Well said Cheez! Casey and his team gave us an amazing world to play in and hopefully they will realize that it is because we love these characters and worlds that the reaction was so instant and emotional.
Cheez's biggest, mightiest, and possibly last epic rant. Devs, my darlings, read!
Débuté par
AdmiralCheez
, mars 26 2012 09:32
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#227
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:05
AlanC9
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Hunter of Legends wrote...
I think Bioware would be better off doing linear yet lengthy narratives.
Of course, then people would accuse them of betraying their RPG roots. Again.
#228
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:08
AlanC9
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WizenSlinky0 wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
Note that even a change that does satisfy a greater portion of the fans might nevertheless leave some fans worse off. I'm halfway resigned to having a happy ending crammed down my throat.
I highly doubt the current endings will not still be there in their original or semi-original form. I'm sorry if anything Bioware does makes things worse for you.
Thing is, if a tragic ending can be avoided, then it's just a screwup.
I'm hoping any changes are packaged stand-alone without additional extras. Makes it easier for people who read-up on it not to get it if it's going to interfer with their own satisfaction or make things worse on them.
Kind of what I'm hoping for too.
#229
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:09
Homebound
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
Guys, we were doing really well with this thread so far, so let's not fight. Hunter, I agree with Wizen: Never sit down, never shut up, never just let the people on top walk all over you.
i think its important we hold bioware to high standards and never let up on it. they wont get any better if we let how the game ended slide.
#230
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:12
Cainne Chapel
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AlanC9 wrote...
Hunter of Legends wrote...
I think Bioware would be better off doing linear yet lengthy narratives.
Of course, then people would accuse them of betraying their RPG roots. Again.
how so? Most RPGs up until the recent generations have been linear lengthy narratives mostly.
Player/Dialogue choice is a more recent addition to that paradigm, heck they STILL make RPGs were player choice is pretty much not a factor. Even good ones.
#231
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Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:14
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I wonder why people never complain about them betraying their action roots? They started there.AlanC9 wrote...
Hunter of Legends wrote...
I think Bioware would be better off doing linear yet lengthy narratives.
Of course, then people would accuse them of betraying their RPG roots. Again.
#232
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:15
Tuthsok
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Thank you for a great post. Very well said 
#233
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:16
slimgrin
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Hunter of Legends wrote...
I think Bioware would be better off doing linear yet lengthy narratives.
I thought this is what they already do.
#234
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:17
Bluko
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Don't worry the ME3 endings aren't real. If you look very closely at the endings it will become clear. But I will say no more. Though I do feel bad for folks who continue to dimiss such claims even when the evidence is continually staring them in the face. As someone who nitpicks everything, trust me on this.
However the unfortunate truth is anyone without an internet connection to their console is stuck with these poor excuses for endings. Also anyone who doesn't know about the DLC is more or less doomed. And it goes without saying it's rather cheeky to release a game without the ending proper or "epilogue" as I'm sure they'll call it. On one hand I guess what Bioware/EA did was pretty clever. Though I can't say I feel too sorry for all the flak they've gotten for this.
Lesson of the day don't release an unfinished game. Which ME3 surely is. The number of conversation glitches I've ran into on the 360 has been rather frightening and simply put not acceptable. Game really needed more development time. Would have much rather waited until June and had the complete ending to begin with .
However the unfortunate truth is anyone without an internet connection to their console is stuck with these poor excuses for endings. Also anyone who doesn't know about the DLC is more or less doomed. And it goes without saying it's rather cheeky to release a game without the ending proper or "epilogue" as I'm sure they'll call it. On one hand I guess what Bioware/EA did was pretty clever. Though I can't say I feel too sorry for all the flak they've gotten for this.
Lesson of the day don't release an unfinished game. Which ME3 surely is. The number of conversation glitches I've ran into on the 360 has been rather frightening and simply put not acceptable. Game really needed more development time. Would have much rather waited until June and had the complete ending to begin with .
Modifié par Bluko, 27 mars 2012 - 05:19 .
#237
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:21
Navywife64
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Very nicely said. Have fund and hugs.
#238
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:24
Chromie
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slimgrin wrote...
Hunter of Legends wrote...
I think Bioware would be better off doing linear yet lengthy narratives.
I thought this is what they already do.
People think they do
#239
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:40
Hunter of Legends
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slimgrin wrote...
Hunter of Legends wrote...
I think Bioware would be better off doing linear yet lengthy narratives.
I thought this is what they already do.
No, and if you think so you clearly don't know what linear means.
#240
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 05:41
Hunter of Legends
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Bluko wrote...
Don't worry the ME3 endings aren't real. If you look very closely at the endings it will become clear. But I will say no more. Though I do feel bad for folks who continue to dimiss such claims even when the evidence is continually staring them in the face. As someone who nitpicks everything, trust me on this.
I wish I had the ability to believe smoke and mirrors...I really do.
#241
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 06:18
Artemis_Entrari
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Great OP post. Sums up a lot of why the ending is such a disappointment for me, in regards to not only ME3, but the series as a whole.
#242
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 06:26
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Sounds like denial tbh.Bluko wrote...
Don't worry the ME3 endings aren't real. If you look very closely at the endings it will become clear. But I will say no more. Though I do feel bad for folks who continue to dimiss such claims even when the evidence is continually staring them in the face. As someone who nitpicks everything, trust me on this.
#244
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 06:36
Reofeir
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Even though I'm not part of the movement, seeing as my views on the ending is more of "Meh, but want more information"...this was a well made thread. Good job admiral.
#245
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 06:38
SaucyWiggles
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This was really well-written, and you summed up my thoughts as well.
I'm angry about the ending, but I'm refraining from lashing out at Bioware. Constructive criticism, I think, is what they need to hear.
What I need to hear is an apology. I wish for free DLC, but that's just a wish.
Bioware, please look into the company "CCP" and what occurred last summer when they unleashed the "Incarna" expansion to EvE Online. It will not only provide a lesson in owning up to your mistakes, but many solutions to your current predicament regarding your fanbase.
I'm angry about the ending, but I'm refraining from lashing out at Bioware. Constructive criticism, I think, is what they need to hear.
What I need to hear is an apology. I wish for free DLC, but that's just a wish.
Bioware, please look into the company "CCP" and what occurred last summer when they unleashed the "Incarna" expansion to EvE Online. It will not only provide a lesson in owning up to your mistakes, but many solutions to your current predicament regarding your fanbase.
#246
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 06:41
100k
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@WizenSlinky0
I guess I'm writing too fast to edit. What I should've said is "retcons/plotholes".
The Citadel's entire role in ME3 in both a retcon. A station-- a stationary base -- shouldn't be able to travel. Now, I guess its possible that the Reapers pushed the station into a relay launching it to Earth -- but how and why wasn't Shepard and the alliance warned?
We know that they have quantum entanglement devices that Shepard can use to talk to the council-- so why didn't they warn Shepard of their destination, or even their capture?
In regards to the Catalyst, we are faced with some problems:
1) Why would a Reaper agree with Shepard to destroy other Reapers? He says that his solution won't work any more...but why? Whats stopping him from just ignoring Shepard entirely, and letting him bleed out?
2) The Star Child states that Shepard can wipe out all synthetic life if he wants... but ignores the fact that the Reapers ARE NOT SYNTHETIC. This was the BIG revelation at the end of ME2. The Reapers are a hybrid of organic and inorganic material. Balak describes the Leviathan of Dis as being an "organic starship". So the star child's "trick" (think indoctrination theory) is both a retcon (of Reaper construction) and a plot hole (because Shepard-- also a bio-synthetic construct-- can survive the ending).
3) If the Catalyst is a Reaper, then why couldn't it override Citadel controls in ME1, and allow Sovereign to dock with it? In fact, why didn't the reapers shut off the relay system the moment they seized the citadel...you know...like how Vigil said they would!
Regarding the Reaper-Geth relationship: No. You. Are. Wrong. The Geth sought out Nazara because they saw her as the pinnacle of synthetic existence (and she's not synthetic). But some of the geth decided to choose their own path, free from Reaper influence.
In ME2 you either wipe out those loyal to the reapers, or you switch their mode of thinking.
Why then do the geth seek out the reapers for safety in ME3??????? It is a retcon of ME2's geth-Reaper relationship, and a retcon of geth ideology.
I guess I'm writing too fast to edit. What I should've said is "retcons/plotholes".
The Citadel's entire role in ME3 in both a retcon. A station-- a stationary base -- shouldn't be able to travel. Now, I guess its possible that the Reapers pushed the station into a relay launching it to Earth -- but how and why wasn't Shepard and the alliance warned?
We know that they have quantum entanglement devices that Shepard can use to talk to the council-- so why didn't they warn Shepard of their destination, or even their capture?
In regards to the Catalyst, we are faced with some problems:
1) Why would a Reaper agree with Shepard to destroy other Reapers? He says that his solution won't work any more...but why? Whats stopping him from just ignoring Shepard entirely, and letting him bleed out?
2) The Star Child states that Shepard can wipe out all synthetic life if he wants... but ignores the fact that the Reapers ARE NOT SYNTHETIC. This was the BIG revelation at the end of ME2. The Reapers are a hybrid of organic and inorganic material. Balak describes the Leviathan of Dis as being an "organic starship". So the star child's "trick" (think indoctrination theory) is both a retcon (of Reaper construction) and a plot hole (because Shepard-- also a bio-synthetic construct-- can survive the ending).
3) If the Catalyst is a Reaper, then why couldn't it override Citadel controls in ME1, and allow Sovereign to dock with it? In fact, why didn't the reapers shut off the relay system the moment they seized the citadel...you know...like how Vigil said they would!
Regarding the Reaper-Geth relationship: No. You. Are. Wrong. The Geth sought out Nazara because they saw her as the pinnacle of synthetic existence (and she's not synthetic). But some of the geth decided to choose their own path, free from Reaper influence.
In ME2 you either wipe out those loyal to the reapers, or you switch their mode of thinking.
Why then do the geth seek out the reapers for safety in ME3??????? It is a retcon of ME2's geth-Reaper relationship, and a retcon of geth ideology.
Modifié par 100k, 27 mars 2012 - 06:47 .
#247
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 06:45
100k
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"Protheans had such little knowledge left from their time there was nothing wrong with the protheans being a collection of species under one "Prothean Empire". Even in the current Mass Effect universe there's similar things, like the Hanar and the Drell, which are so entertwined into eachothers societies that they are considered the Hanar. The drell is just a subspecies within the hanar at this point."
It is a retcon. The developers said that the protheans were one species. Hell, in "From Ashes", Liara said that the protheans were one species-- then she says later in the DLC that they uplifted many species to join their empire.
Another thing that is a retcon is that the protheans came "close" to defeating the Reapers. Never, in the history of ME, until ME3, is this spoken of. Vigil, the prothean VI states that the protheans were utterly destroyed. No chance at fighting.
Even if Vigil missed the bit about the Crucible-- it wouldn't matter. Whatever system the Crucible was forged in during that cycle -- the protheans wouldn't be able to deploy it because the relay system is under Reaper control.
It is a retcon. The developers said that the protheans were one species. Hell, in "From Ashes", Liara said that the protheans were one species-- then she says later in the DLC that they uplifted many species to join their empire.
Another thing that is a retcon is that the protheans came "close" to defeating the Reapers. Never, in the history of ME, until ME3, is this spoken of. Vigil, the prothean VI states that the protheans were utterly destroyed. No chance at fighting.
Even if Vigil missed the bit about the Crucible-- it wouldn't matter. Whatever system the Crucible was forged in during that cycle -- the protheans wouldn't be able to deploy it because the relay system is under Reaper control.
#248
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 06:54
Hunter of Legends
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Sorry to say 100K but it's clear you didn't pay attention to the game and don't understand anything either.
No where is it stated the Protheans were capable or even close to beating the reapers. Not once.
The only problem with lore in ME3 (sans endings) is the willingness of Legion to use Reaper tech to give the Geth a future.
No where is it stated the Protheans were capable or even close to beating the reapers. Not once.
The only problem with lore in ME3 (sans endings) is the willingness of Legion to use Reaper tech to give the Geth a future.
Modifié par Hunter of Legends, 27 mars 2012 - 06:55 .
#249
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 07:01
Sharn01
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Well said Cheez!
Also, you score major brownie points for not knowing how to use twitter.
Also, you score major brownie points for not knowing how to use twitter.
#250
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 07:02
100k
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Hunter of Legends wrote...Sorry to say 100K but it's clear you didn't pay attention to the game and don't understand anything either.
No where is it stated the Protheans were capable or even close to beating the reapers. Not once.
Hackett says so. So to does an actual Bioware dev.
That's the best you've got? No real reply to my points, just a simple "you're wrong because you're dumb"?
The only problem with lore in ME3 (sans endings) is the willingness of Legion to use Reaper tech to give the Geth a future.
Don't you get it? That completely contradicts Legion's motivations in ME2! That means that his motives are retcon'd!
Legion's whole purpose in ME2 was to show that the geth were building their own future-- without Reaper aid. End of story. His point is that the geth aren't Reaper drones hoping to accend. That is LITERALLY what he says.
Don't bother replying unless you have an actual response.
Modifié par 100k, 27 mars 2012 - 07:04 .
