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Did Liara rape Shepard?


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#1
jameshawking

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Well, at the end end, her last conversation she does something, frankly, that is "embracing eternity" as far as we know.  Her eyes go black, they rush off into the horizon, etc etc.

Considering the fact that Asari reproduction is something mental and emotional, as opposed to sex, which is physical and fun, did Liara just, essentially, rape Shepard, regardless of who your love interest is?

Poll here

Modifié par jameshawking, 27 mars 2012 - 03:10 .


#2
TJX2045

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No. If you're talking about the final push on Earth, (which is kind of a spoiler btw), Asari have a way of sharing memories with friends that isn't similar to bonding with a significant other.

From what I hear, that section plays out completely different if you romanced her.

Modifié par TJX2045, 26 mars 2012 - 10:39 .


#3
TheSixthghoul

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Yes, many times. Three times in front of the crew in fact.

#4
Karimloo

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Shepard cried and cried. The rest of the crew just ****in watched.

#5
jameshawking

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TJX2045 wrote...

No. If you're talking about the final push on Earth, (which is kind of a spoiler btw), Asari have a way of sharing memories with friends that isn't similar to bonding with a significant other.

From what I hear, that section plays out completely different if you romanced her.

But Asari don't reproduce through having physical sex, like most races do.  they reproduce mentally, through a mental and emotional connection with their partner, hence how "dads" can be of any race or species.

#6
Skullheart

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That's for ME4, protagonized by Shep and Liara daugther.

It' doesn't matter who you LI is, Liara will always have a Shepard's child.

#7
jameshawking

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Skullheart wrote...

That's for ME4, protagonized by Shep and Liara daugther.

It' doesn't matter who you LI is, Liara will always have a Shepard's child.

I'm thinking that, seriously.

And with it being an asari, it can happen several hundred years in the future but still be directly connected to Shepard and the Reaper War

#8
Chrillze

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Liara: Don't ye worry I be a doctor! HAHAHA
Shepard: Nooooooooooo!!!

#9
jameshawking

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Seriously though...

Even if you don't call it "rape", at the very least it's a massive violation of him and his trust/

"oh, it's a gift" and entirely ignoring the fact that she's getting his kid.

#10
Chrillze

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If you have a romance with her they talk about having blue kids. If you don't have a romance with her...

#11
HopHazzard

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jameshawking wrote...

Seriously though...

Even if you don't call it "rape", at the very least it's a massive violation of him and his trust/

"oh, it's a gift" and entirely ignoring the fact that she's getting his kid.


Why are you assuming she's lying? She's mind melded with Shepard before and not gotten pregnant. Even if you don't romance her, she regards Shepard as a close friend. What is it about Liara that makes you think she would violate the trust of some one she cares about in such a way?

#12
jameshawking

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HopHazzard wrote...

jameshawking wrote...

Seriously though...

Even if you don't call it "rape", at the very least it's a massive violation of him and his trust/

"oh, it's a gift" and entirely ignoring the fact that she's getting his kid.


Why are you assuming she's lying? She's mind melded with Shepard before and not gotten pregnant. Even if you don't romance her, she regards Shepard as a close friend. What is it about Liara that makes you think she would violate the trust of some one she cares about in such a way?

<<

Keep in mind you're assuming the Shadow Broker has clean morales.

I'm not saying "omg that totally effing happened", but I'm asking whether or not it could have happened, and what other people think might have happened with that scene, given what we know about how Asari actually reproduce and Morinth

#13
Golden Owl

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Skullheart wrote...

That's for ME4, protagonized by Shep and Liara daugther.

It' doesn't matter who you LI is, Liara will always have a Shepard's child.

Oh, I would be so p*ssed...I know your joking, but sadly I actually wouldn't put that past BW to pull a stunt like that.

#14
Aurora313

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HopHazzard wrote...

jameshawking wrote...

Seriously though...

Even if you don't call it "rape", at the very least it's a massive violation of him and his trust/

"oh, it's a gift" and entirely ignoring the fact that she's getting his kid.


Why are you assuming she's lying? She's mind melded with Shepard before and not gotten pregnant. Even if you don't romance her, she regards Shepard as a close friend. What is it about Liara that makes you think she would violate the trust of some one she cares about in such a way?


Why not, she did it three effing times in the first game. Headcanon wise, she dug up a **** load of memories my Shepard wanted to keep buried and turned him into an unsocible ****** for a good part of the game.

If Liara had Shepard's kid, then my SHepard will find a way back to the living world and kill them both. He doesn't hate Asari, or her in particular, but he doesn't want anything to do with them beyond what his mission calls for. Having his genetic offspring will send him off the deep end, especially since he wanted a future with Ashley.

Modifié par Aurora313, 26 mars 2012 - 11:10 .


#15
fle6isnow

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Not rape because Shepard consented to it. You do have the choice to reject the gift. And in ME1 too, every time you mind meld, you have to accept it.

But I like to headcannon that Liara DID give Shep a baby, even if her LI was Garrus. My Shep would be ok with this.

Modifié par fle6isnow, 26 mars 2012 - 11:13 .


#16
Aurora313

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You can even shout at her 'No one's messing with my head anymore, I'm effing sick of it!' or something to that extreme, but no the game says you have to, so Shepard doesn't get a choice in the matter. All he can do is b!tch weakly about it.

#17
HopHazzard

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Aurora313 wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

jameshawking wrote...

Seriously though...

Even if you don't call it "rape", at the very least it's a massive violation of him and his trust/

"oh, it's a gift" and entirely ignoring the fact that she's getting his kid.


Why are you assuming she's lying? She's mind melded with Shepard before and not gotten pregnant. Even if you don't romance her, she regards Shepard as a close friend. What is it about Liara that makes you think she would violate the trust of some one she cares about in such a way?


Why not, she did it three effing times in the first game. Headcanon wise, she dug up a **** load of memories my Shepard wanted to keep buried and turned him into an unsocible ****** for a good part of the game.

If Liara had Shepard's kid, then my SHepard will find a way back to the living world and kill them both. He doesn't hate Asari, or her in particular, but he doesn't want anything to do with them beyond what his mission calls for. Having his genetic offspring will send him off the deep end, especially since he wanted a future with Ashley.


But each of those times, Shepard let her do it, and she didn't end up pregnant. Why would this time be any different?

#18
Eyeshield21

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anyone get the feeling this thread is gonna get locked? I mean, I get the topic, but still....

Modifié par Eyeshield21, 26 mars 2012 - 11:14 .


#19
HopHazzard

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jameshawking wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

jameshawking wrote...

Seriously though...

Even if you don't call it "rape", at the very least it's a massive violation of him and his trust/

"oh, it's a gift" and entirely ignoring the fact that she's getting his kid.


Why are you assuming she's lying? She's mind melded with Shepard before and not gotten pregnant. Even if you don't romance her, she regards Shepard as a close friend. What is it about Liara that makes you think she would violate the trust of some one she cares about in such a way?

<<

Keep in mind you're assuming the Shadow Broker has clean morales.

I'm not saying "omg that totally effing happened", but I'm asking whether or not it could have happened, and what other people think might have happened with that scene, given what we know about how Asari actually reproduce and Morinth


Whether it could have happened or not depends entirely on your interpretation of LIara's character. Personally, I don't think that's something she would do without asking. Especially to a Shepard who didn't romance her.

#20
MACharlie1

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Kind of disappointed she didn't say "Embrace eternity". Does anyone say it?

#21
HopHazzard

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MACharlie1 wrote...

Kind of disappointed she didn't say "Embrace eternity". Does anyone say it?


I have to confess, I was disappointed she didn't say it too.

#22
jameshawking

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About the "he said it was okay" thing:

Shepard is, frankly, just about entirely ignorant of the actual process through which Asari reproduce, especially provided if he doesn't romance Laira beforehand (pillow talk might be illuminating). All he knows is that it's somethnig mental that they do.

The way she described it was as "a gift" between two people, not "us having a kid". In a court of law, if a person can't or doesn't understand the reprecussions of it, even if they say yes to it, such as when they're mentally handicappd or high/drunk/drugged, it counts as rape, legally.

a 16 year old may very well know what sex is, but they're not expected to be able to handle the possible results and importance of it, mentally or emotionally. Hence statutory.

#23
HopHazzard

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Even if Shepard doesn't romance Liara, she's quite eager to explain to him how asari reproduction works in ME1. Shepard knows enough to know that mind melding with an asari has a chance of netting him/her a baby. Rape is about forced sexual contact, not about babies. Shepard consented to the contact. And again, you seem to be operating under the assumption that Liara is dishonest and untrustworthy enough to trick her friend into getting her pregnant. Do you think it's in her character to do that?

#24
jameshawking

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HopHazzard wrote...

Even if Shepard doesn't romance Liara, she's quite eager to explain to him how asari reproduction works in ME1. Shepard knows enough to know that mind melding with an asari has a chance of netting him/her a baby. Rape is about forced sexual contact, not about babies. Shepard consented to the contact. And again, you seem to be operating under the assumption that Liara is dishonest and untrustworthy enough to trick her friend into getting her pregnant. Do you think it's in her character to do that?

as I said above:

You're acting as if the Shadow Broker has a clean morality.

She threatens to slay people with her mind, has no second thoughts about killing people both in person and through others, and was for a long period of time emotionally unstable <<


So, yes.  If she has what she sees as a good reason for her actions (for example; making sure Shepard's legacy lives on in case he dies) I can see her doing something like that.

Hell, this is a woman who very likely killed her own mother.

#25
HopHazzard

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I really don't see killing your mother in self defense as a great moral failing. And I don't recall any emotional instability. Was that in one of the comics I never read? Also, being willing to kill people doesn't necessarily equate to betraying your friends. Everyone has standards. I just don't see it as something she'd do. I think if she wanted to have Shepard's baby, she'd ask.