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[Darth Evil]

Got my support!

[bpzrn]

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Everyone in BioWare should read this.

Unfotunatly they have read and heard and seen information like this and even better said, they dont care we got what we got and they will clairify thier artistic view later this summer.

Joy........



Ending was awful, explain it all you want its not going to change how bad it is

Modifié par bpzrn, 16 avril 2012 - 05:22 .

[ArchDuck]

Nicely said.

[sw04ca]

Misformac wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

While I completely understand your "There was no chance to challenge the Reapers face to face and prove to them that they were wrong, that we were stronger than they thought, that we were worth more than they gave us credit for." part, there's one HUGE problem with this.

The game pounds it into your head over and over and OVER again:

The Reapers CANNOT in any circumstance be defeated via conventional warfare. Standard rules of engagement and strategies do NOT apply.

How do you "prove you were stronger", when the means to do that won't work?

First time posting here, but have been lurking on these forums for some time (after reading so much, you can only stay quiet for so long). I just want to say that weren't we continuously told in previous situations that we couldn't accomplish something? That we were facing impossible odds?

You CAN'T go to Ilos, Shepard! Done. You CAN'T survive the Omega 4 Relay, Shepard! Done. You CAN'T defeat the Reapers, Shepard! There should've been that option to prove everyone wrong, especially when that theme has been repeated in previous scenerios. Just my two cents.

AdmiralCheez, your post is exactly how I've felt about this whole fiasco. Well done. 

Shepard achieves the impossible, but he doesn't do it through conventional means.

When he finds Ilos, he doesn't just go hunting around for the relay.  He goes on a long, involved quest involving a Prothean beacon, the Thorian and a Rachni Queen.

He survives the Omega 4 relay not just by building a superteam and fighting his way through the Collectors, but by using a unique piece of Reapertech.

Shepard never does it the conventional way, and to have him simply throw all life in the galaxy out the window so that he can have a satisfying, albeit suicidal firefight with the Reapers would completely abandon a fundamental key of every Shepard's character:  He's no fool.  If the far more militarized and advanced Protheans couldn't defeat the Reapers, why would he think that a galaxy full of races who (for the most part) have been strictly limiting their armaments ever since the Treaty of Farixen?

[Kunari801]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

... I’d also like to thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for the Mass Effect franchise.  I kid you not, these games are the greatest pieces of entertainment I’ve ever had the pleasure of experiencing...  

... Right at the character creation screen, I was given the option to fashion my very own hero, and she wouldn’t be the personality-less doll that most RPGs offered.  No, Shepard was a hero in her own right, but just as much, she was a little piece of me....  

...I loved my crew.  They managed to trick me into treating them like real people while I was playing.  They made me care about them, and I felt really, really good when I was able to help them with their problems and make things better.  
… Until the last five minutes. 

Wow, great post!  I think many of us have a similar connection to our Shepard's and crew and a deep love of the Mass Effect universe.  

[Kunari801]

sw04ca wrote...

... Shepard never does it the conventional way, and to have him simply throw all life in the galaxy out the window so that he can have a satisfying, albeit suicidal firefight with the Reapers would completely abandon a fundamental key of every Shepard's character:  He's no fool.  If the far more militarized and advanced Protheans couldn't defeat the Reapers, why would he think that a galaxy full of races who (for the most part) have been strictly limiting their armaments ever since the Treaty of Farixen?

Did you forget what Vigil said in ME1?  The Reapers tactic is to first hit the Citadel --by commanding the Keepers to turn on the Citadel's mass relay-- and cut off the galactic government and shut down all the Mass Relays, thus stranding each planet/cluster to themselves.  Then systematically picking off each race/planet/cluster until they are done, taking hundres of years.  The last Protheans from Ilum gave us a chance by changing the Keepers so they no longer followed Sovereign's commands and finished the conduit.  Thus the Citadel wasn't the initial site of the invasion --minus final the battle in ME1-- and saving galactic government and the mass relays for our use reinforcements.

Fighting the Reapers "conventionally" may not be an option but that does NOT excuse the nonsensical dues ex machina ending we got!  There have been more than one example of better endings in these forums but the DLC will not change the endings.   I just hope they can make the ending more sensical and make it feel less dues ex machina. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 16 avril 2012 - 06:09 .

[SovereignWillReturn]

Misformac wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

While I completely understand your "There was no chance to challenge the Reapers face to face and prove to them that they were wrong, that we were stronger than they thought, that we were worth more than they gave us credit for." part, there's one HUGE problem with this.

The game pounds it into your head over and over and OVER again:

The Reapers CANNOT in any circumstance be defeated via conventional warfare. Standard rules of engagement and strategies do NOT apply.

How do you "prove you were stronger", when the means to do that won't work?

First time posting here, but have been lurking on these forums for some time (after reading so much, you can only stay quiet for so long). I just want to say that weren't we continuously told in previous situations that we couldn't accomplish something? That we were facing impossible odds?

You CAN'T go to Ilos, Shepard! Done. You CAN'T survive the Omega 4 Relay, Shepard! Done. You CAN'T defeat the Reapers, Shepard! There should've been that option to prove everyone wrong, especially when that theme has been repeated in previous scenerios. Just my two cents.

AdmiralCheez, your post is exactly how I've felt about this whole fiasco. Well done. 

This. THe abvoe quote is my statement exactly.

[pencilboom]

well said OP

[Ownedbacon]

Excellent post AdmiralCheez it says it all

[sw04ca]

Kunari801 wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

... Shepard never does it the conventional way, and to have him simply throw all life in the galaxy out the window so that he can have a satisfying, albeit suicidal firefight with the Reapers would completely abandon a fundamental key of every Shepard's character:  He's no fool.  If the far more militarized and advanced Protheans couldn't defeat the Reapers, why would he think that a galaxy full of races who (for the most part) have been strictly limiting their armaments ever since the Treaty of Farixen?

Did you forget what Vigil said in ME1?  The Reapers tactic is to first hit the Citadel --by commanding the Keepers to turn on the Citadel's mass relay-- and cut off the galactic government and shut down all the Mass Relays, thus stranding each planet/cluster to themselves.  Then systematically picking off each race/planet/cluster until they are done, taking hundres of years.  The last Protheans from Ilum gave us a chance by changing the Keepers so they no longer followed Sovereign's commands and finished the conduit.  Thus the Citadel wasn't the initial site of the invasion --minus final the battle in ME1-- and saving galactic government and the mass relays for our use reinforcements.

Fighting the Reapers "conventionally" may not be an option but that does NOT excuse the nonsensical dues ex machina ending we got!  There have been more than one example of better endings in these forums but the DLC will not change the endings.   I just hope they can make the ending more sensical and make it feel less dues ex machina. 

I took that into account.  The Protheans would still be, on the whole, much stronger.  Moreover, the Reapers have still managed to divide and conquer to some degree.  The batarians were completely eliminated early on, and the turians spent most of their strength fighting at Palaven.  Large swathes of the Alliance fleet were also destroyed in the early stages of the war.  The quarians and geth have done a great deal of damage to each other.  There's no reason to suspect that the rag-tag remenents of the fleets can withstand the Reapers.

Did you honestly expect anything but a deus ex machina ending?  The Reapers were such a powerful, substantial threat that I felt that the only way that they could be beat would be something like the Catalyst.  The same thing that made the Reapers amazing villains also made them a difficult problem to solve without something out of left field.

[Kunari801]

sw04ca wrote...

...There's no reason to suspect that the rag-tag remenents of the fleets can withstand the Reapers.

Did you honestly expect anything but a deus ex machina ending?  The Reapers were such a powerful, substantial threat that I felt that the only way that they could be beat would be something like the Catalyst.  The same thing that made the Reapers amazing villains also made them a difficult problem to solve without something out of left field.

The crucible alone was already enough of a dues ex machina we didn't need a illogical star-brat thrown in at the end.  There is a youtube ending that cuts out Star-brat completely, IIRC it uses the Destroy cinematic after Anderson bleeds out and it works perfectly.  

The only reason to have Star-brat was to introduce a morale dilemma ending and try and explain the Reapers.  We didn't need either.   What we end up with is a "Pick your War Crime" ending that is out-of-characters for many of our Shepard's not even my renegade Shepard would be accepting of those choices. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 27 avril 2012 - 03:49 .

[EthanDirtch]

Great post. I thought it was a well crafted written explanation for how some--if not most--of us felt regarding the series as a whole and how that plays into how we felt regarding how the series ended. I'm sure they're read this (or other similarly constructed content) here and elsewhere, but it never hurts to be reminded of how we feel every now and again

[HolyAvenger]

Well said Cheez.

[I am Sovereign]

We told Bioware we wanted new and different endings, their response: "Are we going to change the endings? No."

Nice developer - fanbase "dialogue" there.

[TurambarEA]

Cheez, you said a lot of what I've been thinking and feeling the last couple of months. Kudos for taking the time to write it all.

[Grissmin]

I am Sovereign wrote...

We told Bioware we wanted new and different endings, their response: "Are we going to change the endings? No."

Nice developer - fanbase "dialogue" there.

My response: "Am I going to give Bioware my money? No."

Modifié par Grissmin, 27 avril 2012 - 05:15 .

[Severyx]

Well put, Cheez. Whether I agree with the popular opinion of the ending or not is irrelevant - BioWare has crafted an amazing work here. It should not go down like this, all this confusion. I'm eagerly waiting for the EC DLC, hoping that it will fill some voids left by the current setup.

But hot dang, was the 99.9% before that an awesome ride.

[soldo9149]

nice rant sir

[EnvyTB075]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
I’m honored to have been part of the developer-fanbase dialogue; no other corporation, at least in my experience, has ever been so welcoming and attentive towards its customers.

Bohemia Interactive *insertmanyderogatorywordshere* all over Biowares "fan base communication".

RiouHotaru wrote...

While I completely understand your
"There was no chance to challenge the Reapers face to face and prove to
them that they were wrong, that we were stronger than they thought, that
we were worth more than they gave us credit for." part, there's one
HUGE problem with this.

The game pounds it into your head over and over and OVER again:

The
Reapers CANNOT in any circumstance be defeated via conventional
warfare. Standard rules of engagement and strategies do NOT apply.

How do you "prove you were stronger", when the means to do that won't work?

Thats because BW needed to legitimise the Crucible. What better way to make a DEM seem appropriate than to tell the player, without evidence, that its impossible otherwise, even though you don't know what the crucible does?

This whole "cant be beaten conventionally" thing only started after going to Mars.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 28 avril 2012 - 03:40 .

[YachiruChin]

Ditto!!

[CaptainCalico]

Thank you for taking the time to craft this critique. It echos my own feelings so well!

[ElitePinecone]

This is fantastic, Admiral.

[Storin]

Very well put. You capture most of my thoughts better than I could have articulated them here.

[Sir Hecubus]

RiouHotaru wrote...

While I completely understand your "There was no chance to challenge the Reapers face to face and prove to them that they were wrong, that we were stronger than they thought, that we were worth more than they gave us credit for." part, there's one HUGE problem with this.

The game pounds it into your head over and over and OVER again:

The Reapers CANNOT in any circumstance be defeated via conventional warfare. Standard rules of engagement and strategies do NOT apply.

How do you "prove you were stronger", when the means to do that won't work?

maybe this is why just shut the game off now, because there just isn't any possible way to win so why bother trying?