155 réponses à ce sujet

[EHondaMashButton]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I guess the reason theyd idn't is the same reason why they decided to attack the galaxy wholesale instead of system by system.

Writers Fiat.

But honestly I dont know why they didn't it would of made sense... at least more sense than just heading STRAIGHT for earth or attacking all species at once.

But *shrug* what can ya do. This also explains how the normandy landed within sight of 3+ reapers and didn't get blasted out of the sky, or why they didn't even TRY to laser beam shepard as he escaped, etc.

I said this before. Attacking say Thesia first and wiping out the Asari forces would just give nothing but a huge rallying cry out to EVERY OTHER RACE IN THE GALAXY. And there a crapload of species each with at least a decent fleet (Volus, Hannar, Drell, Elcor) to massive fleets (Turian, Alliance, Geth, Quarian). Whilst attacking each individual galaxy leaves the fleets in dismay unable to untie as each race is looking out for numero uno... except ofr humanity hwo are more ficoussed on uniting EVERY race.

This is simple strategy. Divide and Conquer.

Divide and conquer is the exact opposite of what you wrote.

[SeventyOne]

Either a plothole or an absurd strategy by the Reapers.

[Delta_V2]

I kind of saw this being an issue before the game even came out. For the Reapers, attacking the Citadel and locking down the relays ASAP was such an obvious move, but of course, would have prevented the rest of the game from happening.

There actually would have been an easy way around this. Just have Hackett or Anderson (or even Traynor) mention that, while the Alliance was rebuilding the Normandy, they started reverse engineering the Normandy's Reaper IFF and installing it on other ships. Then when the Reapers capture the Citadel, they actually do shut down the Relays, except for it doesn't actually stop us from using them. (Note: I always figured they never actually shut them down completely, but simply put them in a mode so only Reapers could use them)

[Phategod1]

I guess for the most part they didn't have to, There was no force no fleet to there knowledge that could stop them unified or divided.

[SeventyOne]

@ Delta_V2
I approve this solution.

[SalsaDMA]

I don't get why they didn't let the reapers shut down the relays, and then let you get access to them through EDI (because of her experiences in ME2 with the Omega4 relay). It would have been better writing, in my opinion.

[Delta_V2]

SalsaDMA wrote...

I don't get why they didn't let the reapers shut down the relays, and then let you get access to them through EDI (because of her experiences in ME2 with the Omega4 relay). It would have been better writing, in my opinion.

That was basically my idea too, except base it off the Alliance reverse engineering the Reaper IFF and sticking it on every ship in the fleet.  Then when the Reapers grab the Citadel and move it to Earth, they lock down the relays, thinking they've got everything under control, only to get a giant WTF? moment when your fleet comes through anyways.

[ThomaswBloom]

Delta_V2 wrote...

I kind of saw this being an issue before the game even came out. For the Reapers, attacking the Citadel and locking down the relays ASAP was such an obvious move, but of course, would have prevented the rest of the game from happening.

There actually would have been an easy way around this. Just have Hackett or Anderson (or even Traynor) mention that, while the Alliance was rebuilding the Normandy, they started reverse engineering the Normandy's Reaper IFF and installing it on other ships. Then when the Reapers capture the Citadel, they actually do shut down the Relays, except for it doesn't actually stop us from using them. (Note: I always figured they never actually shut them down completely, but simply put them in a mode so only Reapers could use them)

This is what I figured as well.  Relays in reaper only mode, fleetwide refits to the Reaper IFF to counter.  

Honestly the Citadel races could have very well done such a thing off camera in between ME2 and ME3.  It wasn't huge deal in ME2 to add it to the Normandy.

[Darth_Ultima]

This should be in the spoiler section because at the end of the game it shows how they ignored or forgot about cannon. My theory when I first started playing the game was that they needed the Citadel to control all the Relays at once. I also thought that since the Normandy had a Reaper IFF that it would still be able to use the Relays even if they were shut down. But they just completely ignored all this in favor of the incomplete conclusion that was forced down our throats.

[EHondaMashButton]

Delta_V2 wrote...

I kind of saw this being an issue before the game even came out. For the Reapers, attacking the Citadel and locking down the relays ASAP was such an obvious move, but of course, would have prevented the rest of the game from happening.

There actually would have been an easy way around this. Just have Hackett or Anderson (or even Traynor) mention that, while the Alliance was rebuilding the Normandy, they started reverse engineering the Normandy's Reaper IFF and installing it on other ships. Then when the Reapers capture the Citadel, they actually do shut down the Relays, except for it doesn't actually stop us from using them. (Note: I always figured they never actually shut them down completely, but simply put them in a mode so only Reapers could use them)

The reaper IFF was just a navigation algorithm that tightened the "drift" going through the relay.  Any ship could've gone through the Omega 4 relay, it just would've hit debris on the other side.  I suppose they could retcon that in too?

[Delta_V2]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

The reaper IFF was just a navigation algorithm that tightened the "drift" going through the relay.  Any ship could've gone through the Omega 4 relay, it just would've hit debris on the other side.  I suppose they could retcon that in too?

I could be mistaken, but I don't think it was ever stated that was all it did.  That was the only reason the Normandy needed it in ME2, but it would be within reason for it to have other functions.

EDIT: and even if the Alliance didn't know of any other functions at the time, being able to make more accurate relay jumps would be reason enough to put it on all the ships you can.  It would have been a simple Chekov's Gun that could have circumvented this plot hole altogether.

Modifié par Delta_V2, 26 mars 2012 - 11:08 .

[EHondaMashButton]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

Delta_V2 wrote...

I kind of saw this being an issue before the game even came out. For the Reapers, attacking the Citadel and locking down the relays ASAP was such an obvious move, but of course, would have prevented the rest of the game from happening.

There actually would have been an easy way around this. Just have Hackett or Anderson (or even Traynor) mention that, while the Alliance was rebuilding the Normandy, they started reverse engineering the Normandy's Reaper IFF and installing it on other ships. Then when the Reapers capture the Citadel, they actually do shut down the Relays, except for it doesn't actually stop us from using them. (Note: I always figured they never actually shut them down completely, but simply put them in a mode so only Reapers could use them)

The reaper IFF wasn't a key to turn on the omega 4 relay, it was just a navigation algorithm that tightened the "drift" going through.  Any ship could've gone through the Omega 4 relay, it just would've hit debris on the other side.  I suppose they could retcon in that it was a key too?

edited

Modifié par EHondaMashButton, 26 mars 2012 - 11:07 .

[Darth_Ultima]

ThomaswBloom wrote...

Delta_V2 wrote...

I kind of saw this being an issue before the game even came out. For the Reapers, attacking the Citadel and locking down the relays ASAP was such an obvious move, but of course, would have prevented the rest of the game from happening.

There actually would have been an easy way around this. Just have Hackett or Anderson (or even Traynor) mention that, while the Alliance was rebuilding the Normandy, they started reverse engineering the Normandy's Reaper IFF and installing it on other ships. Then when the Reapers capture the Citadel, they actually do shut down the Relays, except for it doesn't actually stop us from using them. (Note: I always figured they never actually shut them down completely, but simply put them in a mode so only Reapers could use them)

This is what I figured as well.  Relays in reaper only mode, fleetwide refits to the Reaper IFF to counter.  

Honestly the Citadel races could have very well done such a thing off camera in between ME2 and ME3.  It wasn't huge deal in ME2 to add it to the Normandy.

I thought about this as well.  If the Reapers attacked the citadel directly at first the citadel could have just closed up and unless the Reapers had a way of opening the Citadel remotely they would have been denied access to it.   Sadly, it seems like they just completely ignored this detail in favor of the ending they had in mind.

[EHondaMashButton]

Delta_V2 wrote...

EHondaMashButton wrote...

The reaper IFF was just a navigation algorithm that tightened the "drift" going through the relay.  Any ship could've gone through the Omega 4 relay, it just would've hit debris on the other side.  I suppose they could retcon that in too?

I could be mistaken, but I don't think it was ever stated that was all it did.  That was the only reason the Normandy needed it in ME2, but it would be within reason for it to have other functions.

EDIT: and even if the Alliance didn't know of any other functions at the time, being able to make more accurate relay jumps would be reason enough to put it on all the ships you can.  It would have been a simple Chekov's Gun that could have circumvented this plot hole altogether.

Which then raises the issue of how nobody on the Normandy has been indoctrinated from having reaper tech onboard the ship, how the alliance scientists would be able to reverse engineer it without becoming indoctrinated, and whether they'd actually share such technology with any of the other council races, the Quarians, or the Geth,

[Diavire]

Here's my question, not having played ME3 yet.

Why would the Reapers need the Relays?

As someone here stated, they just flew in from dark space.

At the end of ME2 you can see them flying towards the Milky Way, as in, being outside of it, as in, being really really really far away.

Yet they arrive within a very short time. At least within a human lifetime, and more likely within a few years, since all the main players have barely changed in age. (keep in mind I haven't played ME3 yet, so I don't know if a timeline is given)

According to that, they're so fast they really wouldn't need a Relay to travel the galaxy.

[chengthao]

Diavire wrote...

Here's my question, not having played ME3 yet.

Why would the Reapers need the Relays?

As someone here stated, they just flew in from dark space.

At the end of ME2 you can see them flying towards the Milky Way, as in, being outside of it, as in, being really really really far away.

Yet they arrive within a very short time. At least within a human lifetime, and more likely within a few years, since all the main players have barely changed in age. (keep in mind I haven't played ME3 yet, so I don't know if a timeline is given)

According to that, they're so fast they really wouldn't need a Relay to travel the galaxy.

they arrived in Batarian space and used the Batarian's Mass Relays, Batarians are on the edge of the galaxy where the Reapers laid dormant

Modifié par chengthao, 26 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[shepskisaac]

Alliance (and Cerberus and Geth) has Reaper IFF

[Diavire]

chengthao wrote...

Diavire wrote...

Here's my question, not having played ME3 yet.

Why would the Reapers need the Relays?

As someone here stated, they just flew in from dark space.

At the end of ME2 you can see them flying towards the Milky Way, as in, being outside of it, as in, being really really really far away.

Yet they arrive within a very short time. At least within a human lifetime, and more likely within a few years, since all the main players have barely changed in age. (keep in mind I haven't played ME3 yet, so I don't know if a timeline is given)

According to that, they're so fast they really wouldn't need a Relay to travel the galaxy.

they arrived in Batarian space and used the Batarian's Mass Relays

I mean, why would they. I just looked up the ending of ME2 on youtube, and they're so far from the Milky Way that they'd have to have propulsion faster than a Mass Relay to get there that quickly.

[BeefoTheBold]

chengthao wrote...

Diavire wrote...

Here's my question, not having played ME3 yet.

Why would the Reapers need the Relays?

As someone here stated, they just flew in from dark space.

At the end of ME2 you can see them flying towards the Milky Way, as in, being outside of it, as in, being really really really far away.

Yet they arrive within a very short time. At least within a human lifetime, and more likely within a few years, since all the main players have barely changed in age. (keep in mind I haven't played ME3 yet, so I don't know if a timeline is given)

According to that, they're so fast they really wouldn't need a Relay to travel the galaxy.

they arrived in Batarian space and used the Batarian's Mass Relays, Batarians are on the edge of the galaxy where the Reapers laid dormant

Also, time.

Yes, the Reapers have infinite time and could continue their campaign against organics without the relays if necessary by conventional flight, but the more time you give the organic races to prepare the better their chances of successfully resisting or finding a way to escape.

The biggest reason Earth is in the mess it's in at the start of the game from what I can gather is that the Reapers basically just skipped past most of the defenses to launch a Pearl Harboresque surprise attack.

[HolmesLovesGuinness]

Yep - these are some of the obvious plotholes in the game - why not go after the Citadel first? Why spread themselves thin fighting wars on numerous fronts instead of methodically wiping out system after system (like they did against the Protheans)? Why not take control of the mass relays? I do like the idea of using the Reaper IFF, but again, this was never used to gain access to the Omega 4 relay, only to ensure that the vessel was transported to the small 'safe zone' on the other side. It was never established that this would override Reaper control of a relay.

Then again, since we find out that Glowing Wonderboy is actually calling the shots everything that was previously established went out the window in the last 5 minutes. But what's established continuity and character development compared to artistic integrity, right?

[CARL_DF90]

Hmm...good point. Didn't even think about it when I first played ME3. Plot hole anyone?

[VerdantSF]

Star Child didn't want them to.

[Sgt Stryker]

Did they still have the ability to shut down or lock out the relays after ME1?

[Diavire]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

chengthao wrote...

Diavire wrote...

Here's my question, not having played ME3 yet.

Why would the Reapers need the Relays?

As someone here stated, they just flew in from dark space.

At the end of ME2 you can see them flying towards the Milky Way, as in, being outside of it, as in, being really really really far away.

Yet they arrive within a very short time. At least within a human lifetime, and more likely within a few years, since all the main players have barely changed in age. (keep in mind I haven't played ME3 yet, so I don't know if a timeline is given)

According to that, they're so fast they really wouldn't need a Relay to travel the galaxy.

they arrived in Batarian space and used the Batarian's Mass Relays, Batarians are on the edge of the galaxy where the Reapers laid dormant

Also, time.

Yes, the Reapers have infinite time and could continue their campaign against organics without the relays if necessary by conventional flight, but the more time you give the organic races to prepare the better their chances of successfully resisting or finding a way to escape.

The biggest reason Earth is in the mess it's in at the start of the game from what I can gather is that the Reapers basically just skipped past most of the defenses to launch a Pearl Harboresque surprise attack.

My point is they don't need time, since they would have to be incredibly fast to get from there to here in such a short time, therefor not needing Mass Relays.

[Delta_V2]

EHondaMashButton wrote...


Which then raises the issue of how nobody on the Normandy has been indoctrinated from having reaper tech onboard the ship, how the alliance scientists would be able to reverse engineer it without becoming indoctrinated, and whether they'd actually share such technology with any of the other council races, the Quarians, or the Geth,

Well, the Turians somehow managed to reverse engineer Sovereign's weapons w/out becoming indoctrinated, so it's not like there is no precedent for it.  As for sharing it with the others, if it was necessary for the final assault on Earth, of course they'd give it to the fleets willing to help them. 

Even if it was a bit of a plothole, would it not be preferable to the giant gap in the Reapers' logic that we ended up with?