880 réponses à ce sujet

[sveners]

Thank you for this

[Iron Spetsnaz]

Uh, everyone does realise that BioWare is NOT making new endings right? because they would have to remake the whole game.

One (Actually 2 questions) question cheez, how would you finish the ME3 ending? and what is your opinion on the Indoctrination Theory (Not that it won't make any difference (As mentioned earlier BioWare is not changing but explaining the endings) but still we just want your opinion).


Edit: If BioWare didn't promise a good ending, would the reaction have been what it was?

what if BioWare said that although your decisions might not affect the ending of ME3 but it will affect the way the Post-Reaper galaxy looks in future games?

What if BioWare said NOTHING about ME3 except in advertising?

Modifié par Iron Spetsnaz, 27 mars 2012 - 08:10 .

[tute]

Very well said. I agree with your post.
To me what angers me the most is that bioware took the concept of cosmicism to a whole new lvl. It's present in the entire trilogy very well done, and troughout it they led us on the promise that our choices could have a impact on the large scale of things. Then comes the ending and bam, everything you did did not matter. Bioware either loves the idea of cosmicism or they actually believe in it. Dont know which one is worse

[soozy]

Cheez whiz, that was a good read! Love how you show that those of us who are vocal about our disappointment with the ending because we love the series so much.

[InsaneTofu69]

 I agree with much of what Cheez said.

I myself might not be as good at conveying a point as Cheez, but I understand how they feel. I myself am a college student taking Computer Technician classes.

I remember a few years back when Mass Effect 2 came out. I saw the trailers online but wasn't sure what to make of it. I did want to play it, but being a poor college student at the time, I couldn't afford to do it. I remeber the day I actually got to see the game in action. My boyfriend at the time was playing it, and I would lay in bed and watch him. I remember hearing the music to Ilos when I was half asleep. It was beautiful. I saw the landscape as well and I fell in love with it.

A year or so later when I got my Xbox, I got Mass Effect. Being able to play it myself...it was wonderful. The graphics were beautiful, the story compelling, and I found myself taking a liking to the characters and even my own Shepard. She represented my morals and I , in essence, poured my personality into her. At the end when I thought my Shepard died...I nearly cryed. But then...I heard a noise and saw her rise from underneath the rubble. I cried in joy. And when the Council thanked her for saving them...I swelled with pride. I know, strange to do that with a game, but I was immersed.

I did not hesitate in getting Mass Effect 2. I continued onward in my quest. Once again I was captivated by the world. And along the way, I fell in love with Garrus. He may be a turian, but he is so sweet. I also felt that way with Joker. I was a bit sad you couldn't romance him, but I accepted it.  I remember when I got to the scene when the Collectors abducted the crew. The music was sinister and the chances of being caught were high. I will admit, for the first time in a game I was frightened.

When I heard Mass Effect 3 was coming out soon, I was ecstatic! And it was coming out a week before my birthday! I followed the twitter accounts often, and checked back on the website and forums just to see how it was coming along. I'm pretty sure my sister and friends got pretty tired of me mentioning my excitement for the game. I might have been a little over the top, but I didn't care. It was all worth it. I remember going to the midnight release and getting the game I was so excited. I was surprised I had enough patience to download the DLC, but I did as I put up my poster of Shepard on my wall while giggling like a loon.

When I got into the game I was awestruck. The graphics were so beautiful. The characters were full of life. I imported a save so I got to see many of the characters I was with in the previous one. I channeled all my rage into Kai Leng when he all but killed Thane. I have never hated someone so much in my life and despite me being pure Paragon, I could not help but stop and stab him with that Omni-blade, and I smiled as she said exactly what I was thinking: "That's for Thane you Son of a B**ch!" 

I saw my decisions come to fruition and I managed to unite all of the races. The Quarians, Turians, Krogan and Geth. Asari, Salarians, Humans and all the other races. It was beautiful. The assault was beautiful. All was going well. I got excited at the thought of turian-human babies, or at least adopting a krogan with Garrus. The love scenes were so sweet. I enjoyed it all and had quite a few tears and crying moments. The part with Captain Anderson was beautfiul and sad. I heard the extended version online and I bawled to bits.

But then the last five minutes happened.

All I worked for, all I cared for and loved amounted to nothing. Simply pick a color. Words cannot express how disappointed I was. Everyone was stranded, Joker ended up on some backwater world with my squad, who by the way should not have had enough time to get to the ship, and my Shepard, whom I have played with through all the games, just dies! She doesn't get to be with Garrus or visit Tali in her new home on Rannoch. None of my choices seemed to matter at all. I felt so used. I invested all my time into this game, creating a better universe only to have it all shattered to pieces. 

Don't get me wrong, I learned a lot from this game too. I learned patience. I learned how to earn people's trust with sincerity. I learned that there is always another way, that even I can do the impossible. It made me a better person as a whole. The game was a wonderful work of art...until it's final minutes. And as I said before, don't get me wrong, but the series was wonderful and Bioware outdid themselves. But the last minutes were a huge disappointment. I am not saying everything has to be sunshine and bunnies, but shouldn't there be something else besides "You die, you die, or MAYBE you die?"

I know this seems very long winded, but Cheez inspired me. I think quite a few people can agree with Cheez as well. Like they said: We aren't upset because we feel we are a bunch of entitled children; we are upset because a majority of us feel lied too. We worked so hard only to be told it wasn't worth anything.

I tried to convey how I feel about all of this, sorry if any of it failed. 

*Edited for clarification*

Modifié par InsaneTofu69, 27 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[Johcande XX]

Good OP. +1

[bellabri287]

it's like your in my head!!!!!!!! great post, hope Bioware reads this.

[lofte_2000]

Thanks Cheez you made me cry exactly how I feel, I was sat at my desk nodding at every sentence. I hope they take note.

Modifié par lofte_2000, 27 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[Graceyn]

+1

I couldn't have said it better, and I do a lot of writing.  On the downside, you made me all sad again .

Bioware, may you take this post to heart, as the articulate and heartfelt expression of so very many Mass Effect fans, and accept her challenge.

Please.

[Machazareel]

I fully support this post. Very well written, Cheez.

[Iron Spetsnaz]

Graceyn wrote...

+1

I couldn't have said it better, and I do a lot of writing.  On the downside, you made me all sad again .

Bioware, may you take this post to heart, as the articulate and heartfelt expression of so very many Mass Effect fans, and accept her challenge.

Please.

No chance.

BioWare is not changing or making any new endings, they are going to explain the endings whether people like it or not.

[Omega Torsk]

You said it all, Cheez! *removes hat in admiration*

[Reign Tsumiraki]

 I could not have said it better. I got Mass Effect 1 as a gift from my uncle, when I was in high school. Now I'm working on college, about to graduate. This series was inspiring to me. And the ending spiraled me into depression, because I knew I would never be albe to play Mass Effect 1 or 2 the same way ever again, knowing that no matter what I do, I will always get to that point. 

I will always have to listen to that kid. 

Joker will always run away.

My Normandy will always crash. 

Shepard will always die. 

His LI will always suffer. 

And I will never be able to do a damn thing about it. 

[G Kevin]

I just have to say Cheez, you may have summed up your feelings here but you have just summed up my feelings as well and I thank you for that. For some reason this thread has given me a bit of peace.

Keelah se'lai.

[UndeadTRex]

Very well written.

[djegotrip]

Well put Cheez

[ardias89]

Very close to my opinion, thjanks for taking the time to write it down.
Btw OP is right we are not hating Bioware, we love them... our feelings just got a litle... too strong

[Electric Pig]

Well said Admiral.

When the time comes my fleets are yours.

*hands fleets*

[RocketManSR2]

So many heartbreaking stories ITT... BioWare, if you listen to nothing else, please read these stories. You've hurt so many people with the endings. That's not business, that's personal. Do what you can to make it right. Please.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Nice read Cheez.

The endings are just so .... terrible in every possible aspect (aside from the music I guess).

[HooblaDGN]

What that guy said. This epic series deserves a fantastic ending. Heck, a fantastic variation of endingS. Anything less and they've let themselves, their fans, and the future remembrance of this tale down.

[Fail_Inc]

Like a krogan...gentleman

kudos to you mate

[SovereignFate]

You stated exactly how i feel cheez! thanks for posting all of your feelings on this, i think many of us (Mass Effect Nerds) feel just as sad and betrayed. We also would love to see it fixed!
Hold the Line!

[Turran]

I agree with everything you have said.

But also, I think Bioware needs to take a look at how they handled the whole situation, they almost added fuel to the fire throughout the whole outrage by just not giving a straight answer and being cryptic about everything.

I hope we all walk away with something at the end of the day, I don't want to see Bioware like this and I don't want to see it destroyed.

[AdmiralCheez]

Iron Spetsnaz wrote...

Uh, everyone does realise that BioWare is NOT making new endings right? because they would have to remake the whole game.

Not really.  Redoing the last hour so it takes into account the rest of the game/series is what counts.  We know they can do that; past DLCs have read and reacted to plot flags from within the core game.  The biggest expense, I think, would be calling in the voice actors, but Brooks and Sbarge read the Horizon letter as a gift to the fans, and we know that a lot of other actors really love Mass Effect and its fanbase, so maybe they can negotiate and work something out.  Plus they can copypasta a lot of stuff that's already there, like the squadmate goodbyes, death of Anderson, and confrontation with TIM.

One (Actually 2 questions) question cheez, how would you finish the ME3 ending? and what is your opinion on the Indoctrination Theory (Not that it won't make any difference (As mentioned earlier BioWare is not changing but explaining the endings) but still we just want your opinion).

1. For starters, the endgame sequence would have been more reactive to past decisions and current gameplay in general.  During the final push, you'd see more of the forces you'd rallied fighting, and you'd see more of how well/poorly they were doing based on your War Assets and stuff.  Examples:

-A. The Reapers make a hard push for the Crucible itself while you run for the Conduit on Earth.  Much like the fight with Sovereign in ME1, cutscenes of the battle in orbit intermingle with fighting on the ground.  You see the various fleets you've gathered (they make a point to show each faction at least momentarily) engaging the Reapers in heavy dogfights with lots of pew-pew.

The outcome of the battle in the air is determined by your total "Fleet" assets.  If your Fleet assets are WITHIN a certain range, the Reapers are pushed back, but the Sword takes some considerable damage.  Hackett is killed, the Destiny Ascension (if present) goes down, but the Normandy is okay.  If your Fleet assets are BELOW that range, then the Reapers manage to break through and damage the Crucible before being pushed back.  Hackett and the DA still die, you see a lot more ships go down, and your "Research" assets suffer a penalty.  The Normandy goes down, too, killing everyone aboard, including Samantha, Joker, and EDI (you get a special cutscene showing her body suddenly deactivating).  If your fleet assets are ABOVE that range, the Sword repels the Reapers successfully, and Hackett and everyone else are okay even though a few unnamed ships blow up.

-B.  The battle for London is handled similarly, taking care to show you all the people fighting alongside you.  More Reaper forces are closing on your position as you push for the Conduit, and some of your allies (including the squadmates you did not choose for your "final pair") agree to help take the pressure off, and they get some badass cutscenes that intermingle with combat as well, just like how the Sword's progress was showed off previously.

Like the Sword, the Hammer's success depends on specific assets, only this time it's your Infantry/Ground/What-have-you.  If the Hammer's strength is WITHIN a certain range of points, you lose a few allies (randomized, but never anyone you romanced) and any squadmates not in your party that you have a low relationship score with (but one of them will always die, provided they are not your love interest).  If the Hammer's strength is ABOVE that range, everybody kicks ass and you only lose redshirts, but if it's BELOW that range, pretty much all named characters on the ground (except Anderson and the two in your party) bite it.  If your current love interest dies (it defaults to the ME3 one, but recognizes the one from ME2 if you stayed loyal), they get a cutscene in which they get gored by a Brute or whatever, and Shepard hears they've died over the radio and gets to react appropriately.

-C. Once you reach the Conduit, Harby shows up and attacks you.  Shepard and your current squad are knocked back.  Anderson helps Shepard up, but it looks like your buddies are down for the count (a busted-up Shepard sadfaces at this).  The two of you jump into the Conduit together (after Marauder Shields and friends make their signature appearance), and you have the confrontation with TIM, only TIM's at the control panel already, while Anderson is at Shepard's side, thus preventing Magical Teleporting Characers.  Other than that, the fight with TIM is the same, and Shepard and Anderson scene proceeds as usual.

After Anderson dies, Shepard gets up to activate the Crucible.  Suddenly, however, your two squadmates from the final push show up--they're okay, and they came after you.  They ask what the hell happened, and Shepard gets a dialogue wheel (because we don't get enough of those) to explain.

Then one of your squadmates (in this priority order: EDI, Liara, Kaidan, Garrus, Tali, Ashley, James, but NEVER Javik, see below for why) steps forward to analyze the control panel.  He/she announces that...

IF "RESEARCH" ASSETS ARE BELOW A CERTAIN RANGE: The Crucible will kill the Reapers, but feedback from it will destroy the Relays, the Citadel (along with everyone aboard, including you), and EDI/the Geth (if alive) because of integrated Reaper programs within their systems.

IF "RESEARCH" ASSETS ARE WITHIN A CERTAIN RANGE: The Crucible will kill the Reapers, but feedback from it will destroy the Relays and EDI/the Geth (if alive) because of integrated Reaper programs within their systems. 

IF "RESEARCH" ASSETS ARE ABOVE A CERTAIN RANGE: The Crucible will destroy the Reapers, but feedback from it will also kill EDI/the Geth (if alive) because of integrated Reaper programs within their systems (there's no catch if EDI/the Geth have already been wiped out, good for you).

The second squadmate says that the sacrifice will be worth it (if there is one).  The first squadmate looks over the data again, and then comes to the shocking conclusion that TIM was right after all--the Reapers CAN be controlled.  This would save the Citadel/Relays/synthetics (but not the Relays if you have "Reseach" assets below the target range), but it's not clear what will happen to the person controlling them, nor how long this control will last.  The second squadmate is against the idea (especially Javik--this is why he's never the one to say what the Crucible can do), and there's a bit of a back-and-forth between them and Shepard where everyone gets there opinions out and weighs the pros and cons.

Once you've made your final decision, Shepard steps forward and activates the control panel.  The energy of the Crucible reaches out and ensnares him/her in either red (destroy) or blue (control, which will eventually kill him/her) lightning as the device powers up and begins to fire the Space Magic Beam.

I'm not sure if this should be in or not, but maybe here, while Shepard's trapped at the control panel, a very pissed and very desperate Harbinger could forcefully "assume control" of one of your squadmates, and you have to play as the other and fight them off while the Crucible finishes powering up.  If you (as a squaddie) die trying to protect Shepard, then the controlled squaddie will attempt to kill Shepard, but the device activates, and the final cutscene triggers.  Otherwise, the cutscene triggers when you defeat the controlled squadmate.

Alternatively, because again I'm not sure if one last ASSUMING CONTROL isn't dumb and stupid and also dumb, the squadmates don't catch up to you (they were simply KO'd but not killed by the blast), and Harbinger simply replaces StarKid as the last person you talk to.  Copypasta from something I wrote previously:

Harbinger claims that the Reapers are the final rung on the evolutionary ladder, that everyone's only choice is either ascending as one of them or perishing in the chaos. Organic civilization is too primitive and destructive, and in its short-sightedness it will advance too far and doom itself, either by selfishly consuming or destroying the galaxy's finite resources, or by creating a technology they can't control and wiping themselves out. The cycle preserves the worthiest of organic species in a perfect, immortal form, and in doing so clears the way for new life which will, in turn, run its course. The Reapers, according to Harbinger, are the true saviors of the galaxy, and without them all life would have already perished.

The truth, however is far less altruistic. Shepard challenges Harbinger's claims, and after a lengthy back-and-forth it turns out that the Reapers are afraid. They know that life will, one day, inevitably end. All stars will one day burn out, all worlds will wither and die. In their current form, the Reapers have the best shot at outlasting the ultimate end times, but only if nobody else surpasses them technologically, thus they attempt to control the evolution of all civilizations as best they can. They can't destroy life outright because they need it: the Reapers have reached an evolutionary dead end, and the only way to make themselves stronger and more numerous is to incorporate the genetic material and technological innovations of other races. Every cycle, the chances of them, or any life at all, surviving a very distant and very unpleasant future go up.

Like any other sapient being, the Reapers do not want to die, and they'll do anything to keep from dying. They are a representation of our own fear of death and the unknown, given godlike powers to show how sometimes our struggle for survival and power can consume us.

As Shepard goes forth to activate the Crucible, Harbinger warns that, even with the Reapers gone, chaos and death will still be inevitable. The civilizations of this cycle will either be forced to become like the Reapers on their own, or face this inevitable death. It cannot be avoided. It cannot be fought. And without the Reapers, it cannot be outlasted.

Shepard's final line: "Then we'll just have to learn to not be afraid of it."

And then the final cutscene cometh.  Stuff gets killed/controlled/saved all across the galaxy, with more attention to detail than what we got, and characters we have a personal connection with (as opposed to the nameless Alliance soldiers) shown reacting to what's happening.

When the dust finally settles, we see two surviving squad/crewmates (you only get this if you have at least two left alive) walking about a ruined London.  They talk about the costs of the war and what it'll take to rebuild, mentioning that they wish Shepard had lived to at least see a free galaxy once it was all finally over.  One of them steps on something.  They look down; it's a toy ship like the one from the opening cutscene.  They bend down to pick it up, then notice a little girl peeking out shyly from behind a pile of rubble.  The character smiles and offers it to her.  She quietly shuffles up, looking a little unsure at first, then grins, snatches the toy ship, and runs off giggling.  There's a final word between the two characters, and then the credits roll.

After the credits, if the Citadel was not destroyed, we see a multi-species rescue team (because UNITED GALAXY YAY) enter the final chamber.  They mention that none of them recognize the area, and wonder what happened there.  One of them, an asari, comes across Shepard's corpse.  She bends down, noticing the N7 tags.  She stares in disbelief.  "Hey guys, I think I just found..." her voice trails off--best not to make a big deal out of it right now.  Wistfully, she checks for a pulse.

If you chose CONTROL, Shepard is dead, and she sighs, picks up the dog tags, and stands up.  "Thanks, hero," she says with a warm smile, then goes back to looking for other survivors.

If you chose DESTROY, however, she pulls a hand away in shock.  Puts her ear to Shepard's mouth.  Jumps up.  "Guys!" she calls out.  "Give me some help over here!"

End game.

Edit: If BioWare didn't promise a good ending, would the reaction have been what it was?

I think everyone would still be upset, but at the very least they wouldn't be able to call Bioware liars.

what if BioWare said that although your decisions might not affect the ending of ME3 but it will affect the way the Post-Reaper galaxy looks in future games?

You don't nerf your current product in hopes that people will buy a future one.

What if BioWare said NOTHING about ME3 except in advertising?

With all the leaks?  It's not like they had to.  But still, I loved the dev tweets, and I appreciated the communication.  I still appreciate it.