265 réponses à ce sujet

[K1llm1n1on]

Geneaux486 wrote...

I liked the ending because the sacrifice involved in achieving it fully acknolweged the strength of the larger-than-life enemy we were fighting, you got to say goodbye to all the important characters one by one beforehand, your hero is forced to swallow his pride and cooperate with a supposed enemy in order to save the galaxy, and the theme of evolution presents itself once and for all on a galactic scale.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I said before that it stands to reason that the price to pay for victory in such an epic conflict would be high. Also, based on our experiences dealing with most situations in the game, it's not too much to believe that the choices you get to make are complex and never perfect or particularly positive.

[K1llm1n1on]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I felt similarly - but some people just can't accept it when other people enjoy the endings and don't get OCD about the plot holes/inconsistencies (I am aware of them and DO want some exposition, yet it did not take away from my overall enjoyment). It seems as if they won't be happy unless they insult others, condemn them and make sure that they're as miserable as they are. If I were you, I'd just write off those people who act like jerks and ignore them.

Editing-wise, you might want to go in and remove the paragraph returns that sometimes get inserted when you copy & paste from a word processor. It will make your post neater and condense it a bit.

Hey, good tip on the formatting of the post. I actually didn't really look at it after I copied and pasted it from Word (mac). Maybe I'll spiff it up a bit if I get the chance. Thanks!:innocent:

[mbr.to]

the ending is masterfully done like the rest of the game
it leaves a deep emotional impact

[K1llm1n1on]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...

Durontan wrote...

Sirakou wrote...

Durontan wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...

demin8891 wrote...

Summary for those who don't want to read this massive wall of text: Artistic integrity.

I'm glad you liked it, OP. I really am. I'm just incapable of accepting mediocrity and plot holes the size of the Collector Base.

What specifically are your referring to when you say mediocrity? What plot holes do you see?

So you want to see plot holes?

Okey. So as that final conversation starts the Super wonder God child says he controls the reapers. His exact words are CONTROLS them, and now all of a sudden Shepard is given 3 choices and can't even make a case about some other 4th choice of co-existance. But fine, I can accept that they forgot to explain that the kid is only an AI and not a God-child that really controls them.

Okey, so my Shepard decides on one of the three colors... oh wait 3 totally different endings where he/she sacrifices himself/herself. In all three endings Mass relays explode. Okey, awesome! Mass relay explosion has been said throughout the series (Arrival best example) of what happens when Mass relays explode. SUPERNOVA! **** yea! Shepard just became biggest mass murderer and butcher of the galaxy, bigger then Reapers in this cycle. Fine, fine, I can accept that this is not the same explosion and it didn't go Supernova, again they forgot to explain that (hence the MEDIOCRITY of the ending).

But what I LOVED the most was seeing Normandy and Joker running through mass relay and when it crashed OH LOOK! My LI who was on a suicide run with me on Earth is all of a sudden there on the planet with Joker and EDI is hugging him... wait WHAT! Joker was with the fleet fighting the reapers! My squad was on Earth fighting to get to Citadel. Yes... hmmm... Oh to hell with it, this one I can't explain, MAJOR PLOT HOLE!

Half-sarcasm off. I am really tired of explaining people all the plot holes that endings have.

StarChild/GodChild whatever was already stated in last post.
Three different endings having a very similar outcome? Because we all know that similarity and plothole are the same thing.
Normandy "running" away from blast? Minor plothole at best, nowhere near HUGE. As for crew that I supposedly took with me? Assumed they got evacuated rather than ran for the beacon.

Minor bugs you say? Fine. Get them explained. On no LOGICAL way can you explain Normandy escape with MY entire squad that was on Earth. Even worse is the NEED to explain it. That is mediocrity in itself. Why are players who through entire game do not need to accept anything for granted all of a sudden need to fill in that it ain't a supernova, that my squad got evacuated, that Normandy escaped.
And yes, I actually am one of the people who understood that the kid is just an AI that can do only one of those 3 things. Point is again mediocrity of it, as it was so badly written and terribly explained that it looks like I am placed at Godchild who is omnipotent and tells me choose one of this 3 as I can't be bothered to tell you anything else.

I myself am fine with the 3 choices, don't care that Shepard has to die, but please, I can't accept their "bittersweet" ending of Normandy escape as it is obvious ploy, we will sacrifice Shepard and we will give players a show how their crew survived... only problem is that they didn't show HOW they survived but that they did. Retarded.

I need closure, I can accept endings (even do I find them lacking). Better ending would be IMO that after Anderson's death Shepard turn on the catalist and dies. Simpler, doesn't go into bigger deeper meaning (which failed in all directions) and I'd still have closure. I died, but did it, saved the galaxy. This endings with destruction of mass relays is off the charts retarded, with both supernovas and destroying entire mass effect universe as a whole.

First off, the Crucible destroys the mass relays while containing their destruction, to preserve the systems nearby, so the whole universe isn't destroyed.

Speculation.

Secondly, what you're saying is that you prefer if the game would have ended without the deeper concepts esplored byt the scenes with the "star child," which basically comes across as you wanted the ending to show victory but weren't interested in understanding what that victory meant.

Assuming the kid actually brings in any 'deeper concepts'. It does not. 

A lot of what you are saying is completely subjective. You don't like the ending because you don't like it.
I'm not criticizing you for that, mind you- you don't have to like it.

Everyone here knows why they hate the endings, it's just that most people aren't going to spend too much time detailing why when there are plenty of other sources. You mayhaps should have looked at a few of them. 

In saying that, there are a lot of things that aren't quite subjective. Plot holes, for example, Shepard not arguing the Casper's faulty logic being another. Sythesis being a pet peeve of mine, basically the most morally abhorent thing I've heard out of this game presented to the player as a choice. 

Saying there's a final stage, or peak of evolution is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. 

Plot holes certainly are subjective in this case. You assert that people are making assumptions to explain the plot in a way that makes sense, but by the same token you are inferring certain information, or perhaps more accurately, inferring a lack of thought on part of the creators, in order to call them plotholes.

Beyond that, it is also subjective (a matter of opinion) to assert that plot holes are signigicant to our take on the ending.

Another thing about the topic of plot holes: what is more likely, that those who have been able to find an acceptable reading of the game that fits the lore and plot are inferring this logic completely arbitrarily because the creators of the game forgot all of this or threw it all out the window, or that BW, well versed in the story and world they created, figured those playing the games would connect the dots? Occam's Razor.

Mind you, I did mention in another post in this thread that that storytelling approach is quite different than it's handled in the rest of the series in that they usually are very explicit and often painfully emphatic about major events and decisions, but that said, is it really necesary for them to make everything painfully obvious to us?

[K1llm1n1on]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

ShdwFox7 wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...

demin8891 wrote...

Summary for those who don't want to read this massive wall of text: Artistic integrity.

I'm glad you liked it, OP. I really am. I'm just incapable of accepting mediocrity and plot holes the size of the Collector Base.

What specifically are your referring to when you say mediocrity? What plot holes do you see?

Big clue this guy is trolling folks

No.  It isn't.

Are you serious? They just asked what the plot holes were. Even the people who like the ending know their is plot holes. Just to name off a few: 1) how did our squad mates on earth end up on the Normandy? 2) Why was Joker near a relay rather than fighting in the battle? 3) Why does the M-6 Carnfix have infinite ammo? 4) Why did Anderson (being an Admiral)  follow Shepard into the beam? The list goes on, and on, and on...

If I tell you I'm not trolling will you deem it acceptable to engage in conversation with me?

If you disagree with me say why, don't try to erode the validity of my motivations.

[Heather Cline]

I disagree with you that it was a good ending to the game. I support that you liked it but I cannot agree with you or anyone else who likes the ending. It was full of plot holes. We had no real choice in how to stop the Reapers. In fact the space AI kid was using circular logic and circular logic is defeatable, destroyable and easily broken.

In the end it was character assassination of Shepard, the assassination of the entire ME universe as a whole. It was also a blatant rip off of the Deus Ex Machina game.

Modifié par Heather Cline, 27 mars 2012 - 05:52 .

[FemmeShep]

OP is okay with an ending that favored symbolism over continuity/reality/substance.

[Sunnie]

Huge wall of text... not sure what it said, but there was lots of, text.
Bottom line is this. Most Mass Effect fans do not like the end, some do. The usual "vocal minority" now appears to be a "vocal majority".
If you like the ending, that's fine just go about your life as nothing happened. Just understand that you are indeed in a minority this time around.

Modifié par Sunnie22, 27 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[lillitheris]

K1llm1n1on wrote...
Plot holes certainly are subjective in this case.

No, they're not.

[Cody211282]

lillitheris wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...
Plot holes certainly are subjective in this case.

No, they're not.

This

Saying plot holes are subjective is like saying Stalin was a fun guy to be around and no parainoid in the slitest.

[Adanu]

BWGungan wrote...

I don't need to read the whole OP to know you just have bad taste.

I don't need to read this whole post to know you just don't get it.

[Adanu]

K1llm1n1on wrote...

If I tell you I'm not trolling will you deem it acceptable to engage in conversation with me?

If you disagree with me say why, don't try to erode the validity of my motivations.

Don't bother. liner types around here won't bother listening to you. They will see you as an idiot and insult you or they will 'subtly' tell you that you just aren't very intelligent.

Not worth the headache.

[K1llm1n1on]

James9749 wrote...

I still say, even though people have plenty of good and solid viewpoints, opinions, and hard facts to back it, I just want the OP to watch this video, and tell me to my face, that this is the 16 endings we were promised.

I'm sure that BW would argue that there are at least that many possible permutations of events leading to the end of the game, but it's pretty obvious that there is essentially one ending, with 3 different colors, as has been said.

What I think is problematic is that even though the ultimate outcome is essentially set in stone, the paths leading there are different. It seems like everyone is stuck on the Catalyst Kid scene and afterwards, and if you're looking at only that part of the ending, it's true that there is pretty much one way for that to go.

If you look at events earlier than that (not the ending in the literal sense, but more fairly the "end- game") there are more permutations and choices.

From a pure RP perspective, I would say that at least an ending that results in total failure and reaper victory should have been included, but 16? What is this, a kingdom hearts game or something?

[sargon1986]

[LadyShandara]

I had to scroll through the entire thread to see if anyone else thought that the reason would be "I have booze". Am I wrong in thinking that excessive drinking can help dull the pain and make red, green or blue look like a beautiful rainbow?

[Aslanasadi]

I don't like the endings, they are to similar and bitter in my opinion. Also I believe this "Hero will sacrifice his life at the end" is as much cliché as a "Disney ending". I for myself would have wished there would be an option of a little happier ending. I mean people who prefer the other options can choose them and wouldn't need to chose the happier ending...it's a choice and I miss this choice in the end of a really wonderful game. But that's my personal opinion and I have no problem when you like the endings. We shouldn't argue about it anyway. Everybody has the right of his/her own enjoyment, we are all different and have different tastes. I just wished people would respect that more.

[K1llm1n1on]

James9749 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

James9749 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

My words would essentially boil down to the same as yours. "I'm right, you're wrong. Ad infinitum, ad nasuseum." Aka we can agree that we disagree.

I can't know that I'm right because I wasn't on the developement team.  I am, however, confident in my arguments and the in-game evidence I back them up with.  But yes, if you want to simply agree to disagree, that's what we'll do.

Take this to a private message war. I want to get to the OP, but I can't through all of this hate-trash from both of you.

So discuss the ending in a private message because you want to talk to the OP personally on a public forum.  What?

There you go again. Off topic. I want the OP to watch this video (because I can't show him the video otherwise) and then I want him to answer this question. Why did I hate the endings? Watch the video and see why.

James, I've seen the vid, and I take it that you hate the ending for the reasons laid out there. I got it.
I've actually commented on that vid in response to someone else who linked to it. I hear you, but don't expect that it makes your view better or more defensible than any other- it's all speculative and a matter of interpretation.
It also assumes that the writers completely forgot their own story and lore when they made the ending because they don't literally illustrate every single event and step in the process that leads to the outcome shown.

So to me it boils down to the notion that it is unacceptable that BW expects you to connect the dots based on what you know of the series, because if it doesn't spell everything out it means they abandoned their own work or couldn't figure out how to end the game.

Is this more likely than that they abbreviated portions of the ending for pacing, expecting that after so many years getting familiar with the franchise, people could read between the lines and get a snappy, cinematic finale?

[K1llm1n1on]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

Pro-tip: Leave this forum for now.Many here seem to think that they are in some kind of real war, and anyone who disagrees with them is the enemy.

Yeah, the tension is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Just the same, I'll stick around for a bit- there is some legit converation happening among the skirmishes.

[ZoharContact]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Welcome, Zohar. *hugs* You are not alone. Care to join our therapy threads? Some people have coped by creating their own personal endings (head-canons); a few of which have been posted here.

• If you're interested, this thread adds a fourth option: refuse, and the consequences thereof.
• This (very VERY long) thread covers the possibility that the entire ending might be one long dream/indoctrination sequence. Well worth the read, even though Bioware's statements at this point seem to hint that it's not true.
• The very last mob you fight, a Marauder who's been re-christened Marauder Shields, has been turned into a folk hero who was just trying to keep Shepard from the bad endings. A comic series has been created around him and is turning into its own epic version of the ending. I highly recommend the story.
• Annnnd, nothing to do with the campaign to change the ending, but other people are coping via humor. This thread is filled with (de)motivational posters created from screenshots from the game.

Just for the record, Bioware has stated that, "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April." (Many are guessing that it has something to do with the PAX convention, which would make it April 6-8, but nothing has been confirmed for sure. Also, please don't get your hopes up too much. Several Twitter posts made since then seem to indicate that Bioware doesn't plan to change the ending, merely 'clarify and add closure'. Aka: sounds a heck of a lot like we're getting a wordier version of the current ending.  

Thanks for the therapy. The Marauder Shields comic is amazing. Thought provoking, even. Also, I was considering indoctrination before I even saw the ending. The ending actually disproved it for me. Shepard had been in several areas where indoctrination was present, or seemed to be, such as the base on Virmire or the dead reaper orbiting the brown dwarf. When I saw how the child's death emotionally affected Shepard, I considered the idea that the aforementioned exposure was beginning to take its toll (what with the reapers on Earth and broadcasting their "signals" or "shrieks of the damned" or "what have you"), and predicted that the story would take a turn where you would have to acknowledge and somehow prevail against indoctrination in a slow and painstaking process.

But in my view, Bioware never went down that road. The Illusive Man gives her a strong dose at the end, but that's the "brute force" style of indoctrination, which does little more than render the subject into a rambling mess and marginally useful shock trooper. To say that it all comes to a head in the last few minutes and gives us a satisfactory explanation for the current ending is wishful thinking.

As for the supposed improvements to the ending that are on their way, I believe that, given the time, Bioware will give us an ending we can appreciate. Dragon Age-style epilogue entries would probably leave me satisfied (being a Bioware fangirl, I can accept and rationalize a lot), though I hold a faint, infintesimal hope that we'll get an ending that makes sense, and some satisfying CG and voice acting. More likely, it's too far gone at this point, since removing the deus ex machina would require a retcon removing the Crucible as a solution from the game. Obviously, that is not possible.

[K1llm1n1on]

cutegigi wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...

The "That is what they promised" part I take issue with. Game devs are famous for over-promising on upcoming projects- Todd Howard, Peter Molyneaux, Muzyka, etc. Do you believe politicians' promises? They'll say anything to get you to support them.

Well, ME3 is a product that consumer need to buy.
What was advertised better be same with the final product.
Wouldnt you be angry when you buy one bucket of ice cream on the basis of promised content writen on the label/advertisement but the product inside the bucket is not what they promised? 

as for politician, they all can go to hell for all I care. I dont want to say the same to Bioware...

I usually don't make purchase decisions based on the promises of the makers of any product. I look at other things they've made that I've used or owned and get information on the nature and performance of a product from others who have it.

You got excited by the game company's hyping of their own product and then blame them for duping you? Who's fault is that, if that's the case?

Also, apart from the controversial ending, the game is solid, so purely from a contracts perspective you got what you paid for. When you buy something you are not guaranteed happiness, only that something is functional. This is especially true with creative media (entertainment, movies, music, etc.) If you purchase a music album and it works but you hate it, you can't hold the record company or band liable. You can only make that case if the album is actually defective, the audio files corrupted or the cd not working. The same is true in this case.

[K1llm1n1on]

Cody211282 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...
Plot holes certainly are subjective in this case.

No, they're not.

This

Saying plot holes are subjective is like saying Stalin was a fun guy to be around and no parainoid in the slitest.

The notion that there are plot holes is subjective.

[wantedman dan]

mbr.to wrote...

the ending is masterfully done like the rest of the game
it leaves a deep emotional impact

Besides the plot holes, circular logic, and contradictions.

[FemmeShep]

I would actually argue, the ending leaves you with no emotion at all. It's why it's so awful.

In the end, it completely detaches the player from any kind of emotion. Not even failure, anger, or sorrow. Because, the ending is about the Reapers and their plot, not about Shepard and her plot. It takes away his/her freewill and has Shepard be nothing but a puppet for the Reapers solution.

[K1llm1n1on]

SouzaNZ wrote...

"Lucas attempts to explain his newly minted bowel movement as bold! And extreme! Stylistic!" - Plinkett's 70 minute video review of The Phantom Menace. Part 7

Hiding under the banner of artistic integrity doesn't magically make your art any better. Terrible artists with integrity will produce terrible art.

Your aphorism is hollow.

[K1llm1n1on]

aliengmr1 wrote...

Why would BW create only one ending that a majority doesn't like? You like your mystery, great, I have no problem with that. But why the one ending? Why not 2? or 3? Why not make as many people happy as possible? Ohh right, that would be deep. Better just to upset people than make them happy. Who wanted to be happy at the end of ME3.

I see the ending as just plain stupid. I did NOT want to know the Reapers motives. Reusing Sovereign's dialog would have been enough. That was axed in favor of space-god-kid. Now instead of a menacing unknowable force, the Reapers are universal landscape technicians. Then I'm given a choice between shooting a tube, grabbing something that vapes me, and jumping into light, which vapes me. Stupid. All the plot-holes were discussed so I won't go there.

Did I understand the meaning behind the endings? Yep. still stupid. Reapers are dead, great. But all the characters I actually cared about are dead or dying. Unless I make the decision to do the Reapers job for them and alter the DNA of every living thing in the galaxy, thus making Shep become what I hated most in the galaxy...a Reaper. From the moment My Shep boarded the Normandy as a spectre I embraced the diversity. I got on Pressly's case about it and disliked Ashley from the start. Yet I threw out all that for a green ending that has no basis in science at all. And the grand payoff after 3 games? getting vaped and a galactic dark age... YAY. Did Shep get a good-bye from Tali? Nope. Did anyone even acknowledge Shep's absence? Nope. I finished ME3 and was asked to BUY DLC. Yay payoff.

See why I'm pissed? Shep got nothing for his trouble, except a dialog from 2 people I couldn't care less about. There are people who like this ending and those who don't. No convincing either side really.

Well, I suppose BW should have asked you and every single other fan what would make them happy before they decided on the ending, then. It's only reasonable, no?