265 réponses à ce sujet

[Sirakou]

I still cannot wrap my head around everyone saying the relay should have supernova'd. Yes, that happens when you smash an asteroid into it. But when a signal gets sent out from the Citadel, same "unknown" type of technology, its not going to react the same way.

If you smash a battery with a hammer, its going to be bad and messy. Dispose of battery properly, much more contained reaction. Why can't the same thing happen here?

[Vromrig]

Sirakou wrote...

I still cannot wrap my head around everyone saying the relay should have supernova'd. Yes, that happens when you smash an asteroid into it. But when a signal gets sent out from the Citadel, same "unknown" type of technology, its not going to react the same way.

If you smash a battery with a hammer, its going to be bad and messy. Dispose of battery properly, much more contained reaction. Why can't the same thing happen here?

Presumably because disposal of battery does not involve shooting energy into battery, causing cataclysmic explosion.

[heathxxx]

Vromrig wrote...

Already addressed major plot holes.

Likely to be ignored.

Then there was this one job, we grabbed him, ripped his head off, then... *garbled interference in recording* ...down his neck.

Real tough break that was. I kept his gun though.

[Cheviot]

Vromrig wrote...

Sirakou wrote...

I still cannot wrap my head around everyone saying the relay should have supernova'd. Yes, that happens when you smash an asteroid into it. But when a signal gets sent out from the Citadel, same "unknown" type of technology, its not going to react the same way.

If you smash a battery with a hammer, its going to be bad and messy. Dispose of battery properly, much more contained reaction. Why can't the same thing happen here?

Presumably because disposal of battery does not involve shooting energy into battery, causing cataclysmic explosion.

An explosion that is distributed across the relay network, something that did not happen in Arrival.

[K1llm1n1on]

wantedman dan wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Two words condensed into an acronym: DLC.

Destroys your arguments about Artistic Integrity.

How so?

If they did not want to alter their work, they would not provide extra content that... altered their work.

DLC is pretty standard for major releases, though,  but usually it's used to expand on games, which, although literally and alteration of the work, is usually more for adding to work.
One of the things I'm skeptical about with this game's ending is the notion that they might have left the ending open- ended as a way of bumping up dlc purchases, which is different.

[SandSkorpion]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

SandSkorpion wrote...

The OP likes the ending..yet the majority of you want to convince him that it is bad? You want to tear the game down for him because you're upset with it? You feel that because you're unhappy everyone else must be to? That's pathetic.

Arguing on a public forum is pathetic now? 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Arguing over the Internet has ALWAYS been Pathetic. Hold old are you? lol.

aliengmr1 wrote...

Dramatic? OP is free to stop discussing at any point.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

No where near as Dramatic as the majority of posters here are being over the ending of a video game. Can't say that the artistic direction the developers steered the game towards invoked negative emotions...because it has been well been established on THESE forums that this game is not art and that artistic integrity does not apply.

I bet all of you 100 credits that if the endings where just how you imagined them...you'd all be singing praises on how artistic and moving this game was. You all are so upset with the ending that you are nitpicking every detail of the game..pointing out every inconsistency and making a fuss about it. It's ridiculous. There was a post earlier today about someone who fell into depression because of the ending. Other's post that video gaming has been ruined for them. Now THAT's dramatic.

Modifié par SandSkorpion, 27 mars 2012 - 12:28 .

[DJBare]

Cheviot wrote...
An explosion that is distributed across the relay network, something that did not happen in Arrival.

The explosion does not transfer to the relays, energy transfers to the relays then the citadel explodes right after the energy transference.

[Elishiaila]

K1llm1n1on wrote...

It’s been two days and I’m still thinking about the game. I
haven’t been affected by a game this deeply since I was a teenager. I didn’t
even think it was possible. I’ve had dreams about it. My wife and I have been
talking about it for hours at a time.

I think we can ask how good / how bad the ending is. There are two perfectly valid perspectives.

Look at most other games, and if we would see a similar ending in any game by any studio other than Bioware, we would celebrate how original it is, and it would be legendary. If Blizzard, Bethesda, etc. would offer only half this good ending we would praise them for this.

But Bioware promised meaningful choices, that make real and visible difference in outcome. That promise isn't fulfilled. So in essence Bioware lied to us. It makes them wrong quickly. But we also feel how careful Bioware were before when they tried to make sure we have a world that makes sense. There are small issues, but generally speaking it is "best in class". SciFi games and many other RPG games you can play on the computer aren't this good.

Hey, even pen and paper RPGs like D&D, Vampire: The Masquearade have more flaws than most of the game. Yet, the ending in its 5 minutes has more issues than all other parts of the trilogy combined. Yet in most cases it would be a single issue, we could forget and forgive.

But BioWare spent months saying how we will have influence over the ending. And they lied. They lied and now when we tell them to deliver what they have promised they speak about artistic freedom. They speak about how people who didn't care about this promise say they can have artistic freedom, and how there are people who don't want them to fulfill their promise. The act like they have moral higher ground when in essence they lied to customers. Which is illegal and immoral.

But as you spoke about green ending, let me add one more thing to show how bad they are. They spoke about game modes, and said people who focus on story will have an easy time in combat. For a green ending you need galactic readyness, so you need multiplayer, where if you are bad at shooters you will have pretty hard time, and you will be ashamed for dragging down others. Is it in spirit of narrative mode? 

As you see if you try to compensate, it is possible with spectre packs. But you would need multiplayer for credits, so you have to buy them with Bioware points.

So they have promised a game friendly for your gaming style, where you can focus on your decisions, where your decisions will make important changes in story and ending.

Instead of this: You have a game where you have to play multiplayer shooter (which you hate), if you don't want to be ashamed you should pay extra, and yet your decisions won't make any important changes in the end.

And what they do? After they lied and scammed us out of money, they try to paint us bad, by recruiting people who depend on income from EA to defend them. They try to get the FPS crowd, or people who don't care about decisions disagree with us by saying it is their game. They ignore how fans feel, they only paint fans bad. When they have wronged fans first. And when what they have done is illegal.

MInd if I ask, are you happy with that behavior too? 

[Twisted and Mean]

As was mentioned numerous times before, if someone takes your money, promising to draw your portrait and draws a pink pony instead, that's not artistic integrity, that's just some one screwing you up. Promising 16 different endings and giving three colour-coded ones with little sense and an ass-pulled plot device is practically the same.

You may totally adore the ending, but it has nothing to do with why other people are upset with it.

Modifié par Twisted and Mean, 27 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Cheviot wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Cheviot wrote...


The energy that would've created the supernovas was, in this case, distributed along the Mass Effect corridors to help the order from the Crucible pass from relay to relay and stop the galaxy from blowing up.  You can see this in how the pattern started by the Crucible is repeated by the relays: it releases a shockwave that does whatever Shepard has chosen; a narrower beam is fired at the nearest relay; the Crucible falls apart.  If the galaxy was blown up, then you'd have to explain why the crew of the Normandy survived, and also how life survived long enough for the post-credits bit.  And also that "Shepard breath" scene.

Speculation.



From everyone. 

I argued using evidence presented in the ending.  The idea that systems would be destroyed ignores this evidence.

You speculated on some barebones facts. 

I could speculate too. 

Energy is sent to Mass Relays. Signal is sent to reciever. There's enough energy left to cause the Relay to explode. Normandy is fleeing the blast, it is causing a fair bit of damage to the ship. Precedence established by Arrival DLC. Large shockwave from Relay is seen from outside the galaxy. Therefore the Relay has gone supernova. Scene after credits from a system not linked to a Relay. 

That's some more speculation, remember. 

I didn't argue that you weren't right, just that whatever interpretation you think up will invariably be based on a whole lot of speculation. Whether the Relays go supernova or not is up in the air, hence why it is a plot hole. 

[K1llm1n1on]

SandSkorpion wrote...

Zhen-Lin wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

We don't necessarily want snapshots of the team at a club. We want an ending that make sense.

Hi, Omiloohiile, See the icon under the man who started this topic? He only has ME3. And he is telling us that he played through ME from the first game. How can he played through all of them if he doesn't even own ME1 and ME2? Because he is a bioware employee, he is here to making excuse for their poor ending and try to rally some support. Therefore, it is really no need for us to respond his non-sense. Keep this top cold.

Great post OP. My experience with the game/endings were very similar to yours. Don't expect much support from these forums because they're full of people like the one I quoted in bold above.

Zhen-Lin: Good job jumping to conclusions...you fail to realize that not everyone needs to sign up and register their games TO PLAY the game. I have ME on steam, ME2 on PS3 and their not badged on my profile...SO WHAT.

You should not be taken seriously in any posts you make.

Thanks!
Yeah, I've been in similar positions regarding issues in other games before, so I know how tough it is to actually have a good dialogue.

[K1llm1n1on]

Anaki86 wrote...

Interesting post OP. Very colorful, indeed. As everyone here is saying, you can find the plot holes all over the forum as well as the internet. However, they are more nit picks that actual plot holes. I wouldn't worry about it.

Glad you liked the game.

<_<

[The Night Mammoth]

SandSkorpion wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

SandSkorpion wrote...

The OP likes the ending..yet the majority of you want to convince him that it is bad? You want to tear the game down for him because you're upset with it? You feel that because you're unhappy everyone else must be to? That's pathetic.

Arguing on a public forum is pathetic now? 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Arguing over the Internet has ALWAYS been Pathetic. Hold old are you? lol.

Old enough to know why this is called a forum. 

Old enough to laugh at people who tell others it's wrong to argue on a forum, whilst using words like 'pathetic', bolding words in upper case to highlight a point, insulting people, responding to criticism, on the internet, on a forum, dedicated to a videogame. 

The Crow calls the Raven Black. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 27 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[Electric Pig]

Ugrh i'm so bored of these.

The plot holes and lack of closure need to be seen too.

The less you care about mass effect the more you like the ending.

blah blah blah whatever, your entitled to your opinion (your wrong opinion)

[wantedman dan]

K1llm1n1on wrote...

DLC is pretty standard for major releases, though,  but usually it's used to expand on games, which, although literally and alteration of the work, is usually more for adding to work.

Argumentum ad populum logical fallacy. It doesn't matter if the story is simply expounded upon--the work is still being altered. The integrity of their artistic work falls as they add or subtract content, no matter the context.

One of the things I'm skeptical about with this game's ending is the notion that they might have left the ending open- ended as a way of bumping up dlc purchases, which is different.

They're toeing a fine line between unethical and downright price gouging by intentionally withholding an ending as that speculation notes. No matter what their decision was, they've gotten themselves into a nasty PR mess they--and the community--will not soon forget.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 27 mars 2012 - 12:35 .

[Tony208]

I guess this is your way of accepting it. And you're giving the writers too much credit.

[Orumon]

I disagree with everything you said, but I respect that you enjoyed the ending. Most of us, however, don't, for an array of compelling reasons.

[Hashbeth]

I am glad you liked it.
I won't try to take that away from you by pointing out the numerous plot holes, shoddy writing, abrupt thematic changes, etc. Instead, enjoy your ending

[K1llm1n1on]

Devil Mingy wrote...

To each his own, OP. I'm happy you like them, and I mean that. I do not agree, though. I won't state my reasons here, simply because I'm not really adding anything unique that won't be found in the other topics. My grievances are pretty common.

However, I will add one thing.

The Mass Relay exploding thing, they show the relays getting
surrounded by some kind of energy before they are destroyed. It's pretty
clear that this is containing the force of their explosion to protect
nearby systems.

It wasn't made clear enough, because I sure as hell didn't pick up on it. In fact, the colored waves seems pretty far spread to me. Given how the rest of the game (and the entire series) has never been particularly subtle with key points, and I find it hard to believe they'd start at the last 10 minutes. It's one of the reasons why I don't believe in the Indoctrination Theory and have a hard time trying to perceive the endings as abstract and figurative. At best, it clashes with the tone of everything that came before it. At worst, it muddles the story in an incoherent haze at the worst possible time.

You know, you actually hit on something that kind of helps me clear up my own thoughts a bit about the ending.

You're totally right that the games in general heve been pretty blatant about getting major points across, to the point of being painfully so for me.
With the ending, things get really ambiguous and subtle. I went theough it twice, just to clear things up a bit.
Mind you, I liked it, and it was clear enough for me to make sense of, but the method of presentation was a departure from the way things unfold elsewhere in the series.

[Elishiaila]

Twisted and Mean wrote...

As was mentioned numerous times before, if someone takes your money, promising to draw your portrait and draws a pink pony instead, that's not artistic integrity, that's just some one screwing you up. Promising 16 different endings and giving three colour-coded ones with little sense and an ass-pulled plot device is practically the same.

You may totally adore the ending, but it has nothing to do with why other people are upset with it.

Sadly the ending isn't the only issue. Multiplayer is the other one.

[K1llm1n1on]

Vromrig wrote...

Plot holes rather simple:

Inconsistent story revelation. Reaper testimony inconsistent with testimony of Star Child.

Shepard's attire inconsistent with blast. But more importantly, communication also inconsistent.

Characters state no one making it to pillar of light. Comment on your death even as you are walking.

Characters not on Normandy, on Normandy.

Anderson ahead of you, despite claiming to follow behind you.

No explanation given for Catalyst or Crucible.

I don't know, these seem rather nit- picky..

[fle6isnow]

Electric Pig wrote...

Ugrh i'm so bored of these.

The plot holes and lack of closure need to be seen too.

The less you care about mass effect the more you like the ending.

blah blah blah whatever, your entitled to your opinion (your wrong opinion)

And I'm so bored of statements like yours.

Sigh, this is precisely why people don't like to post about liking the ending. We get so much hate, and so many assumptions are made about our intelligence, character, and how much of a fan we really are. Oh, you're not a REAL fan! Oh, you don't care about the ME universe! Oh, you're just trying to suck Bioware's wang! Oh, you're just delusional and trying to like a bad ending! Oh, no one smart could like all the plot holes! Oh, your opinion is wrong!

Thankfully in my ending thread (see sig) there wasn't this much vitriol, but... <_<

OP, I'm glad you liked the ending. I liked the ending too, for reasons that are somewhat overlapping with yours.

[Fliprot]

Zhen-Lin wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

We don't necessarily want snapshots of the team at a club. We want an ending that make sense.

Hi, Omiloohiile, See the icon under the man who started this topic? He only has ME3. And he is telling us that he played through ME from the first game. How can he played through all of them if he doesn't even own ME1 and ME2? Because he is a bioware employee, he is here to making excuse for their poor ending and try to rally some support. Therefore, it is really no need for us to respond his non-sense. Keep this top cold.

Not saying you're wrong, but I own DA:O DA2 and ME2 and 3, but I could only register ME3 because my other BW games are preowned.

[The Night Mammoth]

Opsrbest wrote...
I know people think thats bad writing but it really isn't. Maybe people don't like fatalism and determinism in writing but that's neither here nor there for how ME3 ends.

It's bad writing when the reader has to explain more of the ending than the author does. It's bad writing when there are three dozen pretty large plot holes. It's bad writing when your premise is abandoned in the last five minutes. It's bad writing when you introduce a new character in the last five minutes. It's bad writing when said character is the story's main villain. It's bad writing when the villain then has the faulty logc to explain his motivations. It's bad writing when your protagonist takes a back seat and lets others drive the plot. It's bad writing when around a dozen characters suddenly think differently to how they should. It's bad writing when you build a plot around the classical story outline most others have and abaondon it at the finale. It's bad writing when there isn't any post-conclusion epilogue. It's bad writing when the story preceeding doesn't support the outcome in any way. It's bad writing when you refuse to offer any story and character resolution when it is expected. It's bad writing when you end a trilogy on a cliffhanger.