880 réponses à ce sujet

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

lol. read " i feel like i know you" stopped, laughed out loud. hahahahaha

[Hatikvah07]

Nailed it. Great read.

[Iwillbeback]

davidshooter wrote...

Eebatsama wrote...

Who are you?

Are you for real?

I think he is, I don't who he is and frankly I don't care.

[Zu Long]

I endorse this letter 100%. Mass Effect had the potential to become the Star Wars or Star Trek of this generation. Don't let that slip away in the name of a false sense of artistic integrity.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Beautiful, Cheez. Heartfelt, and echoed pretty much every sentiment I have on the matter.

I am also not content to let this beautiful franchise die as "the game with the bad ending." That's why I hold the line, not because I want a better ending...because I want Mass Effect to leave a lasting, meaningful legacy.

[Mad Cassidy]

*Salutes*

[Hy0ga]

I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite post in the Bioware forums.

[arisian]

As others have said, well thought and well written. I sometimes wonder if Bioware would still be seeing so much hope for a fixed ending if they hadn't built three great games around the theme of "hope against impossible odds"...

[calvinocious]

This.

This is what every single fan feels, even if we come off as callous jerks with no respect for the creative process.

This is love, plain and simple. I described the ending as feeling like a bad breakup, and there's a reason for that. It just wasn't meant to end that way.

Thank you, Cheez, for this elegant and heartfelt response. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Kilshrek]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
ending
*snip*
ending

You know... this works incredily well... I suppose I don't have to tell you that, but it's the Destroy ending which gives me a happy, as that's the bittersweet sort of ending I can live with. 

Would be cooler if it were a random squaddie who walks up to Shep at the end, but we can't have everything now can we? Plus it leaves us with plenty of wriggle room for what happens after, I guess..

*applause*

[SnakeStrike8]

Cheers to you, Ms. Cheez. I wish you the best of luck towards your bachelor's degree, and I offer congratulations if you've already acquired one.

[Hy0ga]

I agree 112% with the OP. But I beg you guys, have a little faith! We can all agree with one thing; Mass Effect is a freaking, fantastic, mindblowing epic! Let's not doubt them for at least one single minute and imagine what kind of epicness they can pull off.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10706859/1

Modifié par Hy0ga, 27 mars 2012 - 11:26 .

[Palladin123]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

It’ll take an enormous amount of courage, effort, and humility to make this right

Great post. Totally agree with everything you said. Bioware created one of the best game universes of all time and sadly managed to ruin most of it in the last 5 min. I especially like your statement above about courage and humility. Bioware is a great company but they need courage and humility to admit they made a mistake. It's what differentiates a good institution from a great instituion. 

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

My advise is to let ME3 go and move on with your life. There are so many other games out there, and more in the future that will captivate you in the same way Mass Effect did. Hell, chances are it'll also be done by bioware.

Like many people, I was emotionally distraught for a brief period after seeing how Shepard's story ended. But honestly ultimately its just an ending to a form of entertainment. An ending will not have any major impact on your life, or your being - and nor should it. If you allow an ending to a form of media to have an incredible emotional impact on your being, you have far bigger concerns than simply fixing an ending, and you're life will improve ten fold if you fix the issues that make you emotionally dependent on a video game.

That isn't to say I'm saying that is the case in OP's example, but I've seen many posters talk about ending induced depression and quite frankly a fix to the ending is only going to cover up more important cracks in one's being.

I was somehow depressed about ME3's ending...for 2 days. Then "I started recovery". Last week I was surprisingly capable of start playing it again and I've been having fun although it's not the same as starting ME2 again like it was at the time.

I may be even capable of getting into all the new stuff that will come. Who knows. Although I'll never truly find "acceptance". The ending is an unforgivable mistake, much more than all the bugs and design mistakes. I'm still shocked how they let Casey and Mac end the trilogy like this and how the reception to it surprised them. Oh wait...I think that like us they had all the trust in them and they were also surprised in how bad it was.

[Terraforming2154]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You guys are the ones who get to make the final call, but I think you owe it yourselves, your artwork, your company, and your fans to fix this.  The fanbase is upset not because we’re a bunch of entitled jerks, but because we love the hell out of Mass Effect, and we want to see you guys do the best you can and succeed.  ME3 is supposed to be your crown jewel, your magnum opus, the epitome of everything you are capable of as programmers, writers, and artists.  You screwed up, and that’s okay; we all screw up.  But this is your baby.

Really blunt and well said, Cheez.

I hope that at least one dev sees and reads your post - I think it speaks for a lot of fans.

[Devils-DIVISION]

OP: good sir, you have said it wonderfully!
You have put in words what I and so many of us have had little time to do. So thank you!
Take a read BW, we are not the minority, but the majority who are dissatisfied with the ending.
I loved it up until the magic elevator. The scene with Shep and Anderson sitting down was -beautiful! But I have faith in BW that they'll come up with something grand.

Modifié par Devils-DIVISION, 27 mars 2012 - 11:38 .

[HansODST]

New favorite post on the BSN...but why does my cynicism prevent me from believing that any Bioware higher-ups will actually read this wonderfully well crafted letter?

[Jacob1805]

This is probably one of the most well put together arguments against the ending, as compared to the rest of the games. It was long, yet, I found myself enjoying the read. I too immensely enjoyed each game, and the ending to ME2 was just fantastic. The suicide mission made you feel like your prior actions mattered. I just finished another complete play through of ME1-ME3, and every moment in those games are emotionally charged and captivating, until the ending. On a second play through, the ending of ME3 just felt rushed, and haphazard. My decisions mattered not, and explanations were not given. I thank bioware for the awesomeness that is each of their games, but I can't bring myself to enjoy the final moments of ME3. 

Modifié par Jacob1805, 27 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[FemmeShep]

I think what OP does great, is capturing the emotional aspect of how many of us feel. That's where this really wins.We can talk all day about why the ending from a literary sense technically fails, but this captures how it made us feel (or how it didn't make us feel).

Modifié par FemmeShep, 27 mars 2012 - 11:43 .

[Iron Spetsnaz]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Iron Spetsnaz wrote...

Uh, everyone does realise that BioWare is NOT making new endings right? because they would have to remake the whole game.

Not really.  Redoing the last hour so it takes into account the rest of the game/series is what counts.  We know they can do that; past DLCs have read and reacted to plot flags from within the core game.  The biggest expense, I think, would be calling in the voice actors, but Brooks and Sbarge read the Horizon letter as a gift to the fans, and we know that a lot of other actors really love Mass Effect and its fanbase, so maybe they can negotiate and work something out.  Plus they can copypasta a lot of stuff that's already there, like the squadmate goodbyes, death of Anderson, and confrontation with TIM.

One (Actually 2 questions) question cheez, how would you finish the ME3 ending? and what is your opinion on the Indoctrination Theory (Not that it won't make any difference (As mentioned earlier BioWare is not changing but explaining the endings) but still we just want your opinion).

1. For starters, the endgame sequence would have been more reactive to past decisions and current gameplay in general.  During the final push, you'd see more of the forces you'd rallied fighting, and you'd see more of how well/poorly they were doing based on your War Assets and stuff.  Examples:

-A. The Reapers make a hard push for the Crucible itself while you run for the Conduit on Earth.  Much like the fight with Sovereign in ME1, cutscenes of the battle in orbit intermingle with fighting on the ground.  You see the various fleets you've gathered (they make a point to show each faction at least momentarily) engaging the Reapers in heavy dogfights with lots of pew-pew.

The outcome of the battle in the air is determined by your total "Fleet" assets.  If your Fleet assets are WITHIN a certain range, the Reapers are pushed back, but the Sword takes some considerable damage.  Hackett is killed, the Destiny Ascension (if present) goes down, but the Normandy is okay.  If your Fleet assets are BELOW that range, then the Reapers manage to break through and damage the Crucible before being pushed back.  Hackett and the DA still die, you see a lot more ships go down, and your "Research" assets suffer a penalty.  The Normandy goes down, too, killing everyone aboard, including Samantha, Joker, and EDI (you get a special cutscene showing her body suddenly deactivating).  If your fleet assets are ABOVE that range, the Sword repels the Reapers successfully, and Hackett and everyone else are okay even though a few unnamed ships blow up.

-B.  The battle for London is handled similarly, taking care to show you all the people fighting alongside you.  More Reaper forces are closing on your position as you push for the Conduit, and some of your allies (including the squadmates you did not choose for your "final pair") agree to help take the pressure off, and they get some badass cutscenes that intermingle with combat as well, just like how the Sword's progress was showed off previously.

Like the Sword, the Hammer's success depends on specific assets, only this time it's your Infantry/Ground/What-have-you.  If the Hammer's strength is WITHIN a certain range of points, you lose a few allies (randomized, but never anyone you romanced) and any squadmates not in your party that you have a low relationship score with (but one of them will always die, provided they are not your love interest).  If the Hammer's strength is ABOVE that range, everybody kicks ass and you only lose redshirts, but if it's BELOW that range, pretty much all named characters on the ground (except Anderson and the two in your party) bite it.  If your current love interest dies (it defaults to the ME3 one, but recognizes the one from ME2 if you stayed loyal), they get a cutscene in which they get gored by a Brute or whatever, and Shepard hears they've died over the radio and gets to react appropriately.

-C. Once you reach the Conduit, Harby shows up and attacks you.  Shepard and your current squad are knocked back.  Anderson helps Shepard up, but it looks like your buddies are down for the count (a busted-up Shepard sadfaces at this).  The two of you jump into the Conduit together (after Marauder Shields and friends make their signature appearance), and you have the confrontation with TIM, only TIM's at the control panel already, while Anderson is at Shepard's side, thus preventing Magical Teleporting Characers.  Other than that, the fight with TIM is the same, and Shepard and Anderson scene proceeds as usual.

After Anderson dies, Shepard gets up to activate the Crucible.  Suddenly, however, your two squadmates from the final push show up--they're okay, and they came after you.  They ask what the hell happened, and Shepard gets a dialogue wheel (because we don't get enough of those) to explain.

Then one of your squadmates (in this priority order: EDI, Liara, Kaidan, Garrus, Tali, Ashley, James, but NEVER Javik, see below for why) steps forward to analyze the control panel.  He/she announces that...

IF "RESEARCH" ASSETS ARE BELOW A CERTAIN RANGE: The Crucible will kill the Reapers, but feedback from it will destroy the Relays, the Citadel (along with everyone aboard, including you), and EDI/the Geth (if alive) because of integrated Reaper programs within their systems.

IF "RESEARCH" ASSETS ARE WITHIN A CERTAIN RANGE: The Crucible will kill the Reapers, but feedback from it will destroy the Relays and EDI/the Geth (if alive) because of integrated Reaper programs within their systems. 

IF "RESEARCH" ASSETS ARE ABOVE A CERTAIN RANGE: The Crucible will destroy the Reapers, but feedback from it will also kill EDI/the Geth (if alive) because of integrated Reaper programs within their systems (there's no catch if EDI/the Geth have already been wiped out, good for you).

The second squadmate says that the sacrifice will be worth it (if there is one).  The first squadmate looks over the data again, and then comes to the shocking conclusion that TIM was right after all--the Reapers CAN be controlled.  This would save the Citadel/Relays/synthetics (but not the Relays if you have "Reseach" assets below the target range), but it's not clear what will happen to the person controlling them, nor how long this control will last.  The second squadmate is against the idea (especially Javik--this is why he's never the one to say what the Crucible can do), and there's a bit of a back-and-forth between them and Shepard where everyone gets there opinions out and weighs the pros and cons.

Once you've made your final decision, Shepard steps forward and activates the control panel.  The energy of the Crucible reaches out and ensnares him/her in either red (destroy) or blue (control, which will eventually kill him/her) lightning as the device powers up and begins to fire the Space Magic Beam.

I'm not sure if this should be in or not, but maybe here, while Shepard's trapped at the control panel, a very pissed and very desperate Harbinger could forcefully "assume control" of one of your squadmates, and you have to play as the other and fight them off while the Crucible finishes powering up.  If you (as a squaddie) die trying to protect Shepard, then the controlled squaddie will attempt to kill Shepard, but the device activates, and the final cutscene triggers.  Otherwise, the cutscene triggers when you defeat the controlled squadmate.

Alternatively, because again I'm not sure if one last ASSUMING CONTROL isn't dumb and stupid and also dumb, the squadmates don't catch up to you (they were simply KO'd but not killed by the blast), and Harbinger simply replaces StarKid as the last person you talk to.  Copypasta from something I wrote previously:

Harbinger claims that the Reapers are the final rung on the evolutionary ladder, that everyone's only choice is either ascending as one of them or perishing in the chaos. Organic civilization is too primitive and destructive, and in its short-sightedness it will advance too far and doom itself, either by selfishly consuming or destroying the galaxy's finite resources, or by creating a technology they can't control and wiping themselves out. The cycle preserves the worthiest of organic species in a perfect, immortal form, and in doing so clears the way for new life which will, in turn, run its course. The Reapers, according to Harbinger, are the true saviors of the galaxy, and without them all life would have already perished.

The truth, however is far less altruistic. Shepard challenges Harbinger's claims, and after a lengthy back-and-forth it turns out that the Reapers are afraid. They know that life will, one day, inevitably end. All stars will one day burn out, all worlds will wither and die. In their current form, the Reapers have the best shot at outlasting the ultimate end times, but only if nobody else surpasses them technologically, thus they attempt to control the evolution of all civilizations as best they can. They can't destroy life outright because they need it: the Reapers have reached an evolutionary dead end, and the only way to make themselves stronger and more numerous is to incorporate the genetic material and technological innovations of other races. Every cycle, the chances of them, or any life at all, surviving a very distant and very unpleasant future go up.

Like any other sapient being, the Reapers do not want to die, and they'll do anything to keep from dying. They are a representation of our own fear of death and the unknown, given godlike powers to show how sometimes our struggle for survival and power can consume us.

As Shepard goes forth to activate the Crucible, Harbinger warns that, even with the Reapers gone, chaos and death will still be inevitable. The civilizations of this cycle will either be forced to become like the Reapers on their own, or face this inevitable death. It cannot be avoided. It cannot be fought. And without the Reapers, it cannot be outlasted.

Shepard's final line: "Then we'll just have to learn to not be afraid of it."

And then the final cutscene cometh.  Stuff gets killed/controlled/saved all across the galaxy, with more attention to detail than what we got, and characters we have a personal connection with (as opposed to the nameless Alliance soldiers) shown reacting to what's happening.

When the dust finally settles, we see two surviving squad/crewmates (you only get this if you have at least two left alive) walking about a ruined London.  They talk about the costs of the war and what it'll take to rebuild, mentioning that they wish Shepard had lived to at least see a free galaxy once it was all finally over.  One of them steps on something.  They look down; it's a toy ship like the one from the opening cutscene.  They bend down to pick it up, then notice a little girl peeking out shyly from behind a pile of rubble.  The character smiles and offers it to her.  She quietly shuffles up, looking a little unsure at first, then grins, snatches the toy ship, and runs off giggling.  There's a final word between the two characters, and then the credits roll.

After the credits, if the Citadel was not destroyed, we see a multi-species rescue team (because UNITED GALAXY YAY) enter the final chamber.  They mention that none of them recognize the area, and wonder what happened there.  One of them, an asari, comes across Shepard's corpse.  She bends down, noticing the N7 tags.  She stares in disbelief.  "Hey guys, I think I just found..." her voice trails off--best not to make a big deal out of it right now.  Wistfully, she checks for a pulse.

If you chose CONTROL, Shepard is dead, and she sighs, picks up the dog tags, and stands up.  "Thanks, hero," she says with a warm smile, then goes back to looking for other survivors.

If you chose DESTROY, however, she pulls a hand away in shock.  Puts her ear to Shepard's mouth.  Jumps up.  "Guys!" she calls out.  "Give me some help over here!"

End game.

Edit: If BioWare didn't promise a good ending, would the reaction have been what it was?

I think everyone would still be upset, but at the very least they wouldn't be able to call Bioware liars.

what if BioWare said that although your decisions might not affect the ending of ME3 but it will affect the way the Post-Reaper galaxy looks in future games?

You don't nerf your current product in hopes that people will buy a future one.

What if BioWare said NOTHING about ME3 except in advertising?

With all the leaks?  It's not like they had to.  But still, I loved the dev tweets, and I appreciated the communication.  I still appreciate it.

Impressive AdmiralCheez, very impressive, nice inclusion of fleets and consequences of not enough assets (Imagine the music that plays when the normandy Goes down and Hackett dies in a blaze of glory), and about Control/Destroy, I'd pick control because the reapers can act like the guardians of the galaxy now that they are under Shepard's control.


But still I want your opinion on the Indoctrination Theory (Personally I think it's a load of ****e but still, it would be intersting to know your opinion)

[Fliprot]

Bump

Hail the Cheez.

[TabooTattoo]

Well said. You deliver a wonderfully touching message. I hope more people, especially the devs, do read this.

[ZiegenkonigIII]

Wonderful post

[ZeBlob987]

QFT.

One of my friends said it perfectly. He said whatever, its the ending (although he does acknowledge the plot holes now) to him, but that a part of me died.

Yes its sad. Yes its nerdy. But thats how good the Mass Effect games are. Props to BioWare for showing us how much ME means to us, even if it meant breaking our hearts