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I just witnessed the ending...


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#1
GunGrave TZA

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 ...And it wasn't anywhere close to what I was expecting it to be.

Left, right and center all I have been hearing is how awful the ending is, how abrupt it is, how many plot holes it creates and how there's no true closure. Immediately upon seeing the ending, I knew it was good. Great? No. I'm sure there was a way they could have improved it so that the emotional impact was stronger and so that the narrative felt more complete. But is it the travesty that many fans of the series are claiming it to be? Far from it.

For one, the issue with closure. You see that your squadmates, the people you have spent years getting to know in the previous entries, are perfectly fine. This was the case in my ending, and the case with at least ten of the other endings. I was satisfied with this because I saw that they would be able to continue their lives, and never forget the sacrafice of Commander Shepard and what he did to save the galaxy. All of the other key characters you had met have their closure as well. You either see them participating in the final battle to save Earth, showing how the numerous galactic races have all bonded together to fight this unimaginable force - thus promising at least temporary peace in all endings - while those that aren't on Earth you have a chance to say goodbye to through the com machine just before the final push. Admiral Anderson dies an honorable death knowing that he has done what he could to save the universe, and you do too for the same reasons. Commander Shepard dies at peace knowing that he's done everything he could have to save everyone. And so I did too. No elaboration is ever needed on the fate of anyone because their fate is clear from the outset. Thay they will all be at peace for at least some period of time. And, if you saw the post-credits sequence, long enough for stories to be told about you "many years" after this has happened. You've made your mark on the galaxy, and changed it for the better.

The other problem is with plot holes. Soverign said "your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire." and some fans are arguing this completely goes against the Catalyst's reasoning for destroying organics with synthetics so synthetics don't destroy organics. The origins of the entity controling the Catalyst aren't explained either, and it comes out of the blue with no previous mention in the earlier games. As an athiest myself, I believe it doesn't need to be explained. Because no matter what explanation is given for what this entity is exactly, the audience will not be satisfied. Need an example? Lost.

SPOILER ALERT: The reason for everything that happened on the island is an ancient plug holding in all evil. And all Jack does is put the plug back in, everything magically becomes better again and then he dies.

Now the execution of that final reveal was pretty good. But my point is that simply calling the Catalyst an all-powerful entity is much better than needing to explain what it is exactly, because no matter what is said there will be a fan out there that is disappointed with it, or see it as rediculous. For thousands of years some human beings throughout the world have believed that there is an almighty being that is the creator of all life - so why would this be so hard to believe in a piece of entertainment created by humans? The fact that it comes out of the blue can be explained by what the Catalyst says themselves. They say that Commander Shepard is the first person to ever have been able to break the cycle, and so naturally he would be the only person aware of their existence outside of the Reapers. Of course the Reapers could have cryptically mentioned some kind of Catalyst in the earlier two entires, but in life nothing goes entirely to plan. It's probably the case that BioWare planned many of the key elements of the story for the trilogy from the begining. But I'm sure they never knew if they would ever get to definitely finish the trilogy from the launch of the first game. And so they would have over-looked including these small links between each game, focusing on the larger links instead. It's entirely possible that they may have over-looked this.

The final issue with it is what happens in the ending itself. People argue that all of the endings are practically the same and that no matter what you do the series ends in the destruction of the galaxy and the end of everything you have been fighting for. The first problem is simply not true - the Crucible acts as a signal sender to all the Mass Relays, and it is only the means to an end. The change in the contents of that signal is what matters, and the changing in the color of the beam reflects this. On the surface the endings may look very similar, but in terms of mythology they offer radically different repercussions to the same problem. The Mass Relays acting as bombs spread across the galaxy was the only possible way the mythology could offer universe-changing decisions in a believable fashion, but with the same focus on choice as the rest of the series. Yes, getting a simple A/B/C choice is a bit arbitrary compared to the choice system for the rest of the game, yet if this wasn't the case there would be no true choice for the player. Their ending would have already been decided based on past decisions rather than decisions chosen in Mass Effect 3, and there would probably be an uproar about their being no choice in what ending you get instead. In the end it is clear that the only way for the Reapers to be deafeated is if all alien races were to work together, and so in this way the choices you made could only lead down one path of conclusions.

But the most important part is how some are saying the endings make the entire trilogy pointless. By saying that, you are ignoring the entire arc of the trilogy. Commander Shepard's journey - your journey - is complete. You have gone from becoming an Alliance soldier to the Commander who sacrificed himself for the greater good. You have made thousands of years of conflict between differing races stop, either through peace or force. Nearly all of the people you cared about and who care about you are safe (or died to make the people they cared about safe), and they remember you for the things you did and the sacrafice you made. At the start of the series there was hope for this current cycle to continue, but instead a brighter cycle with an infinitely brighter future has begun. Not only that, but the cycle that your people have gone through will never be experienced again. And they have never forgotten for you for that. They still speak your name and they still speak about how you saved the galaxy from itself. And you will forever be known as "The Shepard" for that.

Now can someone explain to me what they found wrong with the endings?

Modifié par GunGrave TZA, 26 mars 2012 - 08:26 .


#2
Greed1914

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Those will summarize pretty well.

Modifié par Greed1914, 26 mars 2012 - 08:25 .


#3
Niemack Saarinen

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watch that video Greed linked. Its about, oh.. those massive plotholes.

#4
Icophesis

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You're right, its totally fine to have nearly identical endings that all destroy the mass relays, the very fabric that tied the ME universe together, contradict established lore, a normandy sequence that leaves way too many unanswered questions like "how will they survive?" "is my love interest gonna give in and do it with one of my teammates" "can Garrus and Tali eat the food/are they the only ones that can eat the food" "why was joker looking back" "why was joker even running at all" "I saw my love interest get killed by Harbinger, why is he/she on the Normandy" etc etc.

....and then all the promises that choices would matter when they didn't. Nothing you did in those games mattered, all that mattered was how much of the 3rd you explored, regardless of choice, to expand how many of the a/b/c endings you got to see.

And the fact that "we are synthetics that kill organics so they don't make synthetics that kill organics" is pretty stupid, and nonsensical since plenty of players brokered a peace between the Quarians and Geth, throwing that assumption out the window.

just... dude... you either haven't played all the games, or cared much about them/gave them much thought, because seriously, these endings are being discussed as one of the worst in gaming history.

Modifié par Icophesis, 26 mars 2012 - 08:34 .


#5
RedNanaki

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Happy that you liked the ending, but prepare yourself to be attempted converted by the BSN population. :devil:

GunGrave TZA wrote...

Nearly all of the people you cared about and who care about you are safe (or died to make the people they cared about safe)


This is one of the major problems for people, though. Basically everyone you cared about is stranded on Earth; A broken Earth. How could they possibly survive? The Turians and Quarians will never be able to make it home before they run out of dextro food for instance. Wrex wont make it back to Tuchanka to lead his people, the Normandy crew seemingly ran away from the battle and crash landed on some tropical planet.

It's just a bit too bleak of a future for most... even if Shepard at the end of the day did end the Reaper threat.

Edit: Also, plot holes. There are a *lot* of plot holes and inconsistencies if you look closely. If you don't want to be converted I recommend you avoid reading about them. ;)

Modifié par RedNanaki, 26 mars 2012 - 08:38 .


#6
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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You actually believed the little twerp Reaper God? Hahahaa, ok :)

#7
jfruelas521

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Please read one of the hundreds of other threads explaining exactly what most of us found wrong with the endings. Here is a pretty good one:

http://social.biowar...5/index/9749689

If you like the ending, that is fine. Good for you. However, the majority of fans did not like the ending. That is why you are hearing all this.

Modifié par jfruelas521, 26 mars 2012 - 08:38 .


#8
The Angry One

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GunGrave TZA wrote...

For one, the issue with closure. You see that your squadmates, the people you have spent years getting to know in the previous entries, are perfectly fine.


This is where I stopped reading. If you cannot even get how ridiculous their situation is, how they are not "perfectly fine" and how this leads to no closure whatsoever I'm not bothering with the rest. Good day.

#9
lyssalu

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The Angry One wrote...

GunGrave TZA wrote...

For one, the issue with closure. You see that your squadmates, the people you have spent years getting to know in the previous entries, are perfectly fine.


This is where I stopped reading. If you cannot even get how ridiculous their situation is, how they are not "perfectly fine" and how this leads to no closure whatsoever I'm not bothering with the rest. Good day.


basically

#10
J717

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I couldn't see the ending cause there were too many large plot holes in the way.

If the ending is art...then so is my dump when it hits the porcelain of my toilet.

#11
mupp3tz

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A lot of people initially think "Ah, it's not so bad." But, I'm sure you'll soon be bombarded with people pointing out various things. Slowly... you will become like us. See you on the flip side!

#12
HTTP 404

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Is op really asking what was wrong? are we really going to convince each other otherwise about how we see the ending. I recommend the OP to read some topics here and youtube if you got any questions need asking.

#13
Eugenious

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SwobyJ wrote...

You actually believed the little twerp Reaper God? Hahahaa, ok :)



#14
Risselda

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Saren chose blue.

TIM chose green.

How did they end up again?

#15
warrior256

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You claim that you have changed the galaxy for the better. I'm sorry but i'd argue that all you've done is make things worse then what they already are. The vast majority of Turians and Quarians who participated in the Battle for Earth are going to starve (which may mean the extinction of the Quarian race considering the bulk of Quarians probably fought in the battle. At the same time, there is going to be a massive war for the remaining resources on Earth which will kill off most of the remaining survivors in the system.

Then there is the issue of the Galatic dark age. It is established that 10 000 years from the endings, civilization is still reduced to pre-spaceflight levels. Multiple civilizations have been entirely destroyed or at the very least have collapsed into Anarchy. Everything that made the Mass Effect series what it is has been destroyed. So can you tell me just how things are better off now?

#16
RedNanaki

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M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

A lot of people initially think "Ah, it's not so bad." But, I'm sure you'll soon be bombarded with people pointing out various things. Slowly... you will become like us. See you on the flip side!


Yeah, for some it takes a while to sink in (or others to point out what's wrong) before they start seeing it.

Seriously, if you liked the ending and want it to stay that way... Leave now!

#17
GunGrave TZA

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Icophesis wrote...

You're right, its totally fine to have nearly identical endings that all destroy the mass relays, the very fabric that tied the ME universe together, contradict established lore, a normandy sequence that leaves way too many unanswered questions like "how will they survive?" "is my love interest gonna give in and do it with one of my teammates" "can Garrus and Tali eat the food/are they the only ones that can eat the food" "why was joker looking back" "why was joker even running at all" "I saw my love interest get killed by Harbinger, why is he/she on the Normandy" etc etc.

....and then all the promises that choices would matter when they didn't. Nothing you did in those games mattered, all that mattered was how much of the 3rd you explored, regardless of choice, to expand how many of the a/b/c endings you got to see.

And the fact that "we are synthetics that kill organics so they don't make synthetics that kill organics" is pretty stupid, and nonsensical since plenty of players brokered a peace between the Quarians and Geth, throwing that assumption out the window.

just... dude... you either haven't played all the games, or cared much about them/gave them much thought, because seriously, these endings are being discussed as one of the worst in gaming history.



Where is the lore contridicted? And these questions of your are answered. They are indirectly answered, and as I said, no further explanation is needed because it is obvious what will happen.

Again, implied from the beginning of Mass Effect 3 that all races will have to band together to defeat the Reapers and you'll end up along the same path for a similar conclusion. 

The Quarian and Geth peace is temporary and uneasy, and that depends on if you chose that to happen anyway. I chose to destroy the Quarians since that was seen as the good choice. The Catalyst's point is that in the long run, in nature, it is natural for the synthetic creations to destroy the organic creators.

I have all three games and got the original about a month after it came out, ME2 on launch day and ME3 a few days ago. Check my Gamertag if you want proof. Or my Achievements.

#18
masseffectfan94

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All i can say is good luck with the following comments your gonna need it lol

#19
HTTP 404

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warrior256 wrote...

You claim that you have changed the galaxy for the better. I'm sorry but i'd argue that all you've done is make things worse then what they already are. The vast majority of Turians and Quarians who participated in the Battle for Earth are going to starve (which may mean the extinction of the Quarian race considering the bulk of Quarians probably fought in the battle. At the same time, there is going to be a massive war for the remaining resources on Earth which will kill off most of the remaining survivors in the system.

Then there is the issue of the Galatic dark age. It is established that 10 000 years from the endings, civilization is still reduced to pre-spaceflight levels. Multiple civilizations have been entirely destroyed or at the very least have collapsed into Anarchy. Everything that made the Mass Effect series what it is has been destroyed. So can you tell me just how things are better off now?


I don't mind there being a dark age after the game and some anarachy to happen.  The goal of Shepard was to save everyone's existence not just create peace.  the mass relays being destr yed imo is a good idea.  but I thought the ending left too much questions.  it would have been nice if there was a follow up in words or by a narator about what happened after the end

also a good ending doesnt mean its a happy one.

#20
Greed1914

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The Angry One wrote...

GunGrave TZA wrote...

For one, the issue with closure. You see that your squadmates, the people you have spent years getting to know in the previous entries, are perfectly fine.


This is where I stopped reading. If you cannot even get how ridiculous their situation is, how they are not "perfectly fine" and how this leads to no closure whatsoever I'm not bothering with the rest. Good day.


Gotta love the closure in that scene.  They're alive, right?  It doesn't matter that they're stranded on some random planet and will probably never get back.  I sure love the closure in knowing Tali will never see Rannoch again. 

#21
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Again, you trust the Catalyst? Even when he's clearly attempting to mislead Shepard?

#22
Egonne

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My summary of the problems with the ending that DON'T involve the Star Kid. This pushes 'suspension of disbelief' well past tolerable levels and into the 'chaotic nonsense' range.

1. Shepard gets hit with the beam. How long did he lay there? How was it that NO ONE, friend or enemy, stubbled on him while he was unconscience? This requires fairly little imagination but the total has begun.

2. Anderson making it to the beam? This is starting to get big. The absolute emphasis that NO ONE made it to the beam and the implication that most if not ALL were killed is too strong. Still tolerable though.

3. Anderson getting beamed to a different part of the Citadel? Really? How did that happen? And how did he get to the Illusive Man's platform when there seems to be only one path to it. This STILL isn't too much of a strain. But it is starting to get big.

4. The Illusive Man's presence on the Citadel. This is a minor one. But still isn't explained (although normally I'd be fine with that) and still adds to the total.

5. How did Hackett know Shepard was on the Citadel? Sure, someone had to open the Citadel's arms but how did Hackett KNOW it was Shepard? Also, what is with their conversation? Didn't Hackett think that Shepard is dead? And he never mentions surprise that Shepard is alive? Did the crew of the Normandy just not want to talk to Shepard or did Hackett not tell them Shepard was alive? This is starting to get out of hand.

6. The Mass Relay's NOT destroying entire systems when they explode. This, again, is a minor one because it can be explain due to the odd way the Mass Relay were being used (to synthesis/control the reapers). But the total is starting to get pretty large.

7. Normandy and Joker in the Mass Relay stream? This is a BIG one. No reason is given on WHY he should be. Didn't Hackett tell him Shepard was alive and on the Citadel? This is out of character in almost EVERY way. This SHOULD have been explained. If Normandy WASN'T in the mass relay system then what is the explosion that he is running from? Wouldn't that same explosion have decimated earth and most of the fleet if it were a local explosion centered on the Citadel? Now we are starting to stretch 'imagination' pretty far.

8. Normandy surving a forced ejection from the Mass Relay system? Wasn't that established to be destructive? This COULD be explained away as well. But the total is starting to get overwhelming.

9. Normandy crashing on a planet? And an inhabitable one at that? In a normal ending this could simply be ignored because it is such a common plot problem (the new Star Trek movie had the same problem). But we are still adding to a VERY big total.

10. My squad mates inexplicably exiting the Normandy after it crashed? Now HERE we have the BIG one. This simply DOESN'T make any sense at all. How did they get there? Why did they leave the battle? This ending, which was already pushing believability, just totally unraveled.

11. My squad mates not only are ON the Normandy but seem UNSCATHED a mere minutes (possibly hours if you stretch it a LOT) after being part of the failed Citadel beam charge? The story just built up how devastating that charge was. Shepard was incredibly hurt. How did they get out alive AND without a scratch? This is HUGE! It is impossible to overexaggerate the problem here.

12. My squad mates, who magically appeared on the Normandy, and who are in remarkable health, also seem quite HAPPY? WHAT!?!?!?! Didn't they just witness what they thought was Shepard's death? Didn't they just witness the destruction of the mass relays? Didn't they lose any chance at all of seeing ANY of their loved ones again (at least for quite some time)? And they seem HAPPY?

The ending is like asking an artist for a painting, and getting a 'color by numbers' sheet that ISN'T colored in.  Sure, I can color it in, but that is what the artist is supposed to do.

Modifié par Egonne, 26 mars 2012 - 08:56 .


#23
flumpet38

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Icophesis wrote...
just... dude... you either haven't played all the games, or cared much about them/gave them much thought, because seriously, these endings are being discussed as one of the worst in gaming history.


You know, I wasn't going to post in this thread...but y'all really need to stop with this whole "if you like the ending then clearly you don't care or aren't a real fan" nonsense. 

I've played all 3 games at least twice. I've read the books and comics. I love the Mass Effect trilogy. And, I enjoyed the ending. Just because I disagree with you does not mean that my love of the Mass Effect franchise is somehow less than yours. Same goes for the OP. 

Argue all you want about the points folks try to make, but don't attack them or their passion for the game.

Personally, I think unanswered questions are ok. The ending doesn't need to explain EVERYTHING. What happens to your crew? Who knows? Maybe we'll find out later, and that's ok. Squadmates on the Normandy? Well, I'd imagine Joker probably picked them up. I mean...Hackett might not get the memo right away that Shepard was up, moving, or getting towards the Beam, and a decent backup plan is getting folks on the Normandy and trying to fly to the Citadel while Sword punches a hole in the Reaper lines. Joker running? Giant, oddly-colored energy wave...I'd run too. 

#24
anlk92

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GunGrave TZA wrote...

Where is the lore contridicted? And these questions of your are answered. They are indirectly answered, and as I said, no further explanation is needed because it is obvious what will happen.

Again, implied from the beginning of Mass Effect 3 that all races will have to band together to defeat the Reapers and you'll end up along the same path for a similar conclusion. 

The Quarian and Geth peace is temporary and uneasy, and that depends on if you chose that to happen anyway. I chose to destroy the Quarians since that was seen as the good choice. The Catalyst's point is that in the long run, in nature, it is natural for the synthetic creations to destroy the organic creators.

I have all three games and got the original about a month after it came out, ME2 on launch day and ME3 a few days ago. Check my Gamertag if you want proof. Or my Achievements.


Can you possibly tell us what you think about Normandy fleeing the battle with your friends in it? Or how and why did they get to Normandy from Earth?

Oh and catalyst is a genocidal maniac, kind of like space Hitler. So I wouldn't take his word about this whole synthetics issue, since there's absolutely no proof given to support his argument in all three games but a lot that contradicts it.

#25
CaptainZaysh

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RedNanaki wrote...

The Turians and Quarians will never be able to make it home before they run out of dextro food for instance


Yes.  It is inconceivable that the Migrant Fleet could survive without a homeworld.  :P