880 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

pistolols wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And hot damn, was it a galaxy worth saving.

See this is everyone's problem right here.  No, it wasn't a galaxy worth saving.  That's been the whole point since ME1.  Galactic civilization is one big lie.  It shouldn't even exist in such a form, at least not yet.  The various species are simply not ready for it evolutionary speaking.  The rachni wars, krogan rebellion and resulting genophage, first contact war, extreme biological testing and experiments on all fronts, these types of things are examples of exactly why the reset button needed to be hit.  Why the path of the reapers needed to be destroyed, and the relays obliterated, so civilization can begin again and develop on it's own.

You're missing the point. We're talking about why it's a fun IP to play, while you're going on about why it may or may not be a good idea to blow up relays. It was a fun universe to play a game in and imagine it was real. Nobody (slight hyperbole) was playing Mass Effect to reset the galactic civilizations, they were playing it to beat the Reapers and save Garrus or Tali or Wrex or whomever is their favorite squaddie's and their civilizations.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 28 mars 2012 - 06:55 .

[Taboo]

Almostfaceman wrote...

pistolols wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And hot damn, was it a galaxy worth saving.

See this is everyone's problem right here.  No, it wasn't a galaxy worth saving.  That's been the whole point since ME1.  Galactic civilization is one big lie.  It shouldn't even exist in such a form, at least not yet.  The various species are simply not ready for it evolutionary speaking.  The rachni wars, krogan rebellion and resulting genophage, first contact war, extreme biological testing and experiments on all fronts, these types of things are examples of exactly why the reset button needed to be hit.  Why the path of the reapers needed to be destroyed, and the relays obliterated, so civilization can begin again and develop on it's own.

You're missing the point. We're talking about why it's a fun IP to play, while you're going on about why it may or may not be a good idea to blow up relays. It was a fun universe to play a game in and imagine it was real. Nobody (slight hyperbole) was playing Mass Effect to reset the galactic civilizations, they were playing it to beat the Reapers and save Garrus or Tali or Wrex or whomever is their favorite squaddie's and their civilizations.

[legion999]

pistolols wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And hot damn, was it a galaxy worth saving.

See this is everyone's problem right here.  No, it wasn't a galaxy worth saving.  That's been the whole point since ME1.  Galactic civilization is one big lie.  It shouldn't even exist in such a form, at least not yet.  The various species are simply not ready for it evolutionary speaking.  The rachni wars, krogan rebellion and resulting genophage, first contact war, extreme biological testing and experiments on all fronts, these types of things are examples of exactly why the reset button needed to be hit.  Why the path of the reapers needed to be destroyed, and the relays obliterated, so civilization can begin again and develop on it's own.

Great idea. Let's reset the fact that I saved the Rachni, made the Krogans and Turians bros, made peace with the Geth and Quarians and haveunited the ENTIRE galaxy. Seriously what illogic is that?

Modifié par legion999, 28 mars 2012 - 07:05 .

[kegNeggs]

nice

[Rafe34]

legion999 wrote...

pistolols wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And hot damn, was it a galaxy worth saving.

See this is everyone's problem right here.  No, it wasn't a galaxy worth saving.  That's been the whole point since ME1.  Galactic civilization is one big lie.  It shouldn't even exist in such a form, at least not yet.  The various species are simply not ready for it evolutionary speaking.  The rachni wars, krogan rebellion and resulting genophage, first contact war, extreme biological testing and experiments on all fronts, these types of things are examples of exactly why the reset button needed to be hit.  Why the path of the reapers needed to be destroyed, and the relays obliterated, so civilization can begin again and develop on it's own.

Great idea. Let's reset the fact that I saved the Rachni, made the Krogans and Turians bros, made peace with the Geth and Quarians and haveunited the ENTIRE galaxy. Seriously what illogic is that?

Exactly. This is one of the more ridiculous arguments coming out of the 5 people on here who make up the pro-ending camp.

@OP: Very well said. Could not have put it better myself, with slight changes since I'm not a gal.

[x-Killision-X]

well said OP

[Kulthar Drax]

Good post, OP. Hope you stick around

[Rafe34]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Pyrothol wrote...

We were told Saren was loyal.  We proved them wrong.

We were told that the Reapers were a myth.  We proved them wrong.

We were told the collector mission was a one way trip.  We proved them wrong

We were told it would be impossible unite the galaxy.  We proved them wrong.

Sheppard has made a career of proving everyone wrong.  Why not here as well?

Because this isn't a disney movie. I'm glad only around 95% of the game was disney.

This is some incredibly stupid logic.

So only Disney movies can ever have a semi-happy ending? Because real life is always grimdark and ends horribly.

I mean, come on, Anderson would be dead, Mordin sacrificed himself, Legion sacrificed himself.

The Dragon Age Origins campaign where your Warden sacrificed themselves is hardly disney movie.

All we want is the OPTION to have it end somewhat happy. 

If you would rather it end sad, then you can have that OPTION, too. Do you just want everyone to have a grimdark ending because that's "edgy" and "realistic?" This is a video game. Mass Effect has always been about overcoming impossible ends if you prepare well enough. In 3, you lose a few crewmembers along the way, and millions of people have been killed by the Reapers, but if you take out the Reapers without destroying the galaxy it's a "Disney movie?"

Sense. Your reply makes none.

[Bob3terd]

wow proud to hold the line with you brother.

[Segameister]

RiouHotaru wrote...

While I completely understand your "There was no chance to challenge the Reapers face to face and prove to them that they were wrong, that we were stronger than they thought, that we were worth more than they gave us credit for." part, there's one HUGE problem with this.

The game pounds it into your head over and over and OVER again:

The Reapers CANNOT in any circumstance be defeated via conventional warfare. Standard rules of engagement and strategies do NOT apply.

How do you "prove you were stronger", when the means to do that won't work?

Really? You didn't notice the thresher maw destroying one on Tchunka?  Or the Quarian fleet destroying on Raddock?  Or Sovereign being destroyed in ME1?  It takes a lot of bullets to take one down, sure.  Solution: Use even more bullets, or build a bigger gun!  Crucible was supposed to be this bigger gun, not some fairy tale platform for casper.

Excellent words Leigh, thank you for expressing it better than I can.  I hope they will fix it.

[Segameister]

AxisEvolve wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
But that’s just my opinion.

Great post, Cheez. I know that Bioware is busy, but I hope they take the time to read this one. 

Hey, if Bioware can take the time to regulate / lock posts and push users for swearing, they can ALL darn well read this forumn!

[MrAtomica]

Rafe34 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Pyrothol wrote...

We were told Saren was loyal.  We proved them wrong.

We were told that the Reapers were a myth.  We proved them wrong.

We were told the collector mission was a one way trip.  We proved them wrong

We were told it would be impossible unite the galaxy.  We proved them wrong.

Sheppard has made a career of proving everyone wrong.  Why not here as well?

Because this isn't a disney movie. I'm glad only around 95% of the game was disney.

This is some incredibly stupid logic.

So only Disney movies can ever have a semi-happy ending? Because real life is always grimdark and ends horribly.

I mean, come on, Anderson would be dead, Mordin sacrificed himself, Legion sacrificed himself.

The Dragon Age Origins campaign where your Warden sacrificed themselves is hardly disney movie.

All we want is the OPTION to have it end somewhat happy. 

If you would rather it end sad, then you can have that OPTION, too. Do you just want everyone to have a grimdark ending because that's "edgy" and "realistic?" This is a video game. Mass Effect has always been about overcoming impossible ends if you prepare well enough. In 3, you lose a few crewmembers along the way, and millions of people have been killed by the Reapers, but if you take out the Reapers without destroying the galaxy it's a "Disney movie?"

Sense. Your reply makes none.

"Disney" would imply that, at most, one person had died in the entire game. As far as I know, anywhere from millions to billions died. And significantly more if you count those from Mass Effect 1 and 2 as well.

[MrAtomica]

To everyone saying that the Reapers cannot be beaten conventionally:

You may be right. So instead of using the Crucible to FUBAR civilization, we use it to blast the kinetic barriers off the Reaper armada (makes more sense than Synthesis, at least). They are now easily engaged and destroyed. Problem solved. Time to get loud and spill some drinks.

[uDoh]

i could not have written it better myself. I know, I for one feel the same way, I am still struggling with my 2nd playthrough on ME3 (not got very far at all).

[YNation913]

Uh... can someone please explain the logistics of an experience you have in the present altering an experience you had in the past? Your experience with Mass Effect in the past HAS ALREADY HAPPENED; that is to say, nothing in the past can be altered. Your perception of the overall series may change as a result of your present experience, but I can't see why it would; your past experiences have been, and always will be, positive.

Modifié par YNation913, 28 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[DarkWyccan]

Posting just to show my support for this thread. Very well written and great followup by AdmiralCheez. I hope this thread doesn't get overlooked.

[Chronor]

@pistolols

Wasn't it Garrus (or some other Turian) who said something to the effect of "I'm watching 15,000 years of civilization burn..."? Take a step back, and think about that for a moment. In our reality, do we humans have 15k years of recorded history and civilization to really reflect upon?

When I look at things from the above context, I have to strongly disagree with your assertion that "the (ME) galaxy" is not worth saving. That's one of the things that made this series of games so immersive and compelling. These rich civilizations have come so far, with or without the help of Reaper technology, that one would have to have absolutely no compassion or empathy to even think like that.

Not trying to bash Americans (seeing as how I'm one of them circa Asia), but perhaps some growing up in younger countries like the US may not have as much a connection or concern about the past. When I look at the cultural development and the rich history of European and Asian countries, I'm in awe at the richness of it all. To me, that's worth saving, not just for myself, but for everyone else in our little pip squeak of a planet called Earth.

[rgretret]

I tottaly agree with you. Mass Effect is the best series ever created!

[Welsh Inferno]

Chronor wrote...

@pistolols

Wasn't it Garrus (or some other Turian) who said something to the effect of "I'm watching 15,000 years of civilization burn..."?

I think that was actually Victus. Just FYI.

[MickHam]

AdmiralCheez you have my keyboard (just dont break it!).

[Blodsven]

YNation913 wrote...

Uh... can someone please explain the logistics of an experience you have in the present altering an experience you had in the past? Your experience with Mass Effect in the past HAS ALREADY HAPPENED; that is to say, nothing in the past can be altered. Your perception of the overall series may change as a result of your present experience, but I can't see why it would; your past experiences have been, and always will be, positive.

Your past actions define the universe, while future actions can either reinforce or diminish that universe.

In other words, through playing ME1 and ME2 (and parts of ME3) I pictured Shepard as logical and level-headed. The ME3 end scene bashed that picture to pieces thanks to the utterly illogical explanation from the Starchild/Cataclysm... followed by an even stranger silence from Shepard. The fact that Shepard refuses to challenge the Cataclysm's explanation of unicorns, magic and rainbows, makes the Shepard I have known since ME1 to a lobotomized drooling idiot.

[someone else]

YNation913 wrote...

Uh... can someone please explain the logistics of an experience you have in the present altering an experience you had in the past? Your experience with Mass Effect in the past HAS ALREADY HAPPENED; that is to say, nothing in the past can be altered. Your perception of the overall series may change as a result of your present experience, but I can't see why it would; your past experiences have been, and always will be, positive.

because your subjective perception of the past exists only and exclusively - like everything else you experience - in the present.

/ah so grasshopper

[Lil One]

@OP

Well put. Have a cookie!

[Chronor]

@ Welsh Inferno

Thank you for the clarification.

@YNation913

Technically, you have a valid point. However, as you yourself noted, the present perception can color (intended) your past perception. Thing to note, my personal experience of the series always filled me with hope, hope for a better way, hope for a better tomorrow. As cliche'd as that might sound, that's what I got out of ME1 and ME2. Now that ME3's ending show how, um, hopeless it all was, why bother when nothing your Shepard did matter? Surely you can see how that can tarnish your past experiences.

[RedDuke2011]

Well said OP.