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Why Didn't the Reapers Shut Down the Mass Relays?


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#101
elitecom

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iSousek wrote...

elitecom wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Vigil stated how Reapers cut them off, meaning they had nowhere to run. Against the overwhelming enemy, one by one systems fell.

Nowhere was it stated that Reapers have the ability to shut down releys, that's the product of BSN.

Don't you try now. I'll quote vigil for you "The Reapers seized control of the Citadel and through it, the mass relays. Communication and transportation across our empire were crippled. Each star system was isolated, cut off from the others. Easy prey for the Reaper fleets."

Vigil explicitly mentions how the Reapers seize control over the Citadel and through it the mass relays. It's not the product of BSN. If you don't believe me watch the conversation again.


Thank you for this, as you can see, Vigil never said anything about reapers shutting mass releys off. Read my original post, and then read what Vigil said

seize control over, and molest protheans =/= shut releys off

I just realised that I misread what you wrote, well done on my behalf....

The point is that the Reapers do seize control over the relay network and thereby cripple communication and transportation. There's no reason for the Reapers to shut the network down, though they probably could since they built it after all, but there's no good reason for doing so. Since by taking control over it, they can use, while everyone else cannot. Thus they isolate each star system, making them easy prey for the Reaper fleets. And they never did this in Mass Effect 3, again making this one of the biggest plot holes in Mass Effect 3.

#102
Destr1er

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They didn't shut it down because the new writing team did not use editing to find & plug the many existing plot holes.

#103
survivor_686

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In response to OP:

They didn't have access to the Citadel which I think is responsible for coordinating the relays.

But yeah they had it on Earth. Maybe the Protheans locked starbrat out of those systems?

#104
skcih-deraj

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Well if we all replay ME1 and really really focus on Vigil's dialogue that data file he mentioned would put the Citadel under shepard's control. Making it useless for the reapers. Which is you know kinda how they got their information on the whereabouts of systems habitated by other speicies in other cycles.

Oh and because of the data file they can't shut the relays down via the citadel for the above reason.

#105
MassPredator

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They want to try something new, doing the same strategy every 50.000 its kinda boring .

#106
CaptainCommander

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The Illusive Man was all like "I got this! We beat Shepard kind of. That'll stop him?" and the Reapers were like "You know you're right! Shepard has only killed our slaves and 3 Reapers he won't try again after getting depressed."

Honestly this not shutting down the relays and not using the Conduit to get the the Citadel was one of the biggest questions in my mind the first play through. I mean imagine if the Allied Forces arrived through the Citadel like the Reapers are meant to? That would be an epic throw-back to ME1 and would be an epic moment. But hey "Space Magic" won!

#107
CKentSMV

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Sorry to revive an old thread, but this doesn't seem to be resolved here.

"The Reapers seized control of the Citadel and through it, the mass relays"

They were only able to control the relays through the use of the Citadel. And that's CONTROL, not SHUT DOWN. They could have controlled them by means of simply guarding all of the relays, which the Citadel had access to each of. Either way, because the Protheans reprogrammed the keepers not to open the relay to and from dark space, and because Sovereign and Saren also failed to do so, the Reapers could not take the Citadel, and thus, the mass relays.

You might also be wondering why the Reapers didn't go straight to the Citadel after arriving from Dark Space. Because the Citadel is simply too fortified. They would normally use the "backdoor" into the Citadel, prevent them from closing the arms, and then flood it. Without that backdoor, they would see the attack coming a light year away and close the arms, making it impenetrable as far as we know. So the plan was to use The Illusive Man to gain control of the Citadel, much like they used Saren.

#108
Fredvdp

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When Saren took control of the Citadel he turned off several relays, which is why Hackett's fleet was stuck. The only reason Shepard has any say in when the Fifth Fleet would enter the battle, is because Hackett had no way of getting there until Shepard reactivated the relays. So yes, the Citadel can turn the relays off and on. Saren was then going to give manual control to Sovereign who couldn't control the Citadel from a distance through the keepers.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 21 janvier 2013 - 07:03 .


#109
MegaIllusiveMan

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What's with the Necros today?

#110
Guest_simfamUP_*

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How long does it take to shut down a Mass Relay? Besides... any of you guys know how to write around this? I mean, if they did shut down the Mass Relays, how would the game carry on?

Modifié par simfamSP, 21 janvier 2013 - 07:13 .


#111
GimmeDaGun

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It's not a plothole: if it happened that way, there would be no ME3 or it would take 3 minutes (reapers come, invade, get the Citadel, shut down the relay network, Shep stucks on Earth and dies, reapers wipe out the galaxy in a few decades or centuries... happy ending). I guess this "small" mystery is a better option from a stroy telling POW. :lol: It is evident that Bioware cornered itself with some reaper related stuff in ME1. They made them invincible and gave them tatctics that nullifies everybody else's. They had to change that in some way (kkhhhmmm..khmmm... Crucible...just to pick the most obvious example). 

Why the reapers do not shut the relays down? We don't know. It's not explained anywhere and even if it was explained in any way, we (BSN) would call it a retcon or cheap cop out, no matter what. If we wanted it being logical and "realistic" the reapers should destroy us in a whim.

Playing around with ideas pulled out from my ass (my ideas for a possible explanation):

For example maybe the reapers changed plans for this cycle since they were discovered way earlier than in the previous cycles and their original plans were sabotaged. So maybe it's an intentional decision from the reapers part. Maybe for strategic reasons. They start an assault against all the major military powers at the very same time (by reaper standars). They also previously chose humanity as their primary subject of harvest so they don't linger and start the harvest immediately while keeping the rest of the galaxy busy. So they may think that it's easier to devide and conquer this time. God knows why.

Or maybe the reapers use this cycle as another guinea pig and opportunity to study organics and their strategies, social behavious for their evolutionary experiment (since the organics managed to sabotage their original plans this time). They examine what happens when the galactic government and military command (the social strutcture and system of power) is intact. Or they are curious what makes this cycle tick: what are its weaknesses and strengths in order to avoid situations like this (ME1, ME2) in the future (they want to learn in order to adapt). So again intentional. Mind you that the reapers believe that the organics don't know of the Crucible any more (it shows that they are not that all knowing and omnipotent).

Or there could be this technical issue as well. The Citadell is just a part of the Catalyst or Intelligence (the reapers' collective conscious, knowledge and purpose), but its not controlled by it. Maybe part of it's original hardware dwells there too. But according to what we know it's only used as a conductor of dark energy (mass effect): it's a huge relay to dark space, and the heart of the relay system and its also used as a devise to manipulate space faring societies to make a huge step forward in technological and social evolution and of course it is the "womb" for the creation and birth of a new reaper, as we learn it in ME3 . But it is not controlled by the Catalyst, nor the reapers directly. It is controlled via the keepers and the keepers have become independent since the Ilos relay-project. So they can't manipulate it, only by direct interference (see Souvering's plan).

When TIM (after his indoctrination is complete) tells the reapers that the allied forces do have the Crucible, they immediately invade it and take it away. And then it is easier for them to start the creation of the new reaper at once and lure the allied forces to the heart of their armada where they can destroy them all in one battle along with the Crucible. Thanks to Shepard, Anderson and Hackett and the efforts of the allied forces it does not happen.

This is my theory. But it is an interpretation or head canon if you like. I dare to imagine stuff that's not fully or explained at all in stories. Every story has a level of mystery and unexplained details. So I don't get why it is such a shock or why people afraid to come up with their own explanations, interpretations. Nowadays it has to be all there... in detail, and it also should be logical (?) and very, very realistic (???). Maybe I'm a bit too old school... and less techy-detail-geeky-anal kind of person.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 21 janvier 2013 - 08:12 .


#112
GimmeDaGun

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Huhh... I fell for a necro, big time... <_<

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 21 janvier 2013 - 08:13 .


#113
CKentSMV

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Fredvdp: Actually Hackett's fleet was stuck outside the Citadel because the arms were closed as soon as Sovereign came in, locking everybody else out. Vigil's data file gave Shepard temporary control over the Citadel, and he opened up the arms to let in the Fifth Fleet. At no point were the Mass Relays shut off.

GimmeDaGun: Your theory about technical issues is essentially what I'm trying to say. The Protheans made it so that the Reapers couldn't sneak attack the Citadel like they did in past cycles. Not only did this drastically slow down the arrival of the Reapers, but it nullified their chances of capturing the Citadel because of how fortified it is. The Citadel is made of the same unknown material the the mass relays are, so if they were to try to force their way in, they would have to severely damage it, which the reapers wouldn't do.

#114
PnXMarcin1PL

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CKentSMV - mass relays were open ? I remember Joker saying im in the andura sector with entire arcturus fleet. We can save the ascencion. Open up the mass relays so we send the cavalery in.

#115
CynicalShep

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They were so scared of Shepard that they decided to bypass the Relay thing and attack Earth hoping that they could at least wound him and slow him down

#116
Maxster_

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GimmeDaGun wrote...

It's not a plothole: if it happened that way, there would be no ME3 or it would take 3 minutes (reapers come, invade, get the Citadel, shut down the relay network, Shep stucks on Earth and dies, reapers wipe out the galaxy in a few decades or centuries... happy ending).
...

It is not a plothole because there is no other way to write it differently? What a pathetic excuse.

It is exactly what it is - a plothole. Result of a horrible writing.
As is reapers arrival, as is was presented in ME3 - this destroyed overarching series plot.

#117
Meltemph

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It is either a plothole/forgotten or was originally left alone to DLC it out, I'm guessing. That said, that seems like a fairly massive thing to not explain in the game, and seems like a VERY hard thing to forget...

#118
Maxster_

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Meltemph wrote...

It is either a plothole/forgotten or was originally left alone to DLC it out, I'm guessing. That said, that seems like a fairly massive thing to not explain in the game, and seems like a VERY hard thing to forget...

"Retroactive foreshadowing" through paid DLC will never work. It is a plothole :wizard:

#119
Meltemph

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Maxster_ wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

It is either a plothole/forgotten or was originally left alone to DLC it out, I'm guessing. That said, that seems like a fairly massive thing to not explain in the game, and seems like a VERY hard thing to forget...

"Retroactive foreshadowing" through paid DLC will never work. It is a plothole :wizard:


Ya, it just is hard wrapping my head around someone(everyone) forgetting about this point.  Seems more like it was intentionally left alone, because they either didnt care or didnt think it was important?  Meh... Quite sure we are never going to get an answer(reason) to this one, so I just give up.

#120
Fredvdp

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I personally don't mind the necro. It's an interesting topic and worth
discussing again. If the necromancer had opened a new thread, then we wouldn't be able to read the arguments previously posted.

CKentSMV wrote...

Fredvdp: Actually Hackett's fleet was stuck outside the Citadel because the arms were closed as soon as Sovereign came in, locking everybody else out. Vigil's data file gave Shepard temporary control over the Citadel, and he opened up the arms to let in the Fifth Fleet. At no point were the Mass Relays shut off.

That's afterwards. Before this, Joker says the fleet is in a different system waiting for Shepard to open the relays. If I remember correctly the Ascension is stationed outside of the arms and you can either wait for the aliens to sacrifice themselves or send in the cavalry early.

I'm currently playing the game again and will pay extra attention when I get to this part to see if I missed something.

#121
Liamv2

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Good necro

#122
PnXMarcin1PL

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Liamv2 wrote...

Good necro


NECRO PARTY!
Everyone bring someone dead so we can exchange them later Posted ImagePosted Image

#123
solidprice

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Cybernetic_Queen wrote...

Well, the Mass Relay in the Citadel is nonfunctional. Avoiding ME3 spoilers, it's fair to say the Reapers never really took control of the Citadel (at least in the way Sovereign did in Mass Effect). If all Mass Relays eventually lead to the Citadel, it'd be likely that it's here that the Relays are able to be controlled. Also (considering a poster above gave details on the movement) the one thing I can think of is that the Reapers basically got cocky. The Relays gave them a quick way to fight an enemy that wasn't centralized (unlike the Prothean Empire focused on the Citadel, each races' true government was in a different sector).

Also, remember that Shepard destroyed the Relay in Arrival. It may be possible the Reapers feared being wiped out in a burst from a relay being destroyed and unable to leave the sector in time from the blast. Plot holes abound.


so in short, they had a handfull of major races in me3 to attack at once, wanted to do it fast and were afrid of shep nuking then with relays?:o
coolB)

#124
GimmeDaGun

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Maxster_ wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

It's not a plothole: if it happened that way, there would be no ME3 or it would take 3 minutes (reapers come, invade, get the Citadel, shut down the relay network, Shep stucks on Earth and dies, reapers wipe out the galaxy in a few decades or centuries... happy ending).
...

It is not a plothole because there is no other way to write it differently? What a pathetic excuse.

It is exactly what it is - a plothole. Result of a horrible writing.
As is reapers arrival, as is was presented in ME3 - this destroyed overarching series plot.



Hey Max! Good, to see you again! 

Yes, yes, "terrible" :lol:...the rest of your arguments I already know, and since I'm - how did you put it -  a "clown" and "wrong" and "pathetic", I don't think that I make a good argument for you and I don't have time for this bs. So... how did Ninja Stan say it?


"I respectfully disagree with you Maxter_." ;)

Byez! :D

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 22 janvier 2013 - 12:49 .


#125
GimmeDaGun

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Meltemph wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

It is either a plothole/forgotten or was originally left alone to DLC it out, I'm guessing. That said, that seems like a fairly massive thing to not explain in the game, and seems like a VERY hard thing to forget...

"Retroactive foreshadowing" through paid DLC will never work. It is a plothole :wizard:


Ya, it just is hard wrapping my head around someone(everyone) forgetting about this point.  Seems more like it was intentionally left alone, because they either didnt care or didnt think it was important?  Meh... Quite sure we are never going to get an answer(reason) to this one, so I just give up.




I don't think it's going to be fixed by dlc. We can call it a plothole, if you insist, but actually it's something that could have been hardly written around or solved in any way (without calling it a cop out or retcon): if Bioware did things according to Vigil's words and the reapers shut down the relays etc.. ... the story would have ended 5 minutes after the invasion of Earth. Basically Bioware cornered itself by its own writing in ME1: "the reapers are a force that can not be stopped", since they go and invade the Citadell anyway and take controll over the relay network... how do you stop them?

Either you come up with your own explanation, as many do here (including me) and it could even work or go the Maxter_ way: "plothole, terrible writing, plothole, retroactive foreshadowing, plothole, **** writing, bad, ****, bad, ****... but I'm here anyway, bickering ... lalalala"

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 22 janvier 2013 - 12:51 .