as the idea behind it. Whether choosing from a list would amerliorate that, I'm not sure. For those who prefer to pick their own name, probably not... and those are the people you'd be trying to appease by creating that list in the first place, no?

I don't know. I find it tougher, in a medieval setting, to justify calling someone by a last name-- titles are easier, when they exist, but with close friends or love interests it seems a bit awkward even then. Nicknames would work, but that's not really very different.

Thoughts on the topic are certainly welcome.

Since I don't mind being called Mike (Thorton), Adam (Jensen) or Geralt, I'm likely the wrong person to answer this. However, if there's one thing I dislike it's being called by rank, title or last name without any variance. Most of my companions (or squad mates) wouldn't call me that, at least not after a few quests to "hell and back".

That said, a list of names - even a fixed first name does require multiple recordings of the very same line; at least if you offer a gender choice, and I hope that not even a question I have to ask. So I'd say let companions make much more use of nicknames - those likely fit both genders, and do work quite well. For example, Kasumi in ME2 often said "Shep", not Shepard and never Commander. It's not really a nickname, sure, but at least it's something fresh, something not so serious - Shepard is not her ranking officer, it's more like a partner in crime.

In my view it's a problem just because you are staying in the middle, and not moving more towards a set protagonist. It's a honest question, but why do you shy away from going all the way towards a set protagonist, while having a cinematic game with a voiced protagonist as pillars of your game design? DA3 is maybe not the right game to try it, but I'd love to see BioWare's take on this, after enjoying said DE:HR, AP, TW2.

Modifié par Merci357, 28 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[Maria Caliban]

Merci357 wrote...

In my view it's a problem just because you are staying in the middle, and not moving more towards a set protagonist. It's a honest question, but why do you shy away from going all the way towards a set protagonist, while having a cinematic game with a voiced protagonist as pillars of your game design? DA3 is maybe not the right game to try it, but I'd love to see BioWare's take on this, after enjoying said DE:HR, AP, TW2.

I like set protagonists.

Other than the fact that they're almost always straight, white men.

[Dejajeva]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

In my view it's a problem just because you are staying in the middle, and not moving more towards a set protagonist. It's a honest question, but why do you shy away from going all the way towards a set protagonist, while having a cinematic game with a voiced protagonist as pillars of your game design? DA3 is maybe not the right game to try it, but I'd love to see BioWare's take on this, after enjoying said DE:HR, AP, TW2.

I like set protagonists.

Other than the fact that they're almost always straight, white men.

+1

Mostly.
I don't care if you pick my characters first name, but make it an AWESOME first name. Like Jessica. *coughs*

[dream_operator23]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like set protagonists.

Other than the fact that they're almost always straight, white men.

Yeah, that's my problem with them too. 

[Big I]

I don't care about set names. In DA2 and the ME trilogy I usually just went with the default names.

My only concern for setting the names in stone is the effect it would have on race selection. "Hawke" or "Shepard" worked because they're humans, I doubt it would have sounded as convincing with elf or quarian protagonists.

[Sister Goldring]

 I think the nickname option would be great. I really liked it in ME3 when James gave Shepherd a nickname and I thought it was super-cute when Varric gave the other NPC's nicknames in DA2.
 
It also seems that this would be the most easily implemented option to personalise the NPC PC interactions without removing a player's capacity to name their character.
 
To me it sometimes feels very artificial and impersonal to be referred to by a title or a surname regardless of the nature of the conversation or the relationship of the characters.
 
I guess an easy (cheesy) solution for LI's would be to have them call the PC by an endearment instead of their name in appropriate conversations........maybe not ' my widdle fluffy-bunnikins' though 

[Shevy]

I have no problem with being called by the last name because thats what happens to me every day by my friends. Screw those catchy last names! ;(

And yeah, being able to choose the first name of my created character is part of make him my character so I don't want to miss that.

[Ladybright]

I don't mind my character being referred to by a title or a nickname. I would not want the option to name my character taken away. The character creation process is very important to me, and names are part of that. I pick names that will inform part of my character or my character's backstory, even though that backstory might never come into the actual game.

Off the top of my head: Lillian Hawke was originally named something horribly awkward by Leandra, but Malcom  intervened at the last minute and they decided to name her Lillian after Malcolm's mother and grandmother. Lillian has never felt quite comfortable with the name's history -- she idolizes her father but it seems that she'll never quite live up to her family legacy on either side: the power and wealth of the Amells or the accomplishments of the women whose name she carries. Blah, blah, blah.

Terribad example, but I hope my point is clear?

While I -could- come to like a protagonist with a set name -- indeed, I am sure I'd like playing them just as much as I like playing other Bioware protags, which is a lot -- I do prefer naming my own characters. 

That said, I am a sucker for good voice acting, so using the name in dialogue would be a plus for set names.
I am of mixed feelings about a list of selectable, voiced names. I think so long as the names were good I'd be down. No Eggberts, no Madh'ysy'nhs, and some variety in the list to allow for different backstories or cultural flavors. It strikes me that this option would lead to a lot of extra voice acting costs, though.

If the protag had a nickname everyone called them, I would hope for a chance to react to it, even if that little conversation didn't wind up changing the nickname.

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like set protagonists.

Other than the fact that they're almost always straight, white men.

Yeah, that part kinda sucks.

Modifié par Ladybright, 28 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[JediHealerCosmin]

For the most part, I agree with Mr. Gaider's statement. Being a medieval age, I always enjoy seeing someone refer to the protagonist by his/her title.

From a production standpoint, I really have no idea how a programmer would possibly make our PC's first name pronouncable by the other NPCs (let's also bear in mind that people are insane and won't hesitate to make up a stupid first name just to hear their game say some curse word or another) without making a set character. And that's a topic which I honestly don't agree with. It's just another step closer to making a lot of things canon. And I hate that with all of my being when it comes to RPGs.

Modifié par JediHealerCosmin, 28 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like set protagonists.

Other than the fact that they're almost always straight, white men.

Amen.

Well, with one exception. If a series of games has always had character creation in the past, including gender selection, and that series is a serial following the player's character (not a set character), I will hate it when the PC is suddenly canonised, set, and unchangable.

Ultima series, I'm looking at you.

(For the record, straight, white male. Also blond.)

Dragon Age, however, with its decision to change the protagonist every game, gets a bit of a pass there. I'd still be disappointed if it went to set PC/Name because my first love is RPGs with ye olde char creation, but I wouldn't feel like the devs were flushing my character of 7 games down the toilet. That...makes me nerdrage. Just a bit.

As Bioware is perceived to be one of the last great RPG studios, however, I expect there'd be quite a bit more upset if character creation was shaved further.

David, I don't suppose Bioware's mysterious telemetry stats reveal how many people used character creation vs how many went for a default Hawke? I won't ask for numbers since it sounds like you can't bandy them around anyway, but if they exist are you able to shed some light on if there was a significant divide in which method was favoured for DA2, and to which side the numbers favoured?

[esper]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

In my view it's a problem just because you are staying in the middle, and not moving more towards a set protagonist. It's a honest question, but why do you shy away from going all the way towards a set protagonist, while having a cinematic game with a voiced protagonist as pillars of your game design? DA3 is maybe not the right game to try it, but I'd love to see BioWare's take on this, after enjoying said DE:HR, AP, TW2.

I like set protagonists.

Other than the fact that they're almost always straight, white men.

I don't like set protagonist for this reason.
If I want a set one I go to a jrpg. They have more experience and often do it better anyway since I am forced to play a straight, man, plus it is mostly party based games so I identify myself with the whole party. If I had to play only a man throughoyt the whole game I wouldn't enjoy it.

I didn't touch De:HR or the witcher for these exact reason. And I never will. I refuse to play a man in a crpg. and Alfra protocol was thrown out after only five minutes when I realised that I have to play a white, straight, male solider (spy,).

[Shevy]

Speaking of character creation here, I would like to see some body adjustments. Like a slider for height, body fat , muscle mass and so on. I hate to have to play a mage with the ripped muscle body of a warrior. I know it would be a lot of extra work to adjust the armors, but I wonder if there isn't a technology to make armor auto adjust to body measure?

That said I love Saints Row The Third character creator, nearly endless fun.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

esper wrote...

I refuse to play a man in a crpg. and Alfra protocol was thrown out after only five minutes when I realised that I have to play a white, straight, male solider (spy,).

No Planescape: Torment, then?

You're missing out.

[esper]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

esper wrote...

I refuse to play a man in a crpg. and Alfra protocol was thrown out after only five minutes when I realised that I have to play a white, straight, male solider (spy,).

No Planescape: Torment, then?

You're missing out.

I don't care. Jrpg are the only one I tolerate male protagonist in. And only to a certain degree.

[AkiKishi]

I would not touch a game with a fixed gay protagonist so I guess I sort of see where people are coming from to a degree.
Almost always male does not apply to the games I've played recently, it's more a 50/50 split. I do remember when they released X-2 a lot of people did not want to play an all girl party. In XIII-2 it's sort of shared between Sarah and Noel.

How I look at it is something like this. Take a game with a fixed protagonist and then imagine what would need to change in order to add those variables. It's a suprising ammount of work, and it leads to a much more watered down game and character.
In DA and the like you can deal with it because the game leaves you the space to fill in the blanks in your imagination. But once things become semi fixed, that route is blocked off.

Using Deus Ex as my favourite current example. I really enjoyed seeing things from the perspective of Adam Jensen, there was also enough variation that I could choose my route through the game and the game respected and acknowledged those choices. Ironically to a greater degree than Hawke in DA2 which supposedly offered more freedom.

[Dutchess]

 I don't know, nickname could work, but it would be weird if every companion came up with a different nickname for you. And the nickname should fit. It really came out of nowhere for me when Ashley started calling my female Shepard "skipper" in ME1. That bossy lady with such a... strict voice is now skipper? Ehr... O_o 
Perhaps you could have the nickname introduced by the protagnist, with that it was how family or youth friends used to call him/her. Like how Zevran says "Zev to my friends", but then obviously not with the first name. 
I suppose I could live with a list of names to pick from, but I prefer to be able to choose the first name myself. It really gives a personal touch to it. I like it I can name my Warden "Bartimaeus". 

[esper]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I would not touch a game with a fixed gay protagonist so I guess I sort of see where people are coming from to a degree.
Almost always male does not apply to the games I've played recently, it's more a 50/50 split. I do remember when they released X-2 a lot of people did not want to play an all girl party. In XIII-2 it's sort of shared between Sarah and Noel.

How I look at it is something like this. Take a game with a fixed protagonist and then imagine what would need to change in order to add those variables. It's a suprising ammount of work, and it leads to a much more watered down game and character.
In DA and the like you can deal with it because the game leaves you the space to fill in the blanks in your imagination. But once things become semi fixed, that route is blocked off.

Using Deus Ex as my favourite current example. I really enjoyed seeing things from the perspective of Adam Jensen, there was also enough variation that I could choose my route through the game and the game respected and acknowledged those choices. Ironically to a greater degree than Hawke in DA2 which supposedly offered more freedom.

But I won't touch Deus Ex or the Witcher so I don't care how great their stories is.

[AkiKishi]

esper wrote...

I don't care. Jrpg are the only one I tolerate male protagonist in. And only to a certain degree.

Until I played FFX-2 I never once had a female PC. I still don't touch female PC romances (unless lesbian) but playing as a female is not such a big deal anymore.


I don't get why it's ok in one medium but not others?

Modifié par BobSmith101, 28 mars 2012 - 09:37 .

[NedPepper]

Calling me Hawke or Shepard or Champion or Commander is fine. I don't want first names taken away. Talk about taking away choices...no way.

And besides, when it comes to my friends in my life, we usually go by last names or nicknames anyway. This doesn't bother me at all. To me, this really would lead us away from what makes a "RPG".

[esper]

renjility wrote...

 I don't know, nickname could work, but it would be weird if every companion came up with a different nickname for you. And the nickname should fit. It really came out of nowhere for me when Ashley started calling my female Shepard "skipper" in ME1. That bossy lady with such a... strict voice is now skipper? Ehr... O_o 
Perhaps you could have the nickname introduced by the protagnist, with that it was how family or youth friends used to call him/her. Like how Zevran says "Zev to my friends", but then obviously not with the first name. 
I suppose I could live with a list of names to pick from, but I prefer to be able to choose the first name myself. It really gives a personal touch to it. I like it I can name my Warden "Bartimaeus". 

I still prefer suikoden five metod off having the name displayed in the subtitles... The problem with Nicknames is that they can be horrible.

[AkiKishi]

nedpepper wrote...

Calling me Hawke or Shepard or Champion or Commander is fine. I don't want first names taken away. Talk about taking away choices...no way.

And besides, when it comes to my friends in my life, we usually go by last names or nicknames anyway. This doesn't bother me at all. To me, this really would lead us away from what makes a "RPG".

Does it really matter ? 

You input a name that has no bearing what so ever on the game, is never acknowledged by anyone and leads to some very strange conversations because everyone must either refer to you by a title or lastname. John/Jane, makes no difference, you can call Male Shepard Sue and no one in the ME world will bat an eyelid.
Same is true of appearence. It has no function outside of giving some sense of ownership to the player and has you can see from these and other boards, that's not always a good thing, especially when the game does not follow through on that theme.

[esper]

Sense of ownership is important, though.

[AkiKishi]

esper wrote...

Sense of ownership is important, though.

Well I kind of agree, but only if the game carries that through. Otherwise it's more like a false promise. I don't mind either way I just want to clear on what sort of experience the game is offering.

[NedPepper]

Shevy_001 wrote...

Speaking of character creation here, I would like to see some body adjustments. Like a slider for height, body fat , muscle mass and so on. I hate to have to play a mage with the ripped muscle body of a warrior. I know it would be a lot of extra work to adjust the armors, but I wonder if there isn't a technology to make armor auto adjust to body measure?

That said I love Saints Row The Third character creator, nearly endless fun.

This!!!  Part of the fun of RPGs is the character creation.  More options is always a good thing.

[Wulfram]

It's not just "ownership", it's differentiation. The sense that you're playing different characters, not the same one over and over.

Appearance also makes the cinematics more interesting on replays, since you're seeing something that's at least somewhat new.