262 réponses à ce sujet

[Spartan_TT117]

What has made gamers look bad is the incivility of a few.  You can see it on the boards.

There are those that discuss the problems and suggest constructive solutions calmly.

And there are those that BASH, BASH, BASH, :oBLEEP:o, :oBLEEP:o, :oBLEEP:o and choose to be destructive, rather than constructive in their actions.

Unfortunately those that act badly seem to garner the most attention.

[Jedifan421]

Tovanus wrote...
One reviewer put it best when he said that, "No one with artistic integrity would have released an ending like this." Even a dark ending might have been a lot more appreciated if only the ending sequence wasn't riddled with plotholes. Hell, they could have given us closure in the form of epilogues discussing the implications of Shepherd's actions hundreds or thousands of years in the future when the various organic races could make contact again.

Every time someone writes an article about the ending without actually discussing why it's considered a failure by so many (they don't even need to do the whole discussion themselves, they can just link to one of the reviewers who has), you can be guaranteed that the author of the article has no idea what they're talking about or defending.

I don't think any objective writer would want to defend anything so bad as the ME 3 ending if they actually had to take time to dissect it.

This.

If all journalists did some quick research nowadays instead of making articles that can have flashy, attractive headlines but have little to no intrinsic value, especially highly regarded magazines like the New Yorker, then maybe this whole ending issue would have a much greater consensus in the media. The gaming press should focus on WHY the fans are upset about the ending and NOT what the ending's artistic merits or not.

We all get it. Videogames are art.

No one is really going to dispute that videogames are now a recognized art form. Look the Smithsonian Institute and their recent exhibit on videogames. 20 years ago, they would have NEVER done something like this. The same thing happened with comics until around the 1970's and 1980's when a tonal shift in comics along with graphic novels and the like began its transition into being considered an art form.

[Oldbones2]

"Sophisticated audiences" what an ass that writer is.

[WizenSlinky0]

I like the fact we're getting hugely divergent points of view in this situation. Culture experts, trend analyzers, game reviewers, fans, mass media, business expects, etc. So many different perspectives makes for a great debate.

I am however disappointed in the tone that most of these perspectives have been taking. It's disgraceful, not for those being attacked, but for the person who believes they need to make such comments to make their point. It's just as bad, if not worse considering their "positions", as the minority of fans who take things way too far that they seem to consider the majority.

It's a shame. But I do understand a lot of the points against changing the ending. Still I think it is inherently a good thing to be able to improve on things rather than just saying "hindsight is 20/20, lets move on".

[xsdob]

As someone who didn't mind the endings but acknowledges peoples rights to demand change, and as someone who has identified as a gamer and subscribes to games being a legitimate form of artistic medium, I am doubly offended here.

This article couldn't better encapsulate the problem gaming faces in today's media. The fact that games and gamers are not taken seriously as art, and that any attempt to do so is brushed off by elitist like Taylor Clark. He gives such blatant insults towards all gamers, because he thinks were too intellectually challenged to ever glance at a news article, let alone the new yorker. And yet on the off chance that a gamer stumble on this and can read, he covers his ass by insulting games as an art form cause he again thinks that any gamer who see this will be too dumb to notice that he's insulting the medium we care for so much about and think they're siding with us.

Here's and idea, how about we take a day off form the retake mass effect movement and make a petition to raise awareness of gamer bigotry shown in this article. Cause I would much rather see this guy apologize for literally insulting me and my intelligence than have casey hudson apologize for making an ending that I didn't think was up to par.

[rfalzar]

Honestly, I'm sick of the artistic integrity argument. Games are not art like books are movies and if they keep getting compared to them, they will be its downfall. Books and movies do not share the same level of interactivity that video games have, so please do not compare the two/three. They are their own artistic medium, one where the fans are as important to creating it as are the developers, but it seems many people fail to understand this and want to lump them together with everything else. Nobody said it was a dangerous precedent or a catering to fans when Bethesda decided to add Broken Steel to Fallout 3. They basically didn't even defend themselves and say "No this was the ending, the fans just want us to continue." They came out, admitted they messed up, and moved on. Why is it suddenly such a big deal for ME3, a game that has the same amount if not more player choice than Fallout 3?

As for the article, I read the first few paragraphs and it seemed like the journalist had no idea what he was talking about other than stereotypes that people think a "typical" gamer is. So congrats to him, he knows how to stereotype.

[Thompson family]

Makes the "bad day for art" argument again, but otherwise good.

Anyone arguing that this turn of events is bad for art should consider this possibility:

That the game's ending was cut short for the commercial purpose of selling DLC. That art is the victim here in the first place.

I realize BioWare's in an impossible "prove your innocence" situation here in the minds of some, but it is a fact that the loving attention to detail that ME3 shows in every moment leading up to the end makes that sudden "That's all folks" ending all the more jarring.

Refund Guy got better closure that Shep did.

OK, that was harsh, but you see what I mean.

Therefore, if I agreed with the "Betrayal of Art" argument, which I don't for reasons I won't go into again, I'd still have nagging doubt if what really happened here was a cold, calculated -- and artless -- business move.

Modifié par Thompson family, 27 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[d.nichols]

I agree with the article in that the ending is terrible... abyssmal even. I agree that it shouldn't be changed. But the way this guy PRESENTS himself is insulting to me. He's such an elitist douche, goddamn, everything he says in the article wreaks of "better than you".

[xsdob]

Thompson family wrote...

Makes the "bad day for art" argument again, but otherwise good.

Anyone arguing that this turn of events is bad for art should consider this possibility:

That the game's ending was cut short for the commercial purpose of selling DLC. That art is the victim here in the first place.

I realize BioWare's in an impossible "prove your innocence" situation here in the minds of some, but it is a fact that the loving attention to detail that ME3 shows in every moment leading up to the end makes that sudden "That's all folks" ending all the more jarring.

Refund Guy got better closure that Shep did.

OK, that was harsh, but you see what I mean.

Therefore, if I agreed with the "Betrayal of Art" argument, which I don't for reasons I won't go into again, I'd still have nagging doubt if what really happened here was a cold, calculated -- and artless -- business move.

I suppose the blatent insults to gamers intellegence and maturity weren't an issue with you than?

[mothbanquet]

For a long time there, I thought Buzz Killington wrote the article.

I may just quit gaming altogether now. Seems much more stressful than it used to be...

Modifié par mothbanquet, 27 mars 2012 - 07:31 .

[KevTheGamer]

video games are not art. that is like saying NBA 2k is an art or madden is an art form. Is monopoly an art form now? I bet sleeping will be considered art next week

[Petrikles]

The author of the article is contradicting himself. He admits the ending is "vague and self-contradicting", but, somehow, "demanding the game be changed simply contributes to the bowdlerization of a work, and a medium, that they hold dear". In other words, we have to take errors without being allowed to correct them? And that is supposed to be because "in real life, there are some things that no amount of heroism can overcome". This guy needs a very urgent update on logic thinking.

Modifié par Kailord, 27 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Lucy Glitter]

jds1bio wrote...

BioWare cut off my supply of Mountain Dew Game Fuel, and then I became so enraged that I did my best Annie Wilkes impression and forced Ray Muzyka to cave in to my demands to revise the ending.  

Omg, the image of that in my mind made me laugh so hard. 

In other news; that article is... not really an article. It spends half the time off-point.

[Johanna]

Rabidlamb wrote...

Artistic integrity:

What the

[admcmei]

I understand the writer. Sometimes we see a controversy and are tempted to think we can have and voice an opinion on it even if we don't go into the specifics, because there seems to be some "principle" at stake. Most of these times, we're WRONG and end up looking like total douchebags to the people involved who actually know what they're talking about. At some point in life you should learn that absolutes in life are very very few and every situation is different and should be analyzed before being judged.

[NedPepper]

dmonorato wrote...

It's funny none of these people spewing the " Artistic Integrity" crap did not even consider games art, that is until the controversy over the ME3 endings started. I have always thought "some" video games as art, mainly RPG type games....The thing that the Artistic Integrity people seem to forget, with out player input in constructing the story, its an incomplete work. Especially in games where your choices effect the story ie. the Mass Effect series.

Why are you trying to speak for everyone?  You know what draws me to game, particularly Bioware games?  They strive to create an artisitc vision.  They always have.  In fact, I daresay it's why you are are a fan and it's also why you're disappointed.  The point of art is to get you invested, to create complex feelings.

It worked.

Now you want them to change it because it left you feeling a complex emotion you don't like.  That's the disconnect. 

And another thing.  Everyone says the endings are "bad".  Well, if it's what and Mac and Casey envisioned, and they're happy with it, who are you to demand them to change it?  That's the crux of this agrument.  Why is this medium the only  medium where fans can dictate the vision of the story?  

If Bioware decides to placate you, be grateful.  I think it shows a weakness on their part, but to even consider changing their ending because you are screaming and crying shows at the end of the day, Bioware  is willing to sacrifice artistic integrirty for the appeasment of a vocal, obsessive fanbase.  I don't agree with it.  I think it sets a horrible precedent.  But you're getting what you want.  I can tell you now, a director or a novelist would call you simply entitled and probably say, "I'm sorry you didn't like it.  Hopefully you'll like the next offering."   Which, in my opinion, is the way it should be.  It's the point of this article, it's been the point of numerous articles.  The only people who don't seem to understand this idea are unfortuantely the so called "fans".