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[EHondaMashButton]

Delta_V2 wrote...

EHondaMashButton wrote...


Which then raises the issue of how nobody on the Normandy has been indoctrinated from having reaper tech onboard the ship, how the alliance scientists would be able to reverse engineer it without becoming indoctrinated, and whether they'd actually share such technology with any of the other council races, the Quarians, or the Geth,

Well, the Turians somehow managed to reverse engineer Sovereign's weapons w/out becoming indoctrinated, so it's not like there is no precedent for it.  As for sharing it with the others, if it was necessary for the final assault on Earth, of course they'd give it to the fleets willing to help them. 

Even if it was a bit of a plothole, would it not be preferable to the giant gap in the Reapers' logic that we ended up with?

Definitely prefer your version to theirs.  EA really needs to give these guys more time to make these games.

[HolmesLovesGuinness]

Another question I had was - how the heck did they get the Citadel to Earth? I don't recall it ever being established that it had any sort of propulsion system? Tow it to the relay? That was sort of my first WTF moment during the game (not to mention leaving me wondering exactly what happened to everyone on the station). The first of many from that point forward....

[OdanUrr]

HolmesLovesGuinness wrote...

Another question I had was - how the heck did they get the Citadel to Earth? I don't recall it ever being established that it had any sort of propulsion system? Tow it to the relay? That was sort of my first WTF moment during the game (not to mention leaving me wondering exactly what happened to everyone on the station). The first of many from that point forward....

Two words: Stargate Atlantis.

[Delta_V2]

HolmesLovesGuinness wrote...

Another question I had was - how the heck did they get the Citadel to Earth? I don't recall it ever being established that it had any sort of propulsion system? Tow it to the relay? That was sort of my first WTF moment during the game (not to mention leaving me wondering exactly what happened to everyone on the station). The first of many from that point forward....

Yeah, that was definitely a bit of a WTF moment.  But I'm willing to roll with a certain amount of these things if they need them to make a good story.  Unfortunately, I didn't realize at the time that the number of WTF moments would increase by the minute from this point on.

[streamlock]

It is just one of those things. In and of itself I would just cast it aside as an oversight. They happen-especially in stories/lore this complex. But the shear amount of them just adds up to a huge "WTF were they thinking?" when all is said and done.

[Delta_V2]

streamlock wrote...

It is just one of those things. In and of itself I would just cast it aside as an oversight. They happen-especially in stories/lore this complex. But the shear amount of them just adds up to a huge "WTF were they thinking?" when all is said and done.

Exactly.  One or two is acceptable.  The number of them in the ending is just sad.

[Bocks]

Why didn't the Reapers attack the Citadel?
Why is Earth so important?
Why didn't the Reapers shut down the Relay Network when the Citadel was in orbit over Earth?
Why didn't the Reapers just bombard everything from orbit or use seeker swarms?

Why?

Why?

WHY?

I was hoping Mass Effect 3 would be about EDI integrating her knowledge of Reaper tech gained from the Collector Base to pass through disabled Relays after the Reapers SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN.

[thunderhawk862002]

Or why didn't the Reapers guard the relays? It used to take a whole armada to take down one. Anything that came out of the Mass Relay would be Reaper beamed into oblivion. All it would take would be maybe 2-5 Reapers guarding each relay to effectively stop anyone but themselves from traveling.

[suprhomre]

They need the Citadel to control the relays which the Prothean stopped them by deactivate the keepers signal. Leaving them out from the Citadel space.

[SeventyOne]

Seems that i m not the only one who finds the Citadel's appearance in Sol System... problematic.

[Nordicus]

Aah yes, the "plotholes"

[AkiKishi]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

Which then raises the issue of how nobody on the Normandy has been indoctrinated from having reaper tech onboard the ship, how the alliance scientists would be able to reverse engineer it without becoming indoctrinated, and whether they'd actually share such technology with any of the other council races, the Quarians, or the Geth,

Same reason that you can kill 100's of Darkspawn in Dragan Age but you only get infected when it's dictated by the plot.

It all makes sense if you believe that the Reaper fleet is being controlled by a kid with no grasp of basic strategy.

[dado500]

Reapers didn't shut down the Mass Relays because they are beyond our comprehension just like in this video

[onchristieroad]

Yes, it is a bit of plot-hole. However, I always imagined the Citadel somehow used itself to travel to Earth (it is a giant mass relay itself). The worst thing about it was the tone of the citadel being taken I thought. "Oh, btw; the Citadel was taken while you were over there. Everyone you ever knew on board is probably dead. Everyone you helped on there on the past few years: dead. The Citadel Council you just saved...possibly dead, I haven't bothered checking. But whatever."

[demersel]

With crucible, attached to the citadel, and fired - they effectively did shut down all mass relays. So now, the slow and patient harvest can begin. 

Modifié par demersel, 27 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[SalsaDMA]

ThomaswBloom wrote...

Delta_V2 wrote...

I kind of saw this being an issue before the game even came out. For the Reapers, attacking the Citadel and locking down the relays ASAP was such an obvious move, but of course, would have prevented the rest of the game from happening.

There actually would have been an easy way around this. Just have Hackett or Anderson (or even Traynor) mention that, while the Alliance was rebuilding the Normandy, they started reverse engineering the Normandy's Reaper IFF and installing it on other ships. Then when the Reapers capture the Citadel, they actually do shut down the Relays, except for it doesn't actually stop us from using them. (Note: I always figured they never actually shut them down completely, but simply put them in a mode so only Reapers could use them)

This is what I figured as well.  Relays in reaper only mode, fleetwide refits to the Reaper IFF to counter.  

Honestly the Citadel races could have very well done such a thing off camera in between ME2 and ME3.  It wasn't huge deal in ME2 to add it to the Normandy.

Actually, it WAS an issue.

Or did you forget the part where the reaper IFF shut down the normandy and signalled the nearest reaper presence to itself?

They'd need EDI's experiences with it to incorporate it without alerting the reapers about it while becomming sitting ducks for them.

[SalsaDMA]

Delta_V2 wrote...

EHondaMashButton wrote...


Which then raises the issue of how nobody on the Normandy has been indoctrinated from having reaper tech onboard the ship, how the alliance scientists would be able to reverse engineer it without becoming indoctrinated, and whether they'd actually share such technology with any of the other council races, the Quarians, or the Geth,

Well, the Turians somehow managed to reverse engineer Sovereign's weapons w/out becoming indoctrinated, so it's not like there is no precedent for it.  As for sharing it with the others, if it was necessary for the final assault on Earth, of course they'd give it to the fleets willing to help them. 

Even if it was a bit of a plothole, would it not be preferable to the giant gap in the Reapers' logic that we ended up with?

I asume the indoctrination comes from solowy being made part of the 'network' that are what the reapers 'programs' consists of, just like Geth and when... That dude (can't remember his name right now, sorry) got jacked into a Geth network and went nutters at all the voices that kept talking all the time.

Being a single "voice" in a vast network of millions of voices drowns out the thought processes of the single individual and eventually jellifies the brain into so much mush.



Besides, any claim that just being around random reaper tech indoctrinates people is silly. The mass relays, The citadel and generally anything with Mass effect fields are stuff that the reapers made and guided the various races into using. I even seem to recall from ME2 that it was mentinoed that EDI was part reaper technology.

My asumption is that it needs a transmitter of some sort to a dedicated network of 'voices' for the effect to be able to take place.

One thing I never understood, though, is why some of the scenarios in the game produce husks WITHOUT dragon teeth. Husks aren't created by indoctrination, but by substitution of parts by nanomachines with transmitters. Most normally from dragon teeth, but on at least one ocasion having been done through an improvised 'tooth' (TIM making a husk in the book series to use it as a testing bed)

[Sebbe1337o]

I think the Protheans made sure they couldn't do that in this cycle. I think you need control over the Citadel for that. And the Protheans did something with the signals sent to the citadel in the beginning of this cycle before they died. Maybe something they did there?

Big deal, considering the much bigger problems the game has already...

[OdanUrr]

Sebbe1337o wrote...

I think the Protheans made sure they couldn't do that in this cycle. I think you need control over the Citadel for that. And the Protheans did something with the signals sent to the citadel in the beginning of this cycle before they died. Maybe something they did there?

Big deal, considering the much bigger problems the game has already...

Whatever the Protheans did in their cycle, the Reapers couldn't undo because they were in dark space already. In ME3 **SPOILERS** the Reapers take control of the Citadel. At this time, whatever the Protheans did (if anything), the Reapers could undo easily enough. Heck, where was the Catalyst all this time?

[Eclipse merc]

Because Shepard would've died on Earth, game over >.>

[Petrikles]

Maybe the Protheans sabotaged the signal this thoroughly that it not only prevents the reapers from teleporting in to the citadel, but also to send a signal from the citadel to stop all mass relays.

In any case(y), it should be explained.

Modifié par Kailord, 27 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[78stonewobble]

*casually surfs the forums* AAaaaaAAAAaaaaAAAaaaAAAA *falls into plothole*



My personal guess is that the reapers closed the relays in the last cycle (protheans) VIA the citadel and DUE to the centralised government. Rest of the Prothean empire couldn't adapt and counter this.

In this cycle there are numerous individual power (or lets call it command and control) centers around that the reapers try to divide for as long as possible to avoid a unification of opposing forces.

It might also have been a psychological ploy to give hope to the galaxy of some kind of victory to avoid anyone to building bunkers, blueprints and timecapsules for the next cycle again.

Just random thoughts tho...

[Mojenator12345]

Would love to hear BW's answer to this question. Maybe someone can bring it to PAX...

[hawkens982]

Renegade133 wrote...

Considering how many races they had to contend with they might have left it open so they could fight on multiple fronts such as a attacking earth palaven and thessia and many other worlds at the same time

Or they could've shut down the relays so no one can help each other....

[Sgt Stryker]

Kailord wrote...

Maybe the Protheans sabotaged the signal this thoroughly that it not only prevents the reapers from teleporting in to the citadel, but also to send a signal from the citadel to stop all mass relays.

In any case(y), it should be explained.

This seems like the most likely explanation, but I would argue that something this vital should have been stated somewhere in the narrative. Hell, even a simple Codex entry would have made me happy.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 27 mars 2012 - 03:14 .