880 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Hold the line!

[TexasToast712]

Haven't seen Cheez for long time. *Hugs*

[fainmaca]

A very well thought out post, covering pretty much what most of us are feeling. Well said, sir!

Fainmaca Out.

[MrFob]

And there is the Admiral!
I wondered where you had gone but seriously, that was one hell of a return. You took the words right out o my brain (well probably even better because my brain would not have articulated these thoughts that well).

Thanks for that post cheez, and consider it signed by one more BioWare and Mass Effect fan.

And to BW, ball' in your court now guys. Make us proud!

[Sith_exar_kun]

Great words Cheez! I completely agree with you!!

[Tairram]

Well done. 100% agree

[Saeros]

Great post Admiral. I totally agree.

[pistolols]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And hot damn, was it a galaxy worth saving.

See this is everyone's problem right here.  No, it wasn't a galaxy worth saving.  That's been the whole point since ME1.  Galactic civilization is one big lie.  It shouldn't even exist in such a form, at least not yet.  The various species are simply not ready for it evolutionary speaking.  The rachni wars, krogan rebellion and resulting genophage, first contact war, extreme biological testing and experiments on all fronts, these types of things are examples of exactly why the reset button needed to be hit.  Why the path of the reapers needed to be destroyed, and the relays obliterated, so civilization can begin again and develop on it's own.

Modifié par pistolols, 28 mars 2012 - 01:20 .

[wicked_being]

Great post OP. I agree with you.

[garf]

agree, support, signed, whatever.

Hell yeah, Cheez, my story is differnt in details but not in sentiment.

Unfortunately I cannot share your faith in Bioware. I wish I could, I wanted to, but their silence and the BS from all those who hate Retake... It's not worth it with everything else on my plate. (RL has REAL problems that I would normally play games to relax from )

I have voted with my wallet already.

[Cyberarmy]

Meh, AdmiralCheez for president!

[AdmiralCheez]

Cyberarmy wrote...

Meh, AdmiralCheez for president!

Oh, the things I would legalize...

Also check this out:

“The critical mistake BioWare made was to confuse their fans’ investment in the characters with interest in the fate of the universe as a whole. The ending is supposed to be hopeful — the Reapers are no longer a threat, and organic life can flourish. But by attempting to wrap up the story arcs before the final battle, and then sketching out the conclusion with broad strokes in which everyone’s fate is left unresolved, they’ve betrayed a colossal misunderstanding of how the audience was engaged with the story. One of the most common complaints about the ending is that it makes the rest of the game feel “pointless.” With the Citadel and the mass relays destroyed, what difference does it make if the genophage is cured or if Rannoch is recovered? It feels pointless because, in the end, no one was really trying to save the galaxy; they were trying to save the people. Pulling the camera so far back that we can’t see anyone severs the emotional connection that the rest of the series built up. The implications of the three endings can make for interesting thought experiments — what does it mean to combine organic and synthetic life? — but they are just that: thought experiments. Abstract speculation about transhumanism is the ending to a story that was not being told.” 

On the problematic nature of the Mass Effect ending, by Cruise Elroy » The ending (via direct-intervention) 

[Janus Prospero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Also check this out:

“The critical mistake BioWare made was to confuse their fans’ investment in the characters with interest in the fate of the universe as a whole. The ending is supposed to be hopeful — the Reapers are no longer a threat, and organic life can flourish. But by attempting to wrap up the story arcs before the final battle, and then sketching out the conclusion with broad strokes in which everyone’s fate is left unresolved, they’ve betrayed a colossal misunderstanding of how the audience was engaged with the story. One of the most common complaints about the ending is that it makes the rest of the game feel “pointless.” With the Citadel and the mass relays destroyed, what difference does it make if the genophage is cured or if Rannoch is recovered? It feels pointless because, in the end, no one was really trying to save the galaxy; they were trying to save the people. Pulling the camera so far back that we can’t see anyone severs the emotional connection that the rest of the series built up. The implications of the three endings can make for interesting thought experiments — what does it mean to combine organic and synthetic life? — but they are just that: thought experiments. Abstract speculation about transhumanism is the ending to a story that was not being told.” 

Wow...that was on point!

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 28 mars 2012 - 04:47 .

[xenacrocker]

Very well done. I salute you!
I think the Bioware team was indoctrinated....too much time around reaper tech

[Azorgamer]

This still is one of the best explanations, of why the endings were bad, that I have come across. I really hope a lot of people at Bioware read this so that they can understand why many of us have issues with the ending.

Thanks again for writing such a great explanation.

[MartinPenwald]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Also check this out:

“The critical mistake BioWare made was to confuse their fans’ investment in the characters with interest in the fate of the universe as a whole. The ending is supposed to be hopeful — the Reapers are no longer a threat, and organic life can flourish. But by attempting to wrap up the story arcs before the final battle, and then sketching out the conclusion with broad strokes in which everyone’s fate is left unresolved, they’ve betrayed a colossal misunderstanding of how the audience was engaged with the story. One of the most common complaints about the ending is that it makes the rest of the game feel “pointless.” With the Citadel and the mass relays destroyed, what difference does it make if the genophage is cured or if Rannoch is recovered? It feels pointless because, in the end, no one was really trying to save the galaxy; they were trying to save the people. Pulling the camera so far back that we can’t see anyone severs the emotional connection that the rest of the series built up. The implications of the three endings can make for interesting thought experiments — what does it mean to combine organic and synthetic life? — but they are just that: thought experiments. Abstract speculation about transhumanism is the ending to a story that was not being told.” 

[color=rgb(68, 68, 68)">On the problematic nature of the Mass Effect ending, by ] (via [/color]direct-intervention) 

Agreed 100%.

And, you know, considering how much the fans talked about the characters on this forum, you would have thought that Bioware understood what we love about the game. But they didn't.

[merylisk]

Fantastic thread, excellent points!

A quote I read that sums it up well is that people don't care about events, they care about how those events affect characters. That, I think, is the root of the problem with the ending to Mass Effect.

I hope Bioware sees this thread!

[MustacheManatee]

This is so well written, I came back to read it a second time! Thanks again OP!

[Azarni]

My god, I can empathize with almost every single word of your post, OP. Thank you for taking the time and phrasing all that so perfectly, while my sour mood would not allow me to bother taking the time.

I really hope this gets seen.

[Sun and Snow]

Great Googly Moogly.

Fantastic post/thread, OP. Well done, indeed.

[txmn1016]

Nice read, Cheez. Especially liked the following bit:

"We can be massive jerks, but at the end of the day, we’re still Bioware fans because we believe in you. Make our time, money, and faith worth it. You’ve done it before (at least twice), so the only thing stopping you from doing it again is, well, you."

[Cyberarmy]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Cyberarmy wrote...

Meh, AdmiralCheez for president!

Oh, the things I would legalize...

Also check this out:

“The critical mistake BioWare made was to confuse their fans’ investment in the characters with interest in the fate of the universe as a whole. The ending is supposed to be hopeful — the Reapers are no longer a threat, and organic life can flourish. But by attempting to wrap up the story arcs before the final battle, and then sketching out the conclusion with broad strokes in which everyone’s fate is left unresolved, they’ve betrayed a colossal misunderstanding of how the audience was engaged with the story. One of the most common complaints about the ending is that it makes the rest of the game feel “pointless.” With the Citadel and the mass relays destroyed, what difference does it make if the genophage is cured or if Rannoch is recovered? It feels pointless because, in the end, no one was really trying to save the galaxy; they were trying to save the people. Pulling the camera so far back that we can’t see anyone severs the emotional connection that the rest of the series built up. The implications of the three endings can make for interesting thought experiments — what does it mean to combine organic and synthetic life? — but they are just that: thought experiments. Abstract speculation about transhumanism is the ending to a story that was not being told.” 

[color=rgb(68, 68, 68)">On the problematic nature of the Mass Effect ending, by ] (via [/color]direct-intervention) 

I united the Geth and Quarians after hundreds of years and then "EXTERMİNATE ALL THE GETH!":pinched:

BTW if you legalize "sandwich" you have my vote.

[SonvarTheMighty]

I agree with you OP well put

[Bojan1es]

You have managed to sum up what most people feel and have gone through. I also loved the ideas you had with regards to the ending and how to use the resources, makes alot of sense. But then again, maybe to much so, I'm now unable replay the game knowing what could have been..

I have picked up pritty much every release from BioWare, they are the kings of story telling, but this ending just makes me sad as it could have been so much more.

[akashacatbat]

pistolols wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And hot damn, was it a galaxy worth saving.

See this is everyone's problem right here.  No, it wasn't a galaxy worth saving.  That's been the whole point since ME1.  Galactic civilization is one big lie.  It shouldn't even exist in such a form, at least not yet.  The various species are simply not ready for it evolutionary speaking.  The rachni wars, krogan rebellion and resulting genophage, first contact war, extreme biological testing and experiments on all fronts, these types of things are examples of exactly why the reset button needed to be hit.  Why the path of the reapers needed to be destroyed, and the relays obliterated, so civilization can begin again and develop on it's own.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the worth saving part. But here's the thing: this little Star Child, or whatever it is, shouldn't get to decide our fate. We're not talking about a garden that has run amok, or even a population of deer/tribbles/whatever the ME equivalent of non self-aware animals happens to be.

A big theme in the whole EDI/Geth part of ME3 was free will, and what that means. It means that WE get to decide. The Star Child has no right to interfere, whatever its intentions are. Is it possible that we'll muck it up? Sure. Is it likely? I'll even give you that. But that doesn't really matter, because what this is really about, and what Shepard has been fighting for all this time, is the right to self determination.

And if it ever gets to that point, I would have no problem with the Star Child stepping in to preserve a couple of the more primitive species as it watches us destroy ourselves. Let "evolution" take care of itself. The second the Star Child steps in, however, it is no longer true evolution, but just the same as any problems it may have caused by leaving behind the technology of the Mass Relays, or the Salarians elevating the Krogans, or the Genophage (all problems the various races were well on their way to dealing with when the Star Child decided it had had enough). Evolution is natural and occurs on its own. The stories of the Mass Effect have shown time and again is that what causes problems is outside forces stepping in to hurry along the evolutionary process. That includes things that help (elevating the Krogans) as well as things that destroy (the genophage).

So I am sorry, pistolols, I don't agree with you and the Star Child. Is the galaxy a perfect place? Heck no. But that doesn't mean we have to go and destroy everything and start all over. Just the fact that the Star Child has done this multiple times has shown it is not an effective strategy.

Modifié par akashacatbat, 28 mars 2012 - 06:46 .