How hard is nightmare in DA2 compared to nightmare in DA:O? I realize the game mechanics has changed enough that it may be a little difficult to a direct comparison but just looking for a general sense (2x harder than DA:O? 3x)?
In DA:O bightmare, I would rip though the game, especially towards the later half once I got the higher end gear and talents. Of course I had such knowledge of the tricks of the games that made it easy. I'm wondering if nightmare ever gets like that.
And how is "hard" between the two games?
Nightmare difficulty comapred to DA:O
Débuté par
keesio74
, mars 26 2012 07:47
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#2
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:31
SuicidalBaby
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Nightmare DA:O is a joke compared to DA2 Nightmare, especially in version 1.0 of DA2. Recent patches have made things easier, but there are tricks that help you deal with certain elements such as rogues.
The big issue you will have to contend with is immunities. Make this reference sheet your friend.
The second biggest issue you will have to contend with is there is no weapon swap in DA2. There is a mod for this on the nexus. Very easy to install.
The 3rd issue is friendly fire. The most recent patch limited any single friendly fire attack you perform on your allies to 75% of their total health rather than the entire value. So things like Walking bomb will not kill your team with an explosion of 800 hp points from a normal enemy, instead it will just take a huge chunk out of them if they are near by. You can use ward runes to lower this depending on which class you want but these are limited to 95% efficiency as of patch 1.04. 5% does not sound like a lot of damage, if you Walking bomb an elite at the end of act 2 you are looking at over 10000 damage, +20k if it cross class combos for full value. The 75% limit will only be in affect after the 95% is taken so it is almost meaningless to ward against it. There are varied tactics to avoid this.
The game is faster so you have more damage incoming faster and since the difficulty went up, so will damage. You can heal through it, or you can remove it before it does enough damage to kill you. It is suggested you move toward the later strategy as this will save you many frustrating moments.
Consider your group make up more when playing on Nightmare as they have to work together and not against each other in order to succeed. If you are using a 1h warrior, you can pair it with a melee rogue with out issue when using proper tactics. That combination will not work in the same manner if you have a 2h warrior instead as almost all of their special abilities will certainly kill the rogue in short order. The most common group in Nightmare has only 1 melee, a tank or rogue, or none at all. The 3 mage, 1 ranged rogue group is entirely capable throughout the whole of the game as all large area of affect spells become carte blanch with no worry of a hapless ally getting in the way. A PC Force Mage becomes incredibly powerful in this situation.
As long as you plan ahead, you should be ok. I would not suggest you start a Nightmare run with out consulting my Tactics guide. As far as group make up there are several other guides available that will give you a sense of what I have talked about through videos and general builds and tactics. All of these are linked to in my signature.
GL in Nightmare.
The big issue you will have to contend with is immunities. Make this reference sheet your friend.
The second biggest issue you will have to contend with is there is no weapon swap in DA2. There is a mod for this on the nexus. Very easy to install.
The 3rd issue is friendly fire. The most recent patch limited any single friendly fire attack you perform on your allies to 75% of their total health rather than the entire value. So things like Walking bomb will not kill your team with an explosion of 800 hp points from a normal enemy, instead it will just take a huge chunk out of them if they are near by. You can use ward runes to lower this depending on which class you want but these are limited to 95% efficiency as of patch 1.04. 5% does not sound like a lot of damage, if you Walking bomb an elite at the end of act 2 you are looking at over 10000 damage, +20k if it cross class combos for full value. The 75% limit will only be in affect after the 95% is taken so it is almost meaningless to ward against it. There are varied tactics to avoid this.
The game is faster so you have more damage incoming faster and since the difficulty went up, so will damage. You can heal through it, or you can remove it before it does enough damage to kill you. It is suggested you move toward the later strategy as this will save you many frustrating moments.
Consider your group make up more when playing on Nightmare as they have to work together and not against each other in order to succeed. If you are using a 1h warrior, you can pair it with a melee rogue with out issue when using proper tactics. That combination will not work in the same manner if you have a 2h warrior instead as almost all of their special abilities will certainly kill the rogue in short order. The most common group in Nightmare has only 1 melee, a tank or rogue, or none at all. The 3 mage, 1 ranged rogue group is entirely capable throughout the whole of the game as all large area of affect spells become carte blanch with no worry of a hapless ally getting in the way. A PC Force Mage becomes incredibly powerful in this situation.
As long as you plan ahead, you should be ok. I would not suggest you start a Nightmare run with out consulting my Tactics guide. As far as group make up there are several other guides available that will give you a sense of what I have talked about through videos and general builds and tactics. All of these are linked to in my signature.
GL in Nightmare.
Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 26 mars 2012 - 08:34 .
#3
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 04:25
alchemist42
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Well if you’re a decent player, nightmare is where you end up playing by default. First you learn on normal, that gets too easy, move to hard, same thing eventually… and so on to nightmare to keep the game fresh and challenging, this is where tactics, build, strategy, team synergy really come into play and the game shines with brilliance. My young son completed DA2 in 15hrs on normal, I was astonished by this, I asked him what tactics he setup up for each character, he replied… what are tactics ?
Anyway, apart from the obvious, enemies have more health, you get more elites, more waves
Friendly fire: Fire bombing the place will kill your team right, so equip them with fire resist runes. Line up a deadly arrow shot so it doesn’t pass through the enemy and kill your rogue standing behind him. Friendly fire from your tank is also a problem, so use 1 tank and 3 ranged to avoid this. And so on.
Immunities: - learn the immunities and weaknesses of your enemies i.e. dragons are immune to fire, weak to cold right. Often its obvious when an attack fails and team members will often shout out when the attack isn’t working, so change weapons and tactics.
CCC: cross class combo, need to learn these to survive the bosses, CCC allows you to hit hard and fast before they get a chance to power up, i.e. mage freezes an enemy and then your rogue or warrior deals huge damage using a special ability that takes advantage of this frozen state.
Anyway, apart from the obvious, enemies have more health, you get more elites, more waves
Friendly fire: Fire bombing the place will kill your team right, so equip them with fire resist runes. Line up a deadly arrow shot so it doesn’t pass through the enemy and kill your rogue standing behind him. Friendly fire from your tank is also a problem, so use 1 tank and 3 ranged to avoid this. And so on.
Immunities: - learn the immunities and weaknesses of your enemies i.e. dragons are immune to fire, weak to cold right. Often its obvious when an attack fails and team members will often shout out when the attack isn’t working, so change weapons and tactics.
CCC: cross class combo, need to learn these to survive the bosses, CCC allows you to hit hard and fast before they get a chance to power up, i.e. mage freezes an enemy and then your rogue or warrior deals huge damage using a special ability that takes advantage of this frozen state.
Modifié par alchemist42, 27 mars 2012 - 04:26 .
#4
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 11:11
Mysterygent
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How strong is your thumb?? For nightmare DA2, your thumb will be hitting alot of buttons.
#5
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 02:21
SuicidalBaby
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Mysterygent wrote...
How strong is your thumb?? For nightmare DA2, your thumb will be hitting alot of buttons.
are you trying to come off as a mentally challenged child, because it's succeeding.
#6
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 02:39
SSH83
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DA:O's nightmare falls apart completely after you learn how to maximize rogue damage output, even without mage CC. While DA2 nightmare is a lot more complex, and optimizing character build is only the beginning. Execution of combo takes a lot of planning, skill and practice because most of the effect window is 1 second or less. So when you're trying to open with vulnerability hex, then squeeze in a series of 3 attacks that need to happen in sequence, plus making sure everyone is in range and are not in friendly fire range, etc... then have it all happen in the span of 1~2 seconds (game time, not real time, since you pause)... it makes a tactial RPG with unlimited pausing feel exciting. It also brings back the maticulous planning fun for the hardcore players (but hipsters with as much skill as a drunken 90-yr-old grandma would claim nightmare is impossible, thus it doesn't count and game is too "easy" otherwise).
I played DA2 nightmare in v1.0 in my first playthrough, never lowered difficulty for anything. Many fights are nothing short of epic. If some fights seem impossible at first, take a step back and try to think outside the box, and rethink your priorities. ex: always go for max damage might be the only thing you need to think about in DA:O, but in DA2... it gets a lot more complex in Nightmare.
Saving your damage output and timing your damage output are two main keys to success in DA2 nightmare. Every point of damage you wasted in overkilling an enemy in wave 1 can mean the point of damage you could've used to kill an elite rogue in wave 2. Doing 500 damage then wait 2 seconds and then 500 more usually won't be enough to kill a primary target with 1k health when they can get healed or instant gib your guy given the delay.
Then defensively, you also have to consider a lot, when you have opportunity for combo, do you want to use that offensively or defensively. You can also use offensive attack for defensive purposes for example. Then making sure your party formation is always perfect since even martial attacks have friendly fire. Then there's also conservation of healing poultice, puttig them way in your storage while you're out adventuring, so that when you're going to a big fight, you an have 30+ health poutice without spending a penny.
I don't really know how to grade 2x harder or 3x harder between the two, but the main thing is that DA2 nightmare just stays challenging all the way through, and it just has more depth.
On the other hand, DA2's "hard" difficulty is pretty much DA:O's easiest difficult. While DA2's normal difficulty... you can just close your eyes and still win. lol
I played DA2 nightmare in v1.0 in my first playthrough, never lowered difficulty for anything. Many fights are nothing short of epic. If some fights seem impossible at first, take a step back and try to think outside the box, and rethink your priorities. ex: always go for max damage might be the only thing you need to think about in DA:O, but in DA2... it gets a lot more complex in Nightmare.
Saving your damage output and timing your damage output are two main keys to success in DA2 nightmare. Every point of damage you wasted in overkilling an enemy in wave 1 can mean the point of damage you could've used to kill an elite rogue in wave 2. Doing 500 damage then wait 2 seconds and then 500 more usually won't be enough to kill a primary target with 1k health when they can get healed or instant gib your guy given the delay.
Then defensively, you also have to consider a lot, when you have opportunity for combo, do you want to use that offensively or defensively. You can also use offensive attack for defensive purposes for example. Then making sure your party formation is always perfect since even martial attacks have friendly fire. Then there's also conservation of healing poultice, puttig them way in your storage while you're out adventuring, so that when you're going to a big fight, you an have 30+ health poutice without spending a penny.
I don't really know how to grade 2x harder or 3x harder between the two, but the main thing is that DA2 nightmare just stays challenging all the way through, and it just has more depth.
On the other hand, DA2's "hard" difficulty is pretty much DA:O's easiest difficult. While DA2's normal difficulty... you can just close your eyes and still win. lol
Modifié par SSH83, 01 avril 2012 - 02:58 .
#7
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 04:45
keesio74
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SSH83 wrote...
DA:O's nightmare falls apart completely after you learn how to maximize rogue damage output, even without mage CC.
yeah. I played DW rogue. When I upgraded to the best daggers (the Rose's Thorn) and got the top talents, I mowed everyone down. That and storm of the century.
SSH83 wrote...
On the other hand, DA2's "hard" difficulty is pretty much DA:O's easiest difficult. While DA2's normal difficulty... you can just close your eyes and still win. lol
Are you saying DA2 "Hard" = DA:O "Casual"? I don't know about that. I find DA2 Hard fairly challenging, even with mircomgmt. I can't imagine DA:O "Casual" giving me any challenge.
