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Why I'm ok with Mass Effect 3's ending


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#251
K1llm1n1on

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t_skwerl wrote...

All I want is this; Shep lives, Reapers die, relays do not explode, reunion with squadmates, galaxy's various races win the war. This is not a happy ending. The sacrifices made to get here are too numerous to mention. It's not all fluffy bunnies and sunshine. The losses from the Citadel itself alone are just mind-boggling.

I want to win the game and feel some sense of victory. As it stands now, I don't.

OK, so you want the bad guys to go away and nothing at all to change in the world. Maybe there should be a scene of the team on the beach at the end, in swimsuits, holding drinks with little umbrellas in them.

This is one of the things that gets me about some of the people ragging on the ending: they accuse BW of ignoring the meaning of their own work (the plotholes criticism) but by the same token are completely OK with a victory with no cost to the galaxy....

#252
sw04ca

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Nice post, OP. I agree with you about the emotional impact of the game.

#253
K1llm1n1on

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vandoug wrote...

Like the OP, I enjoyed the ending as well. If you agree that the main course of ME trilogy is about how Shepard finds out the Reaper threat, strives along the way, and finally ends the 50000 year civilization extinction cycle, then you probably agree that the endings in ME3 are not so bad. 

My understandings is that BW tries to employ the war assets rating mechanism to reflect the decisions and choices players made along the course, and then in turn, contribute to the ultimate endings.

I've noticed the typical  complains about the endings include the following points:

1. The endings negate players efforts. Decisions and choices made by players do not mater in the end.

This probably is true if you are expecting all your efforts lead to a fairy tale ending, and you are only satisfied by a "happy ending". A side note, the choices I'm talking about here refer to those before the final mission. The final three choices provided in the end are BW's version of possible solutions to the crisis. Your choices and efforts affect weather the 3 colored endings are executed  well or badly via the war asset rating mechanism.

2. The 3 endings are basically the same just in different colors. The mass relays are destroyed no matter which ending you choose.

Visually, it's true that the 3 ending sequences are just color-coded same one.  But conceptually and theoretically, they're completely distinct from each others. And It's supposed to give players a hard time to choose from. 

Many people think the mass relay destruction will destroy the host star system as shown in Arrival. But I've heard people talking about "controlled destruction", which is not that devastated. I think destroying a mass relay with an asteroid can be quite different from destruction caused by energy charge. The sequence showing London survived the shockwave implys it. I think the destruction is a reasonable and acceptable price to pay for such an epic feat - ending the 50000 year civilization extinction cycle.  Such an epic feat demands such a great price. I can imagine younger civilizations away from mass relays may have better chances than the older ones to preserve. Giving some time (less than 50000 years), civilizations across the galaxy will reconnect themselves by any means for sure.

3.  No closures whatsoever.

I think BW tries to explain the logic behind the plot via the Catalyst's mouth, and constrain the possible solutions so they can execute the endings. It may not be the best idea, but the endings do tell/imply how the crisis is ended, whether humanity is preserved, and what Shepard's final fate is.  It is the most important closure in this regard. it may be better to just add a little bit more content regarding teammates'  fate without losing focus. 

4.  Plot holes. The logic and motivation behind the Reapers is not sound enough.

If you're talking about the foundation logic behind the plot, then it's not just about the ending but the whole series. I agree some plots seem to be a bit off, which BW should execute more clearly. 

To me, the current ending implemented by BW is not a perfect but an enjoyable one.

One improvement to the ending I can think of is to add a conditioned Peace/Coexistence option, and color-code it in white. This option should be raised by Shepard rather than by the Catalyst. Doing so allows Shepard to challenge the godchild's mindset, and prove his theory about chaos is unsound as creators and "createes" do not necessarily have inherent  fundamental contradictions. Peace between quarian and geth is a good example.  This option perfectly fits Shepard's character - a warrior against fate. And of course, it has to have something to do with the Crucible since it's the critical tool to end the cycle. That's where the condition part can fit in.

I don't enjoy the plot holes. I enjoyed the visual effects, the views, the music, the voice acting, the gameplay and the ride of emotions. 

My favorite moment in the ending is when I watched my Shepard drawing a breath under the rubble in the final sequence. I said to myself: Come on, Shepard! You deserve to join in the celebration, the reunion, the huging, the crying and the laughing...

Nicely argued.
I'm pretty much with you, and I definitely feel that there could have been a catastrophic "bad" ending. I'm just not prepared to say that the game is crap, or even that the ending is crap, because it didn't end the way I wanted it to. I think it's cool that it didn't end the way I wanted it to.

Not so sure about Shepard positing an option to the Catalyst Kid, though. I feel like it's important that Shepherd not have too much wiggle room at that point in the story.

There could have been other options presented before that point, but I feel like you should have no choice but to play ball once you're before the Catalyst. There should have been a path where Shepherd could choose not to activate the catalyst, but destroy it. Then again, that point would have had to happen before Shep actually learned what the Crucible was (unless he were secretly carrying a micro-nuke when he got to the crucible).

Nonetheless, I'm sure most of us can think of thinge we would have liked to see happen. I just don't think that it's fair to say the whole thing is garbage based on that.

#254
K1llm1n1on

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Sunnie22 wrote...

Huge wall of text... not sure what it said, but there was lots of, text.
Bottom line is this. Most Mass Effect fans do not like the end, some do. The usual "vocal minority" now appears to be a "vocal majority".
If you like the ending, that's fine just go about your life as nothing happened. Just understand that you are indeed in a minority this time around.


You could have read it to find out what it said.

You don't want to wast the time to read my OP, don't waste my time by making me read your opinion. How can you comment on something that you haven't read?

#255
K1llm1n1on

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wantedman dan wrote...

mbr.to wrote...

the ending is masterfully done like the rest of the game
it leaves a deep emotional impact


Besides the plot holes, circular logic, and contradictions.

Plot holes which are only such if you can't connect the dots based on the plot and lore of the series, circular logic only if you don't understand the Cycles as cumulative and not circular, contradictions- here you'd have to be more specific for me to get where you're coming from.

#256
K1llm1n1on

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FemmeShep wrote...

OP is okay with an ending that favored symbolism over continuity/reality/substance.

There certainly is symbolism in the ending, but there is also continuity, reality and substance.
If you can't see that you either didn't really understand the ending or you're just dismissing it because you didn't like the ending.

Continuity is a huge part of the ending. The whole point of breaking the reaper vs. organics cycle is to ensure continuity of life in the universe.

If you're talking about plotline continuity, you can easily resolve it by reading between the lines of the events in the ending, no mental gymnastics required.

The ending is replete with reality and substance if you consider what it means, even if you're looking at the different endings. Eventhough the actual events are quite similar, the context and meaning of those events is drastically different in each version of the ending.

You loved the games enough to see them through to the end, then participate in the forums. Why can't you do a little work on your end to understand what the story is getting at? Why does the story have to be spoon fed in ordr to be acceptable?

#257
sveners

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 I am happy for you OP! Also quite envious :pinched:

All I left with after the ending was a depressed feeling. The universe was plunged into a dark age no matter what. The characters I cared about for 3 games, and that actually includes Al-Jilani... are stranded, dead or missing. From what I know. 

I honestly don't play videogames to feel awful. When I saw the epilogue (set 10000 years in the future) all I felt was dismay. I don't enjoy grimdark. I get enough depressing news from other media. Life is a **** and then you die. Lovely.

I should have stopped at ME1, or maybe 2. At least then the deep emotional impact would be of a positive sort. And I could enjoy them again and again. What's the point of playing the series, or DLC, when you know this is what you will get at the end?

I do get it. The cycle is broken. No more Reapers every 50k years. Most likely. Their Guiding Hand... the relays are gone. The universe is once more left to it's own devices. The survivors have a chance to rebuild and never fear the reaper. It is a lasting legacy for Shepard. To me, that's not enough.
My thoughts of course. Glad we're not all alike :)

Modifié par sveners, 27 mars 2012 - 09:03 .


#258
Uriko128

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Truth is the so-called plotholes are quite trivial and they are absolutly not important enough to make the ending bad. The ending is "bad" because it's very tragical and there are a lot of people who simply can't stand that. I can, so I like the ending.

#259
jumpingkaede

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K1llm1n1on wrote...

This is one of the things that gets me about some of the people ragging on the ending: they accuse BW of ignoring the meaning of their own work (the plotholes criticism) but by the same token are completely OK with a victory with no cost to the galaxy....


Brb complete extermination of Batarians, millions of lives lost on Earth, Palaven, and Thessia, and death of Thane, Mordin, Legion, etc. = no cost to the galaxy.

You know what would be "no cost to the galaxy"?  If you pushed a magic button and took control of the Reapers and made them fly away forever and ever.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 27 mars 2012 - 10:00 .


#260
K1llm1n1on

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sveners wrote...

 I am happy for you OP! Also quite envious :pinched:

All I left with after the ending was a depressed feeling. The universe was plunged into a dark age no matter what. The characters I cared about for 3 games, and that actually includes Al-Jilani... are stranded, dead or missing. From what I know. 

I honestly don't play videogames to feel awful. When I saw the epilogue (set 10000 years in the future) all I felt was dismay. I don't enjoy grimdark. I get enough depressing news from other media. Life is a **** and then you die. Lovely.

I should have stopped at ME1, or maybe 2. At least then the deep emotional impact would be of a positive sort. And I could enjoy them again and again. What's the point of playing the series, or DLC, when you know this is what you will get at the end?

I do get it. The cycle is broken. No more Reapers every 50k years. Most likely. Their Guiding Hand... the relays are gone. The universe is once more left to it's own devices. The survivors have a chance to rebuild and never fear the reaper. It is a lasting legacy for Shepard. To me, that's not enough.
My thoughts of course. Glad we're not all alike :)


I hear you- I feel pretty similarly. But I'm also still fired up. I still want to know what happens next.

Definitely get that there are enough downers out there, but I always knew the end would be rough.

#261
K1llm1n1on

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jumpingkaede wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...

This is one of the things that gets me about some of the people ragging on the ending: they accuse BW of ignoring the meaning of their own work (the plotholes criticism) but by the same token are completely OK with a victory with no cost to the galaxy....


Brb complete extermination of Batarians, millions of lives lost on Earth, Palaven, and Thessia, and death of Thane, Mordin, Legion, etc. = no cost to the galaxy.

You know what would be "no cost to the galaxy"?  If you pushed a magic button and took control of the Reapers and made them fly away forever and ever.

Sucks that you see it that way, but what can ya do?

I was including Mordin, the Batarians, etc. in what you quoted. I'm saying that I find it odd that people unhappy with the ending because they say it makes no sense appear quite willing to accept an ending where the Reapers are defeated and everybody else just gets to go back to their own business. I wouldn't buy it that Mordin, Legion, etc., dying, are enough to give up to end the total existential threat to the universe posed by the Reapers. I think the level of upheaval caused by the Crucible is appropriate.

I'm also not stuck on the viability of the galaxy without the mass relays. They are not essential to the ME universe in my view.

People could be a bit more open minded about a series they've been excited about for so long.

#262
AlexXIV

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demin8891 wrote...

Summary for those who don't want to read this massive wall of text: Artistic integrity.

I'm glad you liked it, OP. I really am. I'm just incapable of accepting mediocrity and plot holes the size of the Collector Base.

My summary would be differnt but I probably would be banned (again) for personal attacks.

#263
Fail_Inc

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I'm glad you enjoy the endings OP and to be honest I can live with them... if there were more options.

When you think about it, this is the end for Shepard (and his crew) that we laughed, cried and care about for many years. You'll not see them again as big characters,the most they can do is cameos on the other titles. Why don't we get a "rainbows&unicorns" ending or another one where Reapers destroy everything?

I expected more from Bioware, I expected a better ending than "Push Button, Receive Bacon" or Deus Ex /HR v2. Especially after playing Tuchanka. It was so easy to screw Tuchanka missions but they wrote it so well I expected so much more from the last mission.

Now get in the line and help us receive more endings! (more endings that you might enjoy! :D)

#264
Shepard108278

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Omilophile wrote...

We don't necessarily want snapshots of the team at a club. We want an ending that make sense.

It does IMO.

#265
K1llm1n1on

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Fail_Inc wrote...

I'm glad you enjoy the endings OP and to be honest I can live with them... if there were more options.

When you think about it, this is the end for Shepard (and his crew) that we laughed, cried and care about for many years. You'll not see them again as big characters,the most they can do is cameos on the other titles. Why don't we get a "rainbows&unicorns" ending or another one where Reapers destroy everything?

I expected more from Bioware, I expected a better ending than "Push Button, Receive Bacon" or Deus Ex /HR v2. Especially after playing Tuchanka. It was so easy to screw Tuchanka missions but they wrote it so well I expected so much more from the last mission.

Now get in the line and help us receive more endings! (more endings that you might enjoy! :D)

I do think there should be more endings, but I'm OK with the one that's already there.

#266
K1llm1n1on

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Shepard108278 wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

We don't necessarily want snapshots of the team at a club. We want an ending that make sense.

It does IMO.

It does make sense! It's really not that complicated.
If people don't like it it's OK to just say so. Trying to add weight to their preferential statements by citing an obtuse interpretation of the ending just makes it look like they didn't understand it.

My Shepherd looks like a Puerto Rican Marine from the early nineties. Why? Because he came out that way. I'm not going to try to justify it by saying that I was using his appearance to make a statement about the race or identity politics of the future!:o